Green Panic

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

24 minutes ago, lippy said:

And apparently, the topic at hand is right-wing propaganda disguised as science.  

Hi lippy,

I suppose that this is then left-wing propaganda:  Meeting 1.5 degree temperature target is unlikely, study finds : NPR

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,915]

2 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi lippy,

I suppose that this is then left-wing propaganda:  Meeting 1.5 degree temperature target is unlikely, study finds : NPR

Jerry Baumchen

We all know that even without the NPR story. We keep skydiving anyway.

[brenthutch 384]

1 hour ago, lippy said:

And apparently, the topic at hand is right-wing propaganda disguised as science.  

So the Wall Street Journal is right-wing propaganda?

[lippy 773]

55 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

So the Wall Street Journal is right-wing propaganda?

YOU posted a link to a right-wing propaganda page.  That link made reference to an opinion piece in the WSG...I'm not gonna waste any more of my time with this; it's funner to just laugh at the crap that you post rather than engage with you playing a never-ending game of "oh yeah, but if you look at it through this angle I'm kinda right, which makes you wrong"

[jakee 1,257]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Now seven and three respectively. BTW just because I make smart financial decisions doesn’t make me a jerk.  I sacrificed a lot in the earlier stages of my career in order to set me up for success later in life. Others who did not have the foresight and the discipline to do so as well, have revealed themselves with their snarky responses and jealousy.

Right, so your point is that all those power companies should have just built their renewable projects ten years ago when investment was cheap and easy?

[olofscience 422]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Others who did not have the foresight and the discipline to do so as well, have revealed themselves with their snarky responses and jealousy.

You think that was jealousy?

I was actually surprised you had a mortgage, I thought with all your bragging you should have owned them outright. The "whoosh" was the point going over your head.

Anyway, power companies having trouble with surging inflation and interest rates are on a much bigger scale than an unknown boomer who thinks they have foresight and discipline for getting their 15 year fixed rate mortgage. They can't freeze their employees' salaries and ignore inflation rates, and they can't always freeze the price of the stuff they buy in either.

And finally, all of that has nothing to do with the energy being renewable.

[olofscience 422]

3 hours ago, Slim King said:

He was smart enough to think ahead.

Same with you, right? Hopefully you got your car on finance when rates were low.

[brenthutch 384]

3 hours ago, olofscience said:

You think that was jealousy?

I was actually surprised you had a mortgage, I thought with all your bragging you should have owned them outright. The "whoosh" was the point going over your head.

 

With rates that low it makes more sense to put more money into other investments with a higher rate of return than to pay off mortgages early, especially given the tax deduction on mortgage interest.The “whoosh” you heard was it going over your head.

Edited October 31, 2023 by brenthutch

[olofscience 422]

13 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

With rates that low it makes more sense to put more money into other investments with a higher rate of return than to pay off mortgages early.  The “whoosh” you heard was it going over your head.

Lol, I couldn't care less how you allocated your limited funds, the more limited they are, the more one has to prioritise to get the highest return with the lowest expenditure - of course.

Again my point is - the power companies' costs like salaries and materials went up with inflation - could they have frozen those costs like you've done with your mortgage?

[Phil1111 911]

8 hours ago, lippy said:

YOU posted a link to a right-wing propaganda page.  That link made reference to an opinion piece in the WSG...I'm not gonna waste any more of my time with this; it's funner to just laugh at the crap that you post rather than engage with you playing a never-ending game of "oh yeah, but if you look at it through this angle I'm kinda right, which makes you wrong"

Everything you mention touches on John's concept of trolling and upon more reflection I agree with him more.

[brenthutch 384]

Let’s get back on topic 

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/mid-atlantic/-rsted-gives-up-on-new-jersey-wind-projects
 

“Offshore wind developer Ørsted said it is pulling out of its Ocean Wind 1 and Ocean Wind 2 projects off New Jersey, citing escalated financial difficulties and supply chain issues.”

Looks like another one bites the dust.

[olofscience 422]

13 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Looks like another one bites the dust.

There will probably be another bankruptcy next week: WeWork: Shares plunge after reports say firm is filing for bankruptcy

Interest rates, huh? At least Ørsted isn't going bankrupt.

Edited November 2, 2023 by olofscience

[brenthutch 384]

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/tesla-shares-plummet-amid-concerns-of-dwindling-ev-demand-93CH-3218217

“Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA)'s stock has taken a sharp downturn, losing nearly 20% in value over the past two weeks, marking a significant blow to the electric vehicle (EV) sector. This steep decline was triggered by Tesla's own revised growth expectations announced during its third-quarter earnings call on October 18, which saw the company's shares drop over 17%, wiping out approximately $130 billion from its market cap…escalating costs, falling prices, rising interest rates, and a tapering demand as contributing factors to this value destruction.”

Look on the bright side guys, at least we won’t be missing those windmills to power EVs nobody’s buying.

Edited November 2, 2023 by brenthutch

[wmw999 2,123]

It’s hard to plan for the long term when every single step in between is seen as individually important. I don’t like this focus on quarterly results by all and sundry; never have. It’s trends that matter more of the time, not individual data points. Several data points make a trend, yes, but if it were all about data points, no one would ever go through chemo for cancer, because you’d feel worse before (possibly) feeling better

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 384]

25 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

It’s hard to plan for the long term when every single step in between is seen as individually important. I don’t like this focus on quarterly results by all and sundry; never have. It’s trends that matter more of the time, not individual data points. Several data points make a trend, yes, but if it were all about data points, no one would ever go through chemo for cancer, because you’d feel worse before (possibly) feeling better

Wendy P. 

Wendy, I never get tired of your analogies.

[brenthutch 384]

15 hours ago, olofscience said:

There will probably be another bankruptcy next week: WeWork: Shares plunge after reports say firm is filing for bankruptcy

Interest rates, huh? At least Ørsted isn't going bankrupt.

High interest rates are in response to high inflation brought on by the massive spending and printing of money post pandemic. Enterprises that are less viable (renewable energy and EVs) will have a more difficult time in this new reality.

[olofscience 422]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

High interest rates are in response to high inflation brought on by the massive spending and printing of money post pandemic. Enterprises that are less viable (renewable energy and EVs) will have a more difficult time in this new reality.

Nah, you've been saying that since BEFORE the pandemic. According to you Tesla should have been bankrupt by now.

 

You can't really give a good reason why they're less viable as businesses, you can just point to examples but can't give the underlying reason except that you hate renewables and EVs.

 

You're not an engineer or a businessman (not anymore, at least). You know nothing about them, really. You even keep calling wind turbines "windmills" when they don't mill any flour.

Here's a prediction: like any industry, renewables and EVs will have good years, and bad years. During the good years you'll be silent, during the bad years you'll be "Ha!". (Not really silent though - you'll find another topic to "own" the libs for).

But no matter how many times you think you've been proven right, you''ll still get angrier and angrier, and keep posting more baiting articles (google searching "sneaky fucker peterson" anyone?) because what you really need is not being proven right

[brenthutch 384]

19 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Nah, you've been saying that since BEFORE the pandemic. According to you Tesla should have been bankrupt by now.

 

You can't really give a good reason why they're less viable as businesses, you can just point to example after example but can't give the underlying reason except that you hate renewables and EVs.

I’ve been saying that for more than a decade now.   I don’t “hate” renewables and EVs. The problem I have, is the massive amount taxpayer dollars being wasted on them. If they could complete in the free market without eye watering levels of government support I would be fine with them but they can’t. 

With “peak oil” nowhere in sight and the climate cataclysm failing to materialize, they are a very expensive solution to a non problem.  
 

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”  H. L. Mencken

[normiss 622]

3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I’ve been saying that for more than a decade now.   I don’t “hate” renewables and EVs. The problem I have, is the massive amount taxpayer dollars being wasted on them. If they could complete in the free market without eye watering levels of government support I would be fine with them but they can’t. 

With “peak oil” nowhere in sight and the climate cataclysm failing to materialize, they are a very expensive solution to a non problem.  
 

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”  H. L. Mencken

While ignoring the $20 BILLION (and increasing) US annual fossil fuels subsidies. 

[brenthutch 384]

31 minutes ago, normiss said:

While ignoring the $20 BILLION (and increasing) US annual fossil fuels subsidies. 

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/fossil-fuels/renewable-energy-still-dominates-energy-subsidies-in-fy-2022/#:~:text=Renewable subsidies more than doubled,(both in 2022 dollars).

“Renewable subsidies more than doubled between FY 2016 and FY 2022, increasing to $15.6 billion in fiscal year 2022 from $7.4 billion in fiscal year 2016 (both in 2022 dollars). Federal subsidies and incentives to support renewable energy in fiscal year 2022 were almost 5 times higher than those for fossil energy”

“A study by the University of Texas projected that U.S. energy subsidies per megawatt hour in 2019 would be $0.5 for coal, $1- $2 for oil and natural gas, $15- $57 for wind and $43- $320 for solar”

Looks like the smart money is on coal 

Edited November 3, 2023 by brenthutch

[olofscience 422]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I don’t “hate” renewables and EVs. The problem I have, is the massive amount taxpayer dollars being wasted on them. If they could complete in the free market without eye watering levels of government support I would be fine with them but they can’t. 

Bullshit, you railed against the grid-scale lithium battery in Australia, when it turned out it was neither renewable (backing up a coal plant) nor subsidised (actually VERY profitable).

As for "Institute for Energy Research" - a propaganda organization - they use dishonest methods for calculating subsidies.

According to Nature, (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02847-2)

Quote

Each year, governments around the world pour around half a trillion dollars into artificially lowering the price of fossil fuels — more than triple what renewables receive.

Triple.

 

No, not an ounce of complaint from you about that, because that's not really the issue. You're lying to us, and to yourself.

[olofscience 422]

Fossil fuels received £20bn more UK support than renewables since 2015

Quote

In 2020, renewable energy support was greater than fossil fuel support for the first time. However, fossil fuels have been receiving greater additional investment recently. From 2020 to 2021 they received an extra £1bn support from the government compared with 2020, a 10.7% increase. For renewable energy in the same year, total support for projects increased by just £1m, or 0.01%.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/09/fossil-fuels-more-support-uk-than-renewables-since-2015

[brenthutch 384]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Bullshit, you railed against the grid-scale lithium battery in Australia, when it turned out it was neither renewable (backing up a coal plant) nor subsidised (actually VERY profitable).

As for "Institute for Energy Research" - a propaganda organization - they use dishonest methods for calculating subsidies.

According to Nature, (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02847-2)

Triple.

 

No, not an ounce of complaint from you about that, because that's not really the issue. You're lying to us, and to yourself.

Nature is a far left eco-extremist rag and it’s paywalled.  Pretty sure they didn’t do an analysis on a per kilowatt hour basis.  All thing being equal, if fossil fuels produced five times the energy of renewables they should get five times the subsidies.  But all things aren’t equal now are they?

[olofscience 422]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

they should get five times the subsidies

What, didn't you say that if they were viable businesses, they shouldn't get any subsidies at all?

[billvon 2,402]

7 minutes ago, olofscience said:

What, didn't you say that if they were viable businesses, they shouldn't get any subsidies at all?

Only businesses that support his political agenda should get any subsidies at all, of course!  I mean, that's Troll 101.