EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[ryoder 1,384]

7 minutes ago, normiss said:

On a personal note, I will ALWAYS regret selling that 66 Fastback I restored/modded. Damn. What a car.

I still have fond memories of my 1970 Boss 302.

[johnhking1 70]

1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Are you serious? 

I think the "gearhead" crowd is a bit smaller than it used to be,  but they're still there. 

Muscle cars are too expensive,  so, as kids have always done, they get what they can afford and work with what they have.  

I agree, the gearhead crowd is smaller, that is what I meant to infer.

[billvon 2,400]

15 hours ago, johnhking1 said:

And they probably have no idea how to.

They do indeed, and are better than ever at it.  Nowadays it's called tuning, and involves (among other things) reprogramming the ECU to remove manufacturer limits.

It's worth noting that older hotrodders not only have no idea how to do this, they scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster.

Quick introduction to this:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/ecu-and-efi-101-a-beginners-guide-to-performance-tuning/

[kleggo 138]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

They do indeed, and are better than ever at it.  Nowadays it's called tuning, and involves (among other things) reprogramming the ECU to remove manufacturer limits.

It's worth noting that older hotrodders not only have no idea how to do this, they scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster.

Quick introduction to this:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/ecu-and-efi-101-a-beginners-guide-to-performance-tuning/

i'm an older hotrodder and "do not scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster."

The performance improvements kinda fall onto two sides of the razor

1) Hardware only for those cars that were carbueurated and had no control SW.

2) SW tunes for all else (and to take advantage of HW improvements)

I do know how to utilize SW tunes to improve performance. I pay a SME to write a new file that I apply !

[kleggo 138]

17 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Mossgreen Metallic.

85 S2 Euro if you know what that means.

I do know it means 2 valve / cylinder heads, but don't know all the details of the "euro spec) engine. Enjoy your shark

[normiss 622]

10 minutes ago, kleggo said:

i'm an older hotrodder and "do not scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster."

The performance improvements kinda fall onto two sides of the razor

1) Hardware only for those cars that were carbueurated and had no control SW.

2) SW tunes for all else (and to take advantage of HW improvements)

I do know how to utilize SW tunes to improve performance. I pay a SME to write a new file that I apply !

You should look at the fuel injection units that replace carbs, and the tuning you can do with electronics on them.

My new to me 91 F150 5.0 V-8 EFI also has some very interesting options to hopping it up. I'm having fun with another restoration project.

A friend of mine is a diesel tech for Ford, with tuning alone he can take a factory 5.8 TDI motor sitting at ~440 HP and tune it to over 600. Not under warranty of course.

I also use tuning software and improved hardware to get my Harley up to a more enjoyable level of performance. Skymama doesn't like the price of these toys sometimes.  So she got a new car.  

 

[billvon 2,400]

54 minutes ago, kleggo said:

i'm an older hotrodder and "do not scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster."

Sorry that was too broad a brush there.  Yeah, I've met more than a few older guys who were tuners and had a remarkable grasp of what's going on.  One guy I met actually pulls EPROMs out of old ECU's, reads them, disassambles the code, tweaks it, then recompiles it and tries it.  That's a long toolchain, and requires very intimate understanding both of software and the ECU itself.

[normiss 622]

41 minutes ago, billvon said:

Sorry that was too broad a brush there.  Yeah, I've met more than a few older guys who were tuners and had a remarkable grasp of what's going on.  One guy I met actually pulls EPROMs out of old ECU's, reads them, disassambles the code, tweaks it, then recompiles it and tries it.  That's a long toolchain, and requires very intimate understanding both of software and the ECU itself.

Some of us have had a career in tech/IT/computer science, yet grew up becoming motor heads thanks to our fathers.

Riding around with a laptop in my saddle bag to collect the tune data has perplexed a few friends.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 hours ago, kleggo said:

I do know it means 2 valve / cylinder heads, but don't know all the details of the "euro spec) engine. Enjoy your shark

Technically the 2nd version of the S. 

Last of the 16v (2 per cylinder), but with electronic ignition and fuel injection.  

Rated at 310 hp, but in reality produced more.

The 1st 32v (4 per cylinder) in the 85 US model was rated at 288.

It's cool as all hell. 

The pic is on Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay.

In 2014 I took my mom on a road trip to see my sisters out in Oakland. 

From Wisconsin. 

It's a REALLY cool car.

[Stumpy 256]

15 hours ago, billvon said:

They do indeed, and are better than ever at it.  Nowadays it's called tuning, and involves (among other things) reprogramming the ECU to remove manufacturer limits.

It's worth noting that older hotrodders not only have no idea how to do this, they scoff at the idea that software could make a car faster.

Quick introduction to this:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/ecu-and-efi-101-a-beginners-guide-to-performance-tuning/

I've just put a new map on my mx5 (miata) engine in my lotus 7 replica that has liberated about 25HP. Crazy how easy it is, and on a car weighing less than half a tonne, that makes quite a difference

 

[brenthutch 383]

“Tesla CEO Elon Musk underscored the near-term struggles, warning last week of a sharp slowdown in sales growth this year. With margins falling amid price cuts, shareholders erased $80 billion from Tesla's stock valuation the following day.”

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/industry-pain-abounds-electric-car-demand-hits-slowdown-2024-01-30/

[brenthutch 383]

18 hours ago, billvon said:

Sorry that was too broad a brush there.  Yeah, I've met more than a few older guys who were tuners and had a remarkable grasp of what's going on.  One guy I met actually pulls EPROMs out of old ECU's, reads them, disassambles the code, tweaks it, then recompiles it and tries it.  That's a long toolchain, and requires very intimate understanding both of software and the ECU itself.

Went on an airboat ride in Florida last year and a the owner told me how he remapped the ECU to get better performance out of the Chevy truck engine on his airboat. He went from headers and 4 barrel carburetors to fuel injectors, computer chips and laptops. Old dogs can indeed learn new tricks.

[brenthutch 383]

The good news with hybrid sales, however, comes as EV sales suffered in January, with all-electric sales down 10.9% year over year to 4,674 units. The loss of federal EV tax credits for the Mustang Mach-E, colder weather, concerns over range, and higher interest rates likely hurt EV sales to start the year.

Ford has had to revamp its EV gameplan, pushing out investments in the space and cutting production for models like the Lightning EV pickup.

“Last month, sales of the Subaru Solterra amounted to just 379 cars, down 24% year-over-year. That's not even 1% of the brand's total volume.”

Down 10.0% down 24%? Doesn’t look good for the much ballyhooed great EV transition.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-sales-jump-in-january-topping-toyotas-but-ev-growth-stalls-154124233.html

Edited February 5 by brenthutch

[billvon 2,400]

Been watching Facebook discussions about EVs lately.  A few observations:

One is that you can now play Boomer Bingo with all the reasons why "EVs will never work" - the same memes keep coming up over and over.

A cool development is that I've seen several anti-EVers post comments along the lines of "I have a hybrid which is perfectly fine - NO REASON for EV's!"  That, of course, is a change of tune from 20 years ago when the comments were "I have a gas car which is perfectly fine - NO REASON for hybrids!"  

In another 20 years the antis will be saying "Look, I have an EV that's perfectly fine - NO REASON for hydrogen cars!"

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Been watching Facebook discussions about EVs lately.  A few observations:

One is that you can now play Boomer Bingo with all the reasons why "EVs will never work" - the same memes keep coming up over and over.

A cool development is that I've seen several anti-EVers post comments along the lines of "I have a hybrid which is perfectly fine - NO REASON for EV's!"  That, of course, is a change of tune from 20 years ago when the comments were "I have a gas car which is perfectly fine - NO REASON for hybrids!"  

In another 20 years the antis will be saying "Look, I have an EV that's perfectly fine - NO REASON for hydrogen cars!"

Cars that don’t make noise are kinda boring. But then again a good ICE car is pretty quiet these days as well. I’m all for radial engines.

[billvon 2,400]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Cars that don’t make noise are kinda boring. But then again a good ICE car is pretty quiet these days as well. I’m all for radial engines.

Gas turbines are fun.

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Gas turbines are fun.

They certainly are, but they don't sound cool. Just loud.

[kallend 1,623]

9 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Cars that don’t make noise are kinda boring. But then again a good ICE car is pretty quiet these days as well. I’m all for radial engines.

V-12 RR Merlins sound cool.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/merlin-engined-rolls-royce-phantom-ii-for-sale/46649

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

16 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Cars that don’t make noise are kinda boring. But then again a good ICE car is pretty quiet these days as well. I’m all for radial engines.

EVs make some cool noises.

Mine sounds like a UFO at slow speeds.
There are speakers that emit noise to scare blind people because the electric drive is so quiet.

The Amazon Rivian vans sound very similar.

OTOH, my 928 has a very 'old school' V-8 rumble to it. 

And my motorcycle has a 'high revving inline 4' sound. 

Both have standard mufflers, so they aren't 'loud for the sake of being loud', but when I get on the throttle, both of them make some fun sounds.

[billvon 2,400]

A Chinese/Volkswagen venture has launched the first car with sodium ion batteries in China.  It's a small hatchback with a 157 mile range that uses no lithium or cobalt.

This isn't a great car, and it wouldn't get much traction here.  But this DOES mean that sodium batteries will now be getting real world trials, and the demand for more Na+ batteries will drive innovation in that space.

Keep in mind that the first lithium ion battery car - the Leaf, released in 2009 - had a 70 mile range.  Now lithium ion cars have 300-400 mile ranges.  If we see anything close to that progression here, it will become a serious challenger to NMC, NCA and LFP - the current lithium chemistries.

https://www.engadget.com/the-first-ev-with-a-lithium-free-sodium-battery-hits-the-road-in-january-214828536.html

[lippy 771]

8 hours ago, billvon said:

A Chinese/Volkswagen venture has launched the first car with sodium ion batteries in China.  It's a small hatchback with a 157 mile range that uses no lithium or cobalt.

This isn't a great car, and it wouldn't get much traction here.  But this DOES mean that sodium batteries will now be getting real world trials, and the demand for more Na+ batteries will drive innovation in that space.

Keep in mind that the first lithium ion battery car - the Leaf, released in 2009 - had a 70 mile range.  Now lithium ion cars have 300-400 mile ranges.  If we see anything close to that progression here, it will become a serious challenger to NMC, NCA and LFP - the current lithium chemistries.

https://www.engadget.com/the-first-ev-with-a-lithium-free-sodium-battery-hits-the-road-in-january-214828536.html

Sodium ion?!?!?!  Guess you don't give a fuck about the poor children working in the salt mines...You won't be so smug when half the country is growing goiters because their iodized salt was taken away in service of your virtue signalling, and the other half is sitting here eating bland-ass potato chips!

[Phil1111 911]

On 2/17/2024 at 5:22 PM, gowlerk said:

Cars that don’t make noise are kinda boring. But then again a good ICE car is pretty quiet these days as well. I’m all for radial engines.

Agree, radial engines all the way. Perhaps a background seven channel stereo in every vehicle with a radial starting up. A Beechcraft 18, 450 hp pratt for the economy cars. A Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp in real cars.

[kallend 1,623]

55 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

Agree, radial engines all the way. Perhaps a background seven channel stereo in every vehicle with a radial starting up. A Beechcraft 18, 450 hp pratt for the economy cars. A Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp in real cars.

A RR Griffon or Napier Sabre (3500HP) might actually fit.  We know a Merlin does.

Edited February 19 by kallend

[normiss 622]

An Australian Rotec R2800 works quite well. 110 HP and 160 ft lbs of torque. 

Looks very comfy too.  

[gowlerk 1,912]

28 minutes ago, kallend said:

A RR Griffon or Napier Sabre (3500HP) might actually fit.  We know a Merlin does.

Alright, for the Anglophiles we will use RR. They were better than the Allisons and more practical than the round engines for cars because they are liquid cooled.