EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[brenthutch 383]

7 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Government incentives only make the momentum faster, and we need it - 2023 just broke all records as the hottest year in history.

 

Hottest year since the 1880’s. It was warmer during the Roman Climate Optimum.

(funny that name, today we call it the modern climate cataclysm)

[olofscience 421]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Hottest year since the 1880’s. It was warmer during the Roman Climate Optimum.

(funny that name, today we call it the modern climate cataclysm)

"Estimates of the temperature of the Northern Hemisphere more broadly during the Roman Warm Period put average temperatures more around the average temperature of the period between 1960-1990 (e.g., Ljungqvist 2010), so significantly warmer than the periods before and after it, but still cooler than today and less consistently warm than the last few decades (e.g., Luterbacher et al, 2016)."

 

Then we have: "Not even going to break the top five" - Brenthutch, early 2023

[normiss 622]

15 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Calling billvon, what is a "solid state battery" and is there any possibility of this happening on the stated timetable?

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-roll-out-solid-state-battery-evs-couple-years-india-executive-says-2024-01-11/#:~:text="We will be rolling out,expectancy will be very good".

In January 2024, Volkswagen announced that test results of a prototype solid-state battery retained 95% of its capacity after driving 500,000 km.

[gowlerk 1,912]

4 minutes ago, olofscience said:

"Estimates of the temperature of the Northern Hemisphere more broadly during the Roman Warm Period put average temperatures more around the average temperature of the period between 1960-1990 (e.g., Ljungqvist 2010), so significantly warmer than the periods before and after it, but still cooler than today and less consistently warm than the last few decades (e.g., Luterbacher et al, 2016)."

 

Then we have: "Not even going to break the top five" - Brenthutch, early 2023

The "Roman Warm Period" was a regional, not global event. It did not result in glaciers disappearing around the world and sea level rise. Citing it here is just another "Red Herring". And I'm sure that if BH is posting this nonsense it merely means that it is the currently circulating talking point on the denier web world circuit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Warm_Period

[gowlerk 1,912]

2 minutes ago, normiss said:

In January 2024, Volkswagen announced that test results of a prototype solid-state battery retained 95% of its capacity after driving 500,000 km.

I've been looking at articles about it. Sounds promising but all the companies talking about it are saying production in a few years. Which to me means that they haven't really worked out practical processes to make them yet.

[brenthutch 383]

https://www.scienceunderattack.com/blog/2020/12/28/new-evidence-that-the-ancient-climate-was-warmer-than-todays-68
 

One study demonstrates that the period known as the Roman Warming was the warmest in the last 2,000 years. The other study provides evidence that it was just as warm up to 6,000 years ago. Both studies reinforce the occurrence of an even warmer period immediately following the end of the last ice age 11,000 years ago, known as the Holocene Thermal Maximum.

[brenthutch 383]

Thought experiment: what if EV adoption fails to reach critical mass? For charging stations to be viable (profitable) there has to be millions of EVs on the road and EVs will not be adapted en masse until there are hundreds of thousands of charging stations. A bit of a catch 22 don’t you think?

Still waiting on Lippy 

[wmw999 2,122]

33 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

https://www.scienceunderattack.com/blog/2020/12/28/new-evidence-that-the-ancient-climate-was-warmer-than-todays-68
 

One study demonstrates that the period known as the Roman Warming was the warmest in the last 2,000 years. The other study provides evidence that it was just as warm up to 6,000 years ago. Both studies reinforce the occurrence of an even warmer period immediately following the end of the last ice age 11,000 years ago, known as the Holocene Thermal Maximum.

Quote from the abstract:

Quote

 This record comparison consistently shows the Roman as the warmest period of the last 2 kyr, about 2 °C warmer than average values for the late centuries for the Sicily and Western Mediterranean regions. 

For the Sicily and Western Mediterranean regions.

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 383]

Just now, wmw999 said:

Quote from the abstract:

For the Sicily and Western Mediterranean regions.

Wendy P.

If sea levels are a proxy for global temperature, it must have been warmer in the past, as there are former coastal cities that are now many miles inland today.

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

For the Sicily and Western Mediterranean regions.

Don't be silly Wendy.

If it was cold somewhere in the past, that region was just having some cold weather.  Don't you libs know the difference between climate and weather?!?!?!!!

If it was warm somewhere in the past, then it was warm everywhere, probably.  I mean just use some common sense.

If it is cold today somewhere, it's probably cold everywhere.  I mean, use some common sense.

If it is warm somewhere these days. then that region was just having some warm weather.  Don't you libs know the difference between climate and weather?!?!?!!!

(Happy birthday BTW)

[tkhayes 126]

18 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Show me

reread the thread.  

[brenthutch 383]

3 hours ago, tkhayes said:

reread the thread.  

I did and didn’t find anything to refute “at least half” of my claims.

1 cost more than the equivalent ICE vehicle 

2 deprecate faster 

3 take longer charge than a gas vehicle takes to fill up 

4 lack of sufficient charging stations 

5 cost more to insure 

6 poor cold weather performance 

7 range is less than the equivalent ICE vehicle 

8 poor towing performance

9 greater tire wear 

10 weigh more putting stress on infrastructure 

11 more costly to repair 

12 requires more natural resources 

13 more difficult to extinguish an EV fire

14 60% of grid energy comes from fossil fuel 

Most of these points are backed up by links on my posts.

Instead of spending billions on cajoling an unwilling public, why don’t we go back to the drawing board develop the technology to the point where it can compete in the marketplace. 

Edited January 19 by brenthutch

[kallend 1,623]

It was cold in Chicago last week.  Global Warming must have ended in 2023.

[tkhayes 126]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I did and didn’t find anything to refute “at least half” of my claims.

1 cost more than the equivalent ICE vehicle 

2 deprecate faster 

3 take longer charge than a gas vehicle takes to fill up 

4 lack of sufficient charging stations 

5 cost more to insure 

6 poor cold weather performance 

7 range is less than the equivalent ICE vehicle 

8 poor towing performance

9 greater tire wear 

10 weigh more putting stress on infrastructure 

11 more costly to repair 

12 requires more natural resources 

13 more difficult to extinguish an EV fire

14 80% of grid energy comes from fossil fuel 

Most of these points are backed up by links on my posts.

Instead of spending billions on cajoling an unwilling public, why don’t we go back to the drawing board develop the technology to the point where it can compete in the marketplace. 

U.S. Electricity Grid & Markets | US EPA - 14 is false.  not only false, but PATENTLY false.  I am not going to banter back and forth with you again when i have already.

how about this.... READ MY POSTS that replied to yours when you made a claim and I shot the flying fuck out of them.....

Half of your claims do not actually matter - nitpicky points (again and again and again like a broken record) and have little to do with making an argument against EVs.  more tire wear?  Seriously?  You are actually using that as an argument against EVs?  I missed your posts about tire wear regarding truckers and 4 wheel drives and your ongoing continuous assaults against them because, well, you know..... tire wear!

it's no wonder no one takes you seriously - but here you are, regurgitating again.  Every reference that you posted from whatever site it was that was against EVs, I found articles on the same site PROMOTING EVs.

And you have yet to acknowledge a single stat or reference that I posted for any sort of validity and acknowledge that the articles/stats/data even exist.

[gowlerk 1,912]

38 minutes ago, kallend said:

It was cold in Chicago last week.  Global Warming must have ended in 2023.

I drove around it twice last week. I was thinking of you enjoying the snow.

[brenthutch 383]

40 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

U.S. Electricity Grid & Markets | US EPA - 14 is false.  not only false, but PATENTLY false.  I am not going to banter back and forth with you again when i have already.

 

Fixed it for you.

[Stumpy 256]

1 hour ago, tkhayes said:

U.S. Electricity Grid & Markets | US EPA - 14 is false.  not only false, but PATENTLY false.  I am not going to banter back and forth with you again when i have already.

how about this.... READ MY POSTS that replied to yours when you made a claim and I shot the flying fuck out of them.....

Half of your claims do not actually matter - nitpicky points (again and again and again like a broken record) and have little to do with making an argument against EVs.  more tire wear?  Seriously?  You are actually using that as an argument against EVs?  I missed your posts about tire wear regarding truckers and 4 wheel drives and your ongoing continuous assaults against them because, well, you know..... tire wear!

it's no wonder no one takes you seriously - but here you are, regurgitating again.  Every reference that you posted from whatever site it was that was against EVs, I found articles on the same site PROMOTING EVs.

And you have yet to acknowledge a single stat or reference that I posted for any sort of validity and acknowledge that the articles/stats/data even exist.

I mute the trolls so I'm not responding to brent directly, but the "Equivalent ICE vehicle" thing is an interesting one.
My right hand man at work has an EV. Its a cheap family hatchback that does 0-60 faster than most supercars. There isn't an equivalent ICE car. For similar money, most ICE cars 0-60 times are measured in days.

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, tkhayes said:

And you have yet to acknowledge a single stat or reference that I posted for any sort of validity and acknowledge that the articles/stats/data even exist.

That way he angers the most possible people.

[ryoder 1,384]

Those new-fangled horseless carriages still don't work as well as a horse in the winter. They need to make improvements before they are ready for the mass market.

 

[SkyDekker 1,122]

20 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I've been looking at articles about it. Sounds promising but all the companies talking about it are saying production in a few years. Which to me means that they haven't really worked out practical processes to make them yet.

By that time maybe we'll have nuclear batteries that outlast the lifecycle of the car without requiring a charge:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/china-introduces-revolutionary-nuclear-battery-that-lasts-50-years-without-charging/articleshow/106880627.cms?from=mdr

[gowlerk 1,912]

3 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

By that time maybe we'll have nuclear batteries that outlast the lifecycle of the car without requiring a charge:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/china-introduces-revolutionary-nuclear-battery-that-lasts-50-years-without-charging/articleshow/106880627.cms?from=mdr

And cold fusion too. 

Edited January 19 by gowlerk

[SkyDekker 1,122]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

And cold fusion too. BTW, that link is nothing but a bunch of spam unless you are a subscriber.

Here is another one, or just google Betavolt a Chinese company which claims to have developed a nuclear battery that can power a cellphone for 50 years without charging.

https://insideevs.com/news/704871/china-betavolt-atomic-energy-battery/

[winsor 186]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

And cold fusion too. 

Yoyodyne should have their Oscillation Overthruster in production soon.

"The Future Begins Tomorrow!"

[kallend 1,623]

5 hours ago, gowlerk said:

I drove around it twice last week. I was thinking of you enjoying the snow.

Enjoying it so much we're off to Rwanda and Tanzania next week, to see some gorillas, lions and elephants.

[billvon 2,400]

4 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Here is another one, or just google Betavolt a Chinese company which claims to have developed a nuclear battery that can power a cellphone for 50 years without charging.

100 microwatts isn't enough to power a cellphone.  If they can get it to a watt it can - but that's a few years off, if they can do it at all.  I have doubts due to the physics of the problem.