EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[brenthutch 383]

7 hours ago, tkhayes said:

Iseecars is not any sort of a research body.  They are a car search engine and that is pretty much all they claim to be. https://www.iseecars.com/about-us/.

I can probably find supporting data from any number of pro EV or other auto websites that also do not do research.  But why would I?

Well you wouldn’t because you couldn’t.

I just want folks to be fully informed before they try to catch a falling knife. 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

8 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Well you wouldn’t because you couldn’t.

I just want folks to be fully informed before they try to catch a falling knife. 

Sure you do, salt of the earth and friend of Libtards that you are. You actually are clueless about investments and how you make return. Regardless of what your detractors here claim you are correct about depreciation as pertains to certain cars bought from time to time. But that's the thing: time. Your argument is about today +/- 100 years. Others argue about longer time frames. You think our nation is in denouement because a few thousand workers cross our southern border each year, for example. I wonder wether my descendants will have Indian or Chinese last names. If you truly were capable of teaching anyone anything you wouldn't be shooting your wad here. Just sayin'.

[winsor 186]

14 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

They could put it on rails to make it more efficient....

That has been the bulk of my experience with electric transportation.  The idea of trying to replace personal ice vehicles across the board with electric versions is "eine Schlimmverbesserung" (doesn't work well auf englisch...).

[tkhayes 126]

12 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Well you wouldn’t because you couldn’t.

I just want folks to be fully informed before they try to catch a falling knife. 

iseecars actually has several pro EV articles as well - you appear to have been unable to find them

https://www.iseecars.com/ev-dealers-study - more places to buy EVs

https://www.iseecars.com/car-affordability-study#v=202310 - EV affordability improving

https://www.iseecars.com/used-car-prices-study#v=2023-06 EV Prices dropping

and several other articles about the prices of EVs coming down.  That would seem then to make the economics work better no?

Of course it doesn't.... because afterall YOUR Iseecars data article is the right one and all the other Iseecars articles must be flawed and false.

[brenthutch 383]

1 hour ago, tkhayes said:

iseecars actually has several pro EV articles as well - you appear to have been unable to find them

https://www.iseecars.com/ev-dealers-study - more places to buy EVs

https://www.iseecars.com/car-affordability-study#v=202310 - EV affordability improving

https://www.iseecars.com/used-car-prices-study#v=2023-06 EV Prices dropping

and several other articles about the prices of EVs coming down.  That would seem then to make the economics work better no?

Of course it doesn't.... because afterall YOUR Iseecars data article is the right one and all the other Iseecars articles must be flawed and false.

Inventories are building up, prices are coming down and generating negative income for every one sold, hardly a sustainable business model.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-price-cuts-electric-cars-losing-business-strategy-2023-11#:~:text=The number of cars Tesla,driven out of business%2C either.

Edited January 4 by brenthutch

[JoeWeber 2,299]

21 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Inventories are building up, prices are coming down and generating negative income for every one sold, hardly a sustainable business model.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-price-cuts-electric-cars-losing-business-strategy-2023-11#:~:text=The number of cars Tesla,driven out of business%2C either.

Absolutely, nothing spells ultimate failure in business like building market share.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

That has been the bulk of my experience with electric transportation.  The idea of trying to replace personal ice vehicles across the board with electric versions is "eine Schlimmverbesserung" (doesn't work well auf englisch...).

Ich kenne das als Verschlimmbesserung.

Edited January 4 by SkyDekker

[brenthutch 383]

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Absolutely, nothing spells ultimate failure in business like building market share.

“But that's not what's happening. Lower prices are not translating into higher sales. The number of cars Tesla delivered to customers in the third quarter actually declined. Revenue is dropping, and the company's once fat profit margins are getting squeezed — down to 17.9% in the third quarter, compared with 25.1% a year ago. Competitors aren't being driven out of business, either. Once totally dominant in the EV space, Tesla's share of the US market has fallen from 62% at the beginning of the year to only 50% today.”

[wmw999 2,122]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

That has been the bulk of my experience with electric transportation.  The idea of trying to replace personal ice vehicles across the board with electric versions is "eine Schlimmverbesserung" (doesn't work well auf englisch...).

And ICE cars never fully replaced horses and oxcarts

Wendy P. 

[brenthutch 383]

48 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And ICE cars never fully replaced horses and oxcarts

Wendy P. 

Another bulletproof analogy.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

57 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Revenue is dropping,

Q3 revenue is up 9% YoY. But yes margins fell on deep discounts.

[billvon 2,400]

57 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And ICE cars never fully replaced horses and oxcarts

Wendy P. 

And they never will!   The idea of trying to replace horses with cars for personal transportation is "lengbe'chugh vay'" (in the original Klingon.)

[billvon 2,400]

And if you think that cars can REALLY replace horses - think again.

 

[SethInMI 145]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Once totally dominant in the EV space, Tesla's share of the US market has fallen from 62% at the beginning of the year to only 50% today

This is inevitable. A lot of people just don't want Teslas.  Maybe due to Elon's antics, or just they don't want to be yet another Tesla on the road.  My wife is one of those people, as long as there is another brand that is matching Tesla on price and features, she will go with that.  As more models enter the market, this loss of market share is only going to increase. 

 

[SkyDekker 1,123]

3 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

This is inevitable. A lot of people just don't want Teslas.  Maybe due to Elon's antics, or just they don't want to be yet another Tesla on the road.  My wife is one of those people, as long as there is another brand that is matching Tesla on price and features, she will go with that.  As more models enter the market, this loss of market share is only going to increase. 

 

The model T wasn't groundbreaking at all, just look at what Ford's market share is now compared to then....pff.

[billvon 2,400]

4 minutes ago, SethInMI said:

A lot of people just don't want Teslas.  Maybe due to Elon's antics, or just they don't want to be yet another Tesla on the road.  My wife is one of those people, as long as there is another brand that is matching Tesla on price and features, she will go with that.  As more models enter the market, this loss of market share is only going to increase. 

In addition, Tesla is currently making a huge amount of money on each car they make, so their margins are higher.  Other EV manufacturers will be willing to undercut them to gain market share, and Tesla will lose more ground.  This means cheaper EVs overall.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

In addition, Tesla is currently making a huge amount of money on each car they make, so their margins are higher.  Other EV manufacturers will be willing to undercut them to gain market share, and Tesla will lose more ground.  This means cheaper EVs overall.

Actually, that is the part that has been changing. Tesla has been offering steep discounts to combat this, reducing their margin significantly. Tesla's profit margin is now very much in line with other auto makers.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

1 hour ago, SethInMI said:

This is inevitable. A lot of people just don't want Teslas.  Maybe due to Elon's antics, or just they don't want to be yet another Tesla on the road.  My wife is one of those people, as long as there is another brand that is matching Tesla on price and features, she will go with that.  As more models enter the market, this loss of market share is only going to increase. 

 

I would have love to get a Tesla. But they were priced well above my budget, unless I was willing to go a good bit older and higher mileage than I wanted to.  

Got a nice 2020 Bolt, 16k on it for a bit over $22k out the door. I'll get $4k of that back when I file my taxes in a month or so. 

[JoeWeber 2,299]

25 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I would have love to get a Tesla. But they were priced well above my budget, unless I was willing to go a good bit older and higher mileage than I wanted to.  

Got a nice 2020 Bolt, 16k on it for a bit over $22k out the door. I'll get $4k of that back when I file my taxes in a month or so. 

With a Tesla, though, you get something valuable for your money. For example, who but Elon Musk could afford to buy and kill that odious pox on humanity Twitter? 

[johnhking1 70]

3 hours ago, wmw999 said:

And ICE cars never fully replaced horses and oxcarts

Wendy P. 

I am surrounded by Amish.  They manufacture their own horsepower and there is an Amish buggy shop one mile from me.

The buggies have torsion bar suspension, fiberglass wheels, hydraulic disc brakes, head lights, tail lights, turn signals and rear view mirrors.  Some of them have heaters.

[normiss 622]

11 minutes ago, johnhking1 said:

I am surrounded by Amish.  They manufacture their own horsepower and there is an Amish buggy shop one mile from me.

The buggies have torsion bar suspension, fiberglass wheels, hydraulic disc brakes, head lights, tail lights, turn signals and rear view mirrors.  Some of them have heaters.

I remember seeing them ride them into town on Saturday, park them in a lot where the horses were fed and given water, and the owner went and got his ICE out of a storage garage and ride around town.

[billvon 2,400]

13 minutes ago, johnhking1 said:

I am surrounded by Amish. 

The last message received from Major King before the fateful Battle of the Red Barn.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

9 minutes ago, billvon said:

The last message received from Major King before the fateful Battle of the Red Barn.

Now that is funny!

[tkhayes 126]

5 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Inventories are building up, prices are coming down and generating negative income for every one sold, hardly a sustainable business model.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-price-cuts-electric-cars-losing-business-strategy-2023-11#:~:text=The number of cars Tesla,driven out of business%2C either.

earlier you were complaining that they are not economically viable for the CONSUMER.... now you are saying the problem is that the manufacturers and the dealers are not going to make enough money?  If costs are coming down, then that is good for the consumer.  and the viability of EVs working.  Tesla profits might be down, but they are still very much profitable.....

You do realize surely why we question your abilities to form a rational argument right?  I mean you do surely understand that you have yet to offer any consistent point throughout this entire thread and that is why we continue to question WTF it is that you are on about.... right?

[kallend 1,623]

49 minutes ago, tkhayes said:

earlier you were complaining that they are not economically viable for the CONSUMER.... now you are saying the problem is that the manufacturers and the dealers are not going to make enough money?  If costs are coming down, then that is good for the consumer.  and the viability of EVs working.  Tesla profits might be down, but they are still very much profitable.....

You do realize surely why we question your abilities to form a rational argument right?  I mean you do surely understand that you have yet to offer any consistent point throughout this entire thread and that is why we continue to question WTF it is that you are on about.... right?

Trolls don't need to form rational arguments.  They just need to generate responses.