EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[brenthutch 384]

1 minute ago, olofscience said:

But no expansion plans? They're doing a LOT of expansion plans for EVs. Delayed, as you keep crowing about, but not cancelled.

 

 

Why would they want to expand?  They already have the capacity to meet demand.  They are delayed their EV production as the expected demand has failed to materialize.

[olofscience 422]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

 They are delayed their EV production as the expected demand has failed to materialize.

So what was the expected demand, and by how far did the projections miss by?

 

If you're right, when will they cancel the EV factories?

[kallend 1,626]

2 hours ago, lippy said:

I'm not sure how me calling out his BS == him playing me.  I've got no illusions of changing his mind, but it was a slow news day.  

Trolls just want to generate a response.   It's what validates them.  By responding you encourage more trolling.

 

[gowlerk 1,914]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

But no expansion plans? They're doing a LOT of expansion plans for EVs.

Even more importantly the bulk of R&D is going into EVs. Modern ICEs are pretty impressive compared to not very long ago, but improvements beyond what has been accomplished already are unlikely because there will no longer be enough volume to pay for it. EVs are going to have incremental improvements and of course lowered costs. Time marches forward, a delay is not a step backwards. The future of personal vehicles is clearly BEV for many reasons and carbon emissions are only a part of them. EVs are simply a better technology at this point in time. The only thing holding them back is the massive size of the needed changes to infrastructure. It took several decades for diesel locomotives to completely replace steam power but now steamers are museum pieces. Just like Hemi 'Cudas will be one day. 

[brenthutch 384]

30 minutes ago, kallend said:

Trolls just want to generate a response.   It's what validates them.  By responding you encourage more trolling.

 

If having uncomfortable realities shared makes you upset, you may want to try on some thicker skin.

[Phil1111 911]

18 minutes ago, kallend said:

Trolls just want to generate a response.   It's what validates them.  By responding you encourage more trolling.

 

There is a another side to that thinking. You come from a physical science background. Where facts are facts. Beyond that there is the area of science where theory is not fact but widely believed to be true.

In human psychology small factors which may not be relevant to the equation can develop outsize influence in the reasoning of people. trump and the GOP is a prime example as most republicans just believe that he is the only person to defeat socialist and non-white voters. There are hundreds of millions of Americans who think that way.

Many people refuse to admit that they were wrong as hundreds of millions of republicans have done about trump. IMO  the planet could be a dried out desert and some could still refuse facts. Antarctica completely melted and Florida 1/2 the size it is now. They would talk about how the planet will revert back to ice covered when the last human dies off.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

35 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Even more importantly the bulk of R&D is going into EVs. Modern ICEs are pretty impressive compared to not very long ago, but improvements beyond what has been accomplished already are unlikely because there will no longer be enough volume to pay for it...

...are museum pieces. Just like Hemi 'Cudas will be one day. 

Legit Hemi 'Cudas are 'museum pieces' right now.

Same as Daytona Chargers, "Superbird" Road Runners, Shelby Cobras (both the Mustang & Roadster versions) and a host of other rare cars.

20 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

There is a another side to that thinking. You come from a physical science background. Where facts are facts. Beyond that there is the area of science where theory is not fact but widely believed to be true.

In human psychology small factors which may not be relevant to the equation can develop outsize influence in the reasoning of people. trump and the GOP is a prime example as most republicans just believe that he is the only person to defeat socialist and non-white voters. There are hundreds of millions of Americans who think that way.

Many people refuse to admit that they were wrong as hundreds of millions of republicans have done about trump. IMO  the planet could be a dried out desert and some could still refuse facts. Antarctica completely melted and Florida 1/2 the size it is now. They would talk about how the planet will revert back to ice covered when the last human dies off.

You might want to reexamine your understanding of 'theory'.

It's a heavily tested and proven idea of why & how something happens.

Gravity is a good example. 

Gravity itself is a 'fact'. You leave the airplane and you go down. Period.

But why do you do that?
HOW does the planet pull you towards itself?

THAT is the 'fun' part. There are a couple different, competing theories on how & why. Much of it is fact. Some is speculation and conjecture. 
Prove it and you get a Nobel Prize. 

And I agree with and largely approve of those willing to engage the trolls to combat their propaganda and disinformation. 
Without that, their idiotic claims go unchallenged and some will believe them.

I don't have the discipline and self control to do it without 'crossing lines' and getting into trouble.

So I choose to not engage.

[Phil1111 911]

34 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Legit Hemi 'Cudas are 'museum pieces' right now.

Same as Daytona Chargers, "Superbird" Road Runners, Shelby Cobras (both the Mustang & Roadster versions) and a host of other rare cars.

You might want to reexamine your understanding of 'theory'.

It's a heavily tested and proven idea of why & how something happens.

Gravity is a good example. 

Gravity itself is a 'fact'. You leave the airplane and you go down. Period.

But why do you do that?
HOW does the planet pull you towards itself?

THAT is the 'fun' part. There are a couple different, competing theories on how & why. Much of it is fact. Some is speculation and conjecture. 
Prove it and you get a Nobel Prize. 

And I agree with and largely approve of those willing to engage the trolls to combat their propaganda and disinformation. 
Without that, their idiotic claims go unchallenged and some will believe them.

I don't have the discipline and self control to do it without 'crossing lines' and getting into trouble.

So I choose to not engage.

This may help: What's the Difference Between a Fact, a Hypothesis, a Theory, and a Law in Science?

It uses the example of gravity.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Phil1111

[normiss 622]

2 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Legit Hemi 'Cudas are 'museum pieces' right now.

Same as Daytona Chargers, "Superbird" Road Runners, Shelby Cobras (both the Mustang & Roadster versions) and a host of other rare cars.

You might want to reexamine your understanding of 'theory'.

It's a heavily tested and proven idea of why & how something happens.

Gravity is a good example. 

Gravity itself is a 'fact'. You leave the airplane and you go down. Period.

But why do you do that?
HOW does the planet pull you towards itself?

THAT is the 'fun' part. There are a couple different, competing theories on how & why. Much of it is fact. Some is speculation and conjecture. 
Prove it and you get a Nobel Prize. 

And I agree with and largely approve of those willing to engage the trolls to combat their propaganda and disinformation. 
Without that, their idiotic claims go unchallenged and some will believe them.

I don't have the discipline and self control to do it without 'crossing lines' and getting into trouble.

So I choose to not engage.

Ford disagrees!

DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

6 hours ago, normiss said:

Ford disagrees!

DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

Fully agree on the 'drool' part.

But it's a new car.

Got any clue what a '68 Shelby GT500 goes for? 

Or a convertible Hemi 'Cuda?

[billvon 2,400]

On 10/30/2023 at 7:17 AM, brenthutch said:

If having uncomfortable realities shared makes you upset, you may want to try on some thicker skin.

Indeed!  Hope your skin is thick enough for this:

In the EU, new gas cars had only a 33.4% share.  Hybrids are at 28.6% and EVs are at 14.2%.  PHEV is at 8.2%.   Non-electrified cars now make up LESS THAN HALF of new car sales.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/11/new-car-sales-surge-in-the-eu-bevs-take-14-2-market-share/#Echobox=1700910867

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

Had an interesting experience this morning. 
I got 'snuck up' on by an Amazon truck. Super quiet.

On the side, near the bottom was a 'powered by Rivian' badge.
 

I asked the driver as he was hopping out.
Full electric. He said it suits the job perfectly.

A quick search found this:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g42063896/rivian-amazon-edv-delivery-van-black-friday/

Turns out they've been around for a bit over a year.

Pretty damned cool.

[ryoder 1,388]

3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Had an interesting experience this morning. 
I got 'snuck up' on by an Amazon truck. Super quiet.

On the side, near the bottom was a 'powered by Rivian' badge.
 

I asked the driver as he was hopping out.
Full electric. He said it suits the job perfectly.

A quick search found this:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g42063896/rivian-amazon-edv-delivery-van-black-friday/

Turns out they've been around for a bit over a year.

Pretty damned cool.

They have been prowling my neighborhood for maybe 6 months. I was working in my garage with the door open last summer, when a weird whirring sound caused me to go outside to see what it was.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

1 minute ago, ryoder said:

They have been prowling my neighborhood for maybe 6 months. I was working in my garage with the door open last summer, when a weird whirring sound caused me to go outside to see what it was.

I volunteer at a cat rescue, and we get tons of donations via Amazon. But the guy pulls up in the alley, parks and rings the bell for the back door. I help bring all the stuff in, thank him and close the door. 
We likely have a couple of these around, I'm just not in a position to notice that they're electric. 
I will pay more attention now.

And I've joined the 'battery club'. 

Picked up a Chevy Bolt at the beginning of November. Got a 240v level 2 charger installed a week or so later.
It's very different, pretty weird. It takes a fair amount of 'getting used to'.

But it's cool as all hell, even if it's kind of a 'dorkmobile'. 

Going from my 05 Porsche Cayenne Turbo to the electric Bolt is a bit of a jump, although the Bolt can launch almost as well as the Cayenne. It also handles VERY well on corners, mainly due to the weight of the battery pack being at the bottom of the car.

Best part is the cost. I've gone from ~14mpg (premium) to about 4 miles per kWh.
Premium is just dropping below $4/gal around here.
Electricity runs about $0.11/kWh. Eleven cents.

I commute about 44 miles round trip to hang out with the cats, and in the Cayenne, it would be $10 or $12 in gas. In the Bolt, it takes about 11kWh (according to the dashboard) for the same trip.  A buck and a quarter. 
The colder weather (and it's not really cold here yet) will take a toll, but I don't see any real issues. I don't drive far enough to need anywhere near max range, so that won't be a problem. 

[JoeWeber 2,302]

18 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

I volunteer at a cat rescue, and we get tons of donations via Amazon.

So people from nowhere hit a donate button and the cat rescue gets the money? Okay. You didn't join the Cat thread but now here you are: give us who cannot justify the idea of feral cats roaming and killing birds, or just roaming and crapping in our flower beds, the rationale for saving them and then setting them loose again.

Edited December 5, 2023 by JoeWeber

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

So people from nowhere hit a donate button and the cat rescue gets the money? Okay. You didn't join the Cat thread but now here you are: give us who cannot justify the idea of feral cats roaming and killing birds, or just roaming and crapping in our flower beds, the rationale for saving them and then setting them loose again.

They don't get 'set loose', fool.

They get adopted out to people who agree that they won't go outside.

We even get support from a store that sells bird feeders, seed and other stuff for wild birds because the cats that get adopted out are fixed, and part of the contract is that they don't go out.

[JoeWeber 2,302]

Just now, wolfriverjoe said:

They don't get 'set loose', fool.

They get adopted out to people who agree that they won't go outside.

We even get support from a store that sells bird feeders, seed and other stuff for wild birds because the cats that get adopted out are fixed, and part of the contract is that they don't go out.

I'm the fool? Sure they don't get allowed outside. Who would do such a thing to their kitty buddy when it's just sitting there looking out the window, longingly. Thanks for the validation. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm the fool? Sure they don't get allowed outside. Who would do such a thing to their kitty buddy when it's just sitting there looking out the window, longingly. Thanks for the validation. 

And that statement is why I chose not to participate in the 'cat hating' thread, and rarely respond to you anymore.

[JoeWeber 2,302]

1 minute ago, wolfriverjoe said:

And that statement is why I chose not to participate in the 'cat hating' thread, and rarely respond to you anymore.

Because you love feral cats, and I and others, have vast reasons to consider your activities to rehabilitate them counterproductive? And because I disagree with that provably wrong position you won't engage me on any other topic? That's quite intellectual of you, Joe. 

[gowlerk 1,914]

7 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Because you love feral cats, and I and others, have vast reasons to consider your activities to rehabilitate them counterproductive? And because I disagree with that provably wrong position you won't engage me on any other topic? That's quite intellectual of you, Joe. 

Stop it please, both of you. No one wins at cat wars.

[JoeWeber 2,302]

18 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Stop it please, both of you. No one wins at cat wars.

How very Ken of you. Joe won't win because he is defending a belief system, not feral cats. House cats are an invasive species that have been cuteified and anthropomorphized in a way that is unavailable to jumping carp, for example. They have no "but I love it" constituency like kitties.

[gowlerk 1,914]

2 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

They have no "but I love it" constituency like kitties.

I know. There are cat ladies but no catfish ladies. 

[normiss 622]

This place is so nucking futs sometimes....

 

Happy Harley Days!

 

[lippy 773]

7 hours ago, normiss said:

Happy Harley Days!

So you're part of the lefties' war on Toyotathon!?!?!?! Let's not lose sight of the reason for the season!

[brenthutch 384]

“This was the year the auto industry's race toward an all-electric future took a detour.” 
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/2023-bold-ev-strategies-took-punch-reality-2023-12-11/

Just what I predicted at the beginning of the year.