EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[lippy 773]

32 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

And that is one of the reasons the growth in EV sales is slowing. 

You have any evidence of that, or you just like how it feels?  I'm sure that range anxiety plays a big part in some peoples' decision to not get an EV, but there are plenty of EV offerings that'll outlast most bladders on a road trip.  The specific model I'm looking to buy isn't there yet, but will be soon enough. 

You can dig in your heels on the Luddite angle and celebrate every tiny setback of EV's along the way, but there's a finite supply of old dinosaur blood in the ground...and the whole climate change thing, but I know that's not your jam

[brenthutch 384]

3 minutes ago, lippy said:

You have any evidence of that, or you just like how it feels?  I'm sure that range anxiety plays a big part in some peoples' decision to not get an EV, but there are plenty of EV offerings that'll outlast most bladders on a road trip.  The specific model I'm looking to buy isn't there yet, but will be soon enough. 

You can dig in your heels on the Luddite angle and celebrate every tiny setback of EV's along the way, but there's a finite supply of old dinosaur blood in the ground...and the whole climate change thing, but I know that's not your jam

 

“Ford also said it plans to delay about $12 billion in previously announced spending on EV manufacturing capacity, saying that its customers in North America are no longer willing to pay a premium for an EV vehicle versus a comparable internal-combustion alternative.”

No longer willing to pay a premium….

Edited October 29, 2023 by brenthutch

[lippy 773]

13 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

 

“Ford also said it plans to delay about $12 billion in previously announced spending on EV manufacturing capacity, saying that its customers in North America are no longer willing to pay a premium for an EV vehicle versus a comparable internal-combustion alternative.”

No longer willing to pay a premium….

Well it's in quotation marks and in a post from Brent, so it must be true...FFS you still haven't figured out how to link a source?  Is your aversion to EV's just a lack of technical abilities?

[brenthutch 384]

1 minute ago, lippy said:

Well it's in quotation marks and in a post from Brent, so it must be true...FFS you still haven't figured out how to link a source?  Is your aversion to EV's just a lack of technical abilities?

No I’m just waiting for you and your ilk to call me out and make fools of yourselves 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-delays-ev-manufacturing-investment-cars-too-expensive-2023-10

[lippy 773]

9 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

No I’m just waiting for you and your ilk to call me out and make fools of yourselves 

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-delays-ev-manufacturing-investment-cars-too-expensive-2023-10

I quite regularly make a fool of myself, but you can't see my current lack of pants so I'm not sure what you're talking about.  I can't speak for the rest of my ilk, unfortunately.  As usual, you took some selective quotes from the article.  For example, you could have gone with:

 

Quote

The company stressed that it is still committed to spending on future EV models, however.

Or

Quote

"We're not moving away from our second generation [EV] products," Lawler said in a media briefing on Thursday, per CNBC.

Or

Quote

 "We know prices will come down, and as that happens, we will have a bigger ramp-up of EVs."

EV's are the direction where things are going.  You can plug your ears and stomp your feet and call out a minor adjustment in the rollout as -ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT EV'S ARE SHITE-, but that'll go down as well as your assurances of Tesla's bankruptcy years ago.  

 

[brenthutch 384]

21 minutes ago, lippy said:

 

You can plug your ears and stomp your feet and call out a minor adjustment in the rollout…

 

Only a delusional lefty would characterize $12 billion as a minor adjustment and your quotes would best be characterized as wishful thinking 

Edited October 29, 2023 by brenthutch

[lippy 773]

11 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Only a delusional lefty would characterize $12 billion as a minor adjustment and your quote would best be characterized as wishful thinking 

Ford's revenue last year was $170B, to put it in a bit of perspective.  

One could just as easily say that only a delusional Luddite would declare that all EV's are unviable because one company decided to delay some expansion plans.  

[brenthutch 384]

2 minutes ago, lippy said:

Ford's revenue last year was $170B, to put it in a bit of perspective.  

One could just as easily say that only a delusional Luddite would declare that all EV's are unviable because one company decided to delay some expansion plans.  

Internal combustion engine vehicles are responsible for that revenue while EVs are responsible for billions in losses.

[lippy 773]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Internal combustion engine vehicles are responsible for that revenue while EVs are responsible for billions in losses.

You mean the factories that were built last year haven't paid for themselves yet?!?!? I don't have a fancy MBA like you, but I'd have assumed it would take some time for those to become profitable.  

[brenthutch 384]

1 minute ago, lippy said:

You mean the factories that were built last year haven't paid for themselves yet?!?!? I don't have a fancy MBA like you, but I'd have assumed it would take some time for those to become profitable.  

The fact Ford is pulling billions from EVs speaks volumes on what they feel about the future of EVs.  Not me but the company that has real skin in the game 

[JoeWeber 2,304]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Internal combustion engine vehicles are responsible for that revenue while EVs are responsible for billions in losses.

According to a local coterie of gadfly's, we have at least 100 years of fossil fuels to burn on the way to 800ppm CO2, the end of all lefty effete feedback loop cocktail conversation, and a most salubrious future where food plants are growing out of our ears and Saudi Arabia has assumed the mantle of the number one farming nation in the world. Sounds good to me. For planning my 100 years from now portfolio, just how should I start positioning myself for a fossil fuel free future and when? Obviously you'd argue now is not the time and electricity is no more than a passing fad, and you might be right. But again, what and when?

[grimmie 174]

I had to Google “salubrious”.

Thanks for a new word to my vocabulary.

[brenthutch 384]

10 minutes ago, grimmie said:

I had to Google “salubrious”.

Thanks for a new word to my vocabulary.

You’re welcome 

[billvon 2,402]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

And that is one of the reasons the growth in EV sales is slowing.

Backpedal in bold.

And Brent SLAMS it into reverse!  In another ten posts he will be claiming that Lippy is an uninformed rube because he does not agree that EV sales are still climbing.

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

2 hours ago, lippy said:

You have any evidence of that, or you just like how it feels?  I'm sure that range anxiety plays a big part in some peoples' decision to not get an EV, but there are plenty of EV offerings that'll outlast most bladders on a road trip.  The specific model I'm looking to buy isn't there yet, but will be soon enough. 

You can dig in your heels on the Luddite angle and celebrate every tiny setback of EV's along the way, but there's a finite supply of old dinosaur blood in the ground...and the whole climate change thing, but I know that's not your jam

Hi lippy,

You might like reading this:  The Long Emergency - Wikipedia

I found it to be a very interesting book.  I do not agree with everything he writes; but, most of it.

Jerry Baumchen

Edited October 30, 2023 by JerryBaumchen

[lippy 773]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi lippy,

You might like reading this:  The Long Emergency - Wikipedia

I found it to be a very interesting book.  I do not agree with everything he writes; but, most of it.

Jerry Baumchen

Thanks for sharing...From the synopsis, it reminds me a lot of the late 90's/early 2000's when everybody was worried about 'peak oil' but with the added scariness of climate change built on top of it.  

My first thought is that the worst-case, 'Mad Max' scenario isn't impossible, but anybody predicting that has just a blurry of a crystal ball as the rest of us.  Nobody knows exactly how much longer the 'easy oil' will be available (and what we're getting today isn't easy by the standards of 20 years ago) or just how the transition to renewables will go, how bad the effects of climate change will be in the foreseeable future.....  

A person could get pretty preoccupied thinking about all those variables.  I guess it'd be easier to just ignore the problem and call anybody thinking about it a leftie cuck

[gowlerk 1,915]

3 hours ago, lippy said:

Well it's in quotation marks and in a post from Brent, so it must be true...FFS you still haven't figured out how to link a source?  Is your aversion to EV's just a lack of technical abilities?

Maybe be careful here. It seems that this time at least he is correct. Several dependable news sources are reporting that major car makers are slowing their EV manufacturing investments. It seems like a case of getting a little ahead of the curve. This doesn't mean the trend is reversing, it just means that in an effort to not be left behind they were a little too aggressive. The fact remains that EVs will dominate because they are better than ICE models in so many ways.

Edited October 30, 2023 by gowlerk

[billvon 2,402]

1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi lippy,

You might like reading this:  The Long Emergency - Wikipedia

 

Every time I see that, I think of the John Varley book "Slow Apocalypse."  Similar theme, but this time the end of oil is caused by a bacterium that converts oil to hydrogen and tar.  It's used during a regional war, and of course it spreads farther than its makers intend.

[lippy 773]

6 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Maybe be careful here. It seems that this time at least he is correct. Several dependable news sources are reporting that major car makers are slowing their EV manufacturing investments. It seems like a case of getting a little ahead of the curve. This doesn't mean the trend is reversing, it just means that in an effort to not be left behind they were a little too aggressive. 

I'm not trying to say that's not happening and I've read similar reporting elsewhere.  That said, as per SOP Brent was only telling half the story and he was cherry picking certain bits of the article and couldn't be bothered to paste a link that gave the whole story.  

[gowlerk 1,915]

14 minutes ago, lippy said:

I'm not trying to say that's not happening and I've read similar reporting elsewhere.  That said, as per SOP Brent was only telling half the story and he was cherry picking certain bits of the article and couldn't be bothered to paste a link that gave the whole story.  

Right. In other words he is successfully playing you.

[olofscience 422]

9 hours ago, brenthutch said:

The fact Ford is pulling billions from EVs speaks volumes on what they feel about the future of EVs.  Not me but the company that has real skin in the game 

You actually haven't responded to lippy's point. Are they building new ICE factories? They just shut down their engine factory here in the UK.

[lippy 773]

7 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Right. In other words he is successfully playing you.

I'm not sure how me calling out his BS == him playing me.  I've got no illusions of changing his mind, but it was a slow news day.  

[brenthutch 384]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

You actually haven't responded to lippy's point. Are they building new ICE factories? 

They already have internal combustion engine factories.

[brenthutch 384]

9 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi lippy,

You might like reading this:  The Long Emergency - Wikipedia

I found it to be a very interesting book.  I do not agree with everything he writes; but, most of it.

Jerry Baumchen

Neo Malthusian nonsense 

[olofscience 422]

39 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

They already have internal combustion engine factories.

But no expansion plans? They're doing a LOT of expansion plans for EVs. Delayed, as you keep crowing about, but not cancelled.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by olofscience