Florida mandates teaching that slavery had benefits to blacks

[JoeWeber 2,338]

38 minutes ago, billvon said:

Oh definitely.  And back in the day (the rec.skydiving days) Winsor posted both some thought-provoking and some brain dead material.  Overall very worth reading.  But the best part of his posts were his mea culpas.  His apologies for his misstatements and mistakes were true works of art, indicating both the ability to not take himself too seriously and the realization that perhaps he sometimes actually made mistakes.

Sorry to see that Winsor go.  The new one is never in doubt.

I'm still not sure. For example, in post #68 here he again strongly inferred we are a very sorry bunch. I mean, how much of an apology are you looking for?

[lippy 782]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Maybe had Winsor the prescience of knowing how his artless analogy would be received here he'd have chosen a different set of words.

Maybe I'm just not as generous as you when it comes to interpreting Winsor's posts, but I was operating under the assumption that he carefully chose his words just before he pulled out the lawn chair and popcorn to enjoy the fruits of his post.

[gowlerk 1,947]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

I'm still not sure. For example, in post #68 here he again strongly inferred we are a very sorry bunch. I mean, how much of an apology are you looking for?

 

10 minutes ago, lippy said:

Maybe I'm just not as generous as you when it comes to interpreting Winsor's posts, but I was operating under the assumption that he carefully chose his words just before he pulled out the lawn chair and popcorn to enjoy the fruits of his post.

My impression of him is mainly his smug superiority and his willingness to suffer us fools enough to share tidbits of his intellect and accumulated life wisdom. Which seems these days to have developed into a fine sense of which groups in society are the most deserving of utter contempt and hatred. The impression I get is of a shrinking man in a shrinking world nearing a very bitter and angry end.  

[JoeWeber 2,338]

32 minutes ago, lippy said:

Maybe I'm just not as generous as you when it comes to interpreting Winsor's posts, but I was operating under the assumption that he carefully chose his words just before he pulled out the lawn chair and popcorn to enjoy the fruits of his post.

Nah, he flavors his prose for effect and, like everyone, flubs it from time to time. That said when reading this audience I'm convinced he doesn't see any daylight between you and richravizza, for example. 

[JoeWeber 2,338]

38 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

 

My impression of him is mainly his smug superiority and his willingness to suffer us fools enough to share tidbits of his intellect and accumulated life wisdom. Which seems these days to have developed into a fine sense of which groups in society are the most deserving of utter contempt and hatred. The impression I get is of a shrinking man in a shrinking world nearing a very bitter and angry end.  

Odd, I didn't know he was a DZO.

[gowlerk 1,947]

17 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Odd, I didn't know he was a DZO.

Probably he is not. He does have a PA-28-140 registered in his name. 

[JoeWeber 2,338]

Just now, gowlerk said:

Probably he is not. He does have a PA-28-140 registered in his name. 

Stalking is not a good look.

[gowlerk 1,947]

1 minute ago, JoeWeber said:

Stalking is not a good look.

I'm trying to understand where this guy is coming from. Is research stalking? 

[normiss 635]

8 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Stalking is not a good look.

Reading public records is stalking?

 

[gowlerk 1,947]

This thread is starting to get way too personal and that is mostly my fault. So I will just say that like most of us I find victim blaming to be wrong and in this instance more than a little offensive. Winsor is a complicated person. 

[JoeWeber 2,338]

13 minutes ago, normiss said:

Reading public records is stalking?

 

Well, it's less offensive than peaking in your sisters underwear drawer, I suppose, but for we elderly the idea that anyone is just a keystroke away from legitimately looking under our skirts is just a little bit smarmy.

[JoeWeber 2,338]

19 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I'm trying to understand where this guy is coming from. Is research stalking? 

Read what he writes, it's all there for the taking. 

[jakee 1,271]

2 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Read what he writes, it's all there for the taking. 

That’s rich, given that you appear to have a massive problem with people who read what he writes without assuming that he doesn’t actually mean it. 

[winsor 187]

A little trick I picked up in Moscow: when there appears to be no comprehension because we're speaking different languages or something, say it slower and louder.  About the closest I can get here is to go to caps, and I'd rather not.

It's also tough to follow the drift here with half of it being killfiled.

The short form is that if someone is sent into a minefield without being properly warned, it is the responsibility of the people who should have warned said individual, not to mention the people whose mines they are. To characterize that as "victim blaming" is silly.

I have been informed that Emmett Till's murder was the result of racism (you figure?).  I can't properly respond to that without waxing facetious/sarcastic, which appears to be beyond the grasp of some folks here (though they may feign ignorance as a matter of rhetoric).

The bottom line is that Emmett Till was sent into a minefield/viper's den/whatever without being properly warned and came to grief.  It was OF COURSE 100% the fault of the evil racist bastards who abducted, tortured and killed him - but it would have improved his odds if the people who sent him there and the people with whom he stayed had made crystal clear to him what dangers lurked, which they knew all too well.

If my kid wants to point out that the apostrophe on the colors saying " Pagan's" makes it plural rather than possessive, I let him know that these guys are easily confused and get violent when they're confused, so it's best to let it drop.  If he had done so and he and I got maimed or killed it would not be his fault, it would be the Pagan's for being vicious morons and mine for failing to warn him.

Anyone who thinks that's victim blaming isn't giving it a lot of thought.

 

BSBD,

Winsor 

[olofscience 424]

18 minutes ago, winsor said:

The short form is that if someone is sent into a minefield without being properly warned, it is the responsibility of the people who should have warned said individual, not to mention the people whose mines they are. To characterize that as "victim blaming" is silly.

Comparing thinking, deciding people to unthinking, unconscious mines implies that they had no other choice but to kill. So you really have to stop with the analogies.

[jakee 1,271]

1 hour ago, winsor said:

A little trick I picked up in Moscow: when there appears to be no comprehension because we're speaking different languages or something, say it slower and louder.  About the closest I can get here is to go to caps, and I'd rather not.

It's also tough to follow the drift here with half of it being killfiled.

The short form is that if someone is sent into a minefield without being properly warned, it is the responsibility of the people who should have warned said individual, not to mention the people whose mines they are. To characterize that as "victim blaming" is silly.….

The bottom line is that Emmett Till was sent into a minefield/viper's den/whatever without being properly warned and came to grief. 

That’s weird. Because what you actually said in your first post was this “By all accounts Emmett Till was told in no uncertain terms that flirting with white women in Mississippi was a Bad Career Move.” Does that sound like the bottom line is that he was insufficiently warned? Does that sound like it was the responsibility of the people who should have warned him? 
 

Saying something “louder and slower” and saying something completely different are not the same thing. It is pathetic and laughable that you are blaming other people for misunderstanding what you meant, when you are now explicitly claiming to have meant something that is clearly, obviously and objectively the opposite of what you originally wrote.

 

Not that we should expect anything more from someone who boasts about refusing to listen to people who disagree with him.

[jakee 1,271]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

Anyone who thinks that's victim blaming isn't giving it a lot of thought.

Which is irrelevant, because that is not what people were calling victim blaming. You said Till was warned “in no uncertain terms”. You repeated the assertion that Till’s mother had strongly warned him to be very careful because of how different things were down there. You said he ignored those warnings because he was brash, naive, cavalier and boastful. That’s what people are thinking is victim blaming. Y’know, the stuff you actually said, not what you’re now pretending you said.

[olofscience 424]

2 hours ago, winsor said:

A little trick I picked up in Moscow: when there appears to be no comprehension because we're speaking different languages or something, say it slower and louder.

This is the strategy used by many Brits in Europe, and they are ridiculed for this.

But god forbid learning another language, right?

[wmw999 2,166]

A. As someone who speaks a couple of languages better than she understands them, depending on the accent, slower and a little louder can help — in those languages. Doing that in any other will be met with a blank stare. The moral of the story — the person you’re talking to is the target, and comprehension is as much the speaker’s responsibility as it is the listener’s. Which might even mean (god forbid) adjusting one’s actions, re-wording, using a dictionary, or acting out — or apologizing if none of those work. Because the speaker owns the initiation of the action. So don’t double down on “I said it right the first time, you just don’t understand.”

B. I completely took the original Emmett Till post as victim-blaming, and I’m a pretty good reader

Wendy P. 

[wolfriverjoe 1,365]

45 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

A. As someone who speaks a couple of languages better than she understands them, depending on the accent, slower and a little louder can help — in those languages...

B. I completely took the original Emmett Till post as victim-blaming, and I’m a pretty good reader

Wendy P. 

As someone who has lost a fair amount of hearing (in situations with background noise, I have a hard time understanding conversations), the phrase 'Can you please repeat that a little bit louder and slower' is something I say a LOT. 

And despite hearing issues, my reading comprehension is fine.

As part of the 'victim blaming', there were blatant lies about Till's behavior.

Which is pretty typical for him.

[gowlerk 1,947]

5 hours ago, winsor said:

It's also tough to follow the drift here with half of it being killfiled.

You should have no problem going back to re-read what you actually posted to see what people objected to. There is no thread drift here except the one you are trying to initiate as you search in vain for justifications instead of admitting you are wrong. 

[Phil1111 927]

9 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Probably he is not. He does have a PA-28-140 registered in his name. 

So he could have bought a Cessna instead. mmm...That says much about him.

IMO the whole "superiority" about his behavior has just gone out the door. Kinda like a Hells Angels prospect showing up with a V-twin Honda.

[ryoder 1,404]

On 7/25/2023 at 6:41 AM, winsor said:

By all accounts Emmett Till was told in no uncertain terms that flirting with white women in Mississippi was a Bad Career Move.

Emmett, however, made light of it, claimed to have dated white girls back home, and made a point to demonstrate to his cousins that it was no big deal.  That did not end well.

With Mrs. Bryant’s death, the truth of what happened that August day may now never be clear. More than half a century after the murder, Timothy B. Tyson, a Duke University historian who interviewed her, wrote that she had admitted to him that she had perjured herself on the witness stand to make Emmett’s conduct sound more threatening than it actually was — serving, in Dr. Tyson’s words, as “the mouthpiece of a monstrous lie.”

“She said with respect to the physical assault on her, or anything menacing or sexual, that that part isn’t true,” Dr. Tyson told “CBS This Morning” in 2017.

 

Source: NYT: Carolyn Bryant Donham Dies at 88; Her Words Doomed Emmett Till

[normiss 635]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Well, it's less offensive than peaking in your sisters underwear drawer, I suppose, but for we elderly the idea that anyone is just a keystroke away from legitimately looking under our skirts is just a little bit smarmy.

When we were all in high school, that's where she kept her rolling papers.

My step brother would regularly go in there for the strawberry papers.

It always creeped me out. I also didn't like the strawberry papers.

[Phil1111 927]

3 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

You should have no problem going back to re-read what you actually posted to see what people objected to. There is no thread drift here except the one you are trying to initiate as you search in vain for justifications instead of admitting you are wrong. 

He probably missed the part where Emmett Till was fourteen years old when he was murdered.