"Activist Judges"

[billeisele 122]

5 hours ago, jakee said:

It’s funny that Bill’s example in the last thread a week or two back was that a company which almost exclusively hired alumni from one college had a superb black employee who graduated somewhere else - so clearly he was only there because of affirmative action.

My takeaway from the same story was that the black guy was probably one of the only people in the whole company who was hired purely on merit. Everyone else had preferential treatment.

You are the most special kind of person. One with the unique power to read between the lines creating a story that never existed. Twisting and turning words and thoughts into a whole new meaning to justify yourself. Then demanding that one answer your questions. Always chiming in like a Chihuahua behind the big dogs, yapping up a storm then trying to lead the pack. Never with a unique thought of your own. It's impossible to have an intelligent conversation with all the background noise. 

Carry on, enjoy your yapping. You remind me of someone that just wants to argue and eventually does a great job of arguing with themselves.

[billeisele 122]

5 hours ago, wmw999 said:

And I've never, ever, had a male, or white male, manager who sucked. Maybe the boss's son? Or just one of the guys who hangs out, so that the rest of management knows they can "give him a chance to learn."

Why is race and gender rarely remarked on when it's a white guy who's incompetent?

Wendy P.

That's an interesting thought. My gosh, so many examples. The worst ones I've had were white, both male and female.

At lunch on Friday with the retiree group one name in particular came up. a Marketing manager. He was a white guy from NY, been in the south for 15+ years. He wore expensive suits, unusual for our type business in SC. Did some borderline crazy things, and often had out-there ideas. One idea was using front row tickets to a premier boxing match in NY as a prize.

We were in a 20 story bldg with cubicles. He had an oriental type rug in his office and would shuffle his feet like a boxer when he got excited about some wild scheme. He eventually got fired for a combination of negative behaviors. He got things done but they just didn't like how he did it. They hung him due to an unauthorized expense outside of his spending authority, the last one of many. 

Then there was the middle age white guy manager. on our floor, in another dept, that got caught with child porno on a jump drive in the office. This is when jump drives were fairly new and having one was unusual. His group, GIS, used them to give large files to each other.  Corporate Security and the feds took him out of the bldg. Nice guy, no one had a clue. People do dumb stuff. 

 

 

[jakee 1,257]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

You are the most special kind of person. One with the unique power to read between the lines creating a story that never existed. 

That's ironic. The topic here is you assuming that a black employee you didn't like was promoted because of affirmative action, but you think I'm reading between the lines?

Look, I get that you're just lashing out because you're embarrassed - but you have to understand that everyone else can see the same things that I'm pointing out.

[jakee 1,257]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

That's an interesting thought. My gosh, so many examples. The worst ones I've had were white, both male and female.

At lunch on Friday with the retiree group one name in particular came up. a Marketing manager. He was a white guy from NY, been in the south for 15+ years. He wore expensive suits, unusual for our type business in SC. Did some borderline crazy things, and often had out-there ideas. One idea was using front row tickets to a premier boxing match in NY as a prize.

We were in a 20 story bldg with cubicles. He had an oriental type rug in his office and would shuffle his feet like a boxer when he got excited about some wild scheme. He eventually got fired for a combination of negative behaviors. He got things done but they just didn't like how he did it. They hung him due to an unauthorized expense outside of his spending authority, the last one of many. 

So why did he get promoted in the first place?

[airdvr 198]

On 6/30/2023 at 5:26 PM, JoeWeber said:

“God only knows where I would be today” if not for the legal principles of equal employment opportunity measures such as affirmative action that are “critical to minorities and women in this society.”

“These laws and their proper application are all that stand between the first 17 years of my life and the second 17 years,”

Attributed to Clarence Thomas, when he was EEOC chairman in 1983.

 

So now he’s your hero?

My point is the vast majority of the government’s attempts to fix the problem have only succeeded in making it worse  

 

[JoeWeber 2,316]

Just now, airdvr said:

So now he’s your hero?

My point is the vast majority of the government’s attempts to fix the problem have only succeeded in making it worse  

 

Of course not. He's a scheming, lying, duplicitous, manipulative asshole. Same as Alito and Barrett. 

[jakee 1,257]

7 minutes ago, airdvr said:

So now he’s your hero?

Why do you think it benefits you to pretend to be that obtuse?

It is crystal clear that Joe is calling him a hypocrite. The two words may start with the same letter but they sure as hell don’t mean the same thing.

[JoeWeber 2,316]

On 6/30/2023 at 10:59 AM, JerryBaumchen said:

They are afraid of the future. *

Yep. And instead of owning up to it they adjust the facts to fit a more favorable narrative where they become the apparent victims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npPf0huC4d0&ab_channel=BrokenSockmonkey

 

[billvon 2,406]

38 minutes ago, airdvr said:

My point is the vast majority of the government’s attempts to fix the problem have only succeeded in making it worse  

Let's see:

Ending slavery - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing women to vote - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending enforced segregation - made society better, but conservaties hated it
Allowing interracial marriage - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending bans on being gay - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing gay people to marry - made society better, but conservatives hated it

I sense a theme here.

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Let's see:

Ending slavery - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing women to vote - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending enforced segregation - made society better, but conservaties hated it
Allowing interracial marriage - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending bans on being gay - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing gay people to marry - made society better, but conservatives hated it

I sense a theme here.

Hi Bill,

All of which, today's USSC seems to want to reverse.

It's interesting how some people see that as a good thing.  NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jerry Baumchen

 

[Phil1111 913]

3 hours ago, billvon said:

Let's see:

Ending slavery - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing women to vote - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending enforced segregation - made society better, but conservaties hated it
Allowing interracial marriage - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending bans on being gay - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing gay people to marry - made society better, but conservatives hated it

I sense a theme here.

Who said making society better was a conservative trait?

[ryoder 1,390]

Credit to NerdGirl on her FB account for this.

 

Legacy and Athlete Preferences at Harvard

Abstract:

We use public documents from the Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard University lawsuit to examine admissions preferences for recruited athletes, legacies, those on the dean’s interest list, and children of faculty and staff (ALDCs). More than 43% of white admits are ALDC; the share for African American, Asian American, and Hispanics is less than 16%. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected absent their ALDC status. Removing preferences for athletes and legacies would significantly alter the racial distribution of admitted students away from whites.

 

And for those (such as myself) not familiar with the term "dean’s interest list", it is defined here:

In Admissions, Harvard Favors Those Who Fund It, Internal Emails Show

The handful of emails — most of them sent between administrators and admissions officers — hint at the College’s behind-the-scenes fondness for applicants whose admission yields certain practical perks. Hughes referenced the emails as he quizzed Fitzsimmons on the “Dean’s Interest List,” a special and confidential list of applicants Harvard compiles every admissions cycle. Though the University closely guards the details, applicants on that list are often related to or of interest to top donors — and court filings show list members benefit from a significantly inflated acceptance rate.

 

There went the idea students are admitted based on merit.

[kallend 1,635]

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

Credit to NerdGirl on her FB account for this.

 

Legacy and Athlete Preferences at Harvard

 . . . 

2 hours ago, ryoder said:

 

There went the idea students are admitted based on merit.

But, but, but

That's totally different.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

13 hours ago, ryoder said:

...There went the idea students are admitted based on merit.

But...
But...
But...

MINORITIES get in based on merit.

 

"OUR PEOPLE'  are 'different'.

And there's no such thing as 'white privilege.
Riiiiiiiight.

[airdvr 198]

19 hours ago, billvon said:

Let's see:

Ending slavery - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing women to vote - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending enforced segregation - made society better, but conservaties hated it
Allowing interracial marriage - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Ending bans on being gay - made society better, but conservatives hated it
Allowing gay people to marry - made society better, but conservatives hated it

I sense a theme here.

Way to mail it in Bill.  I was speaking to the state of race relations.  While I agree all are good things only the first 4 are relevant and all of those happened more than 50 years ago.  Do you believe the state of the black person in American is better now than it was in the 1970's?

Federal government policies, while benefitting some urban areas, have historically been detrimental to African-American people. Years of welfare and housing policies have placed central city residents, especially African-Americans, at a disadvantage which they have not overcome. Policies that once denied benefits to Black people, such as public welfare and federally-insured mortgages, morphed into stigmatized policies which, when available to Blacks, became obstacles to their advancement. These same policies enabled the majority White population to do what they were initially designed to do – provide a toehold during a period of temporary economic decline after which personal advancement was possible. The effects of public welfare and housing policies may help to explain the vast differences in the economic status of Blacks as compared to Whites reported in recent research. The current wage BlackWhite gap is wide, but more telling is the enormous wealth gap between the two groups historically and currently. The Black-White wage gap increased between 2000 and 2018 while the Black-White wealth gap was the same in 2016 as it was in 1962. This paper explores how changes in the objectives, design, implementation of welfare and housing assistance have contributed to the wealth disparity and accumulation of assets. Intentionally antiracist policies are needed to counter the racist impacts of past and present policies. 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=cecr

[ryoder 1,390]

And now Harvard gets sued for their program of "Affirmative Action for Rich People with Dumb Kids":

AP: Activists spurred by affirmative action ruling challenge legacy admissions at Harvard

[JoeWeber 2,316]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

Way to mail it in Bill.  I was speaking to the state of race relations.  While I agree all are good things only the first 4 are relevant and all of those happened more than 50 years ago.  Do you believe the state of the black person in American is better now than it was in the 1970's?

Federal government policies, while benefitting some urban areas, have historically been detrimental to African-American people. Years of welfare and housing policies have placed central city residents, especially African-Americans, at a disadvantage which they have not overcome. Policies that once denied benefits to Black people, such as public welfare and federally-insured mortgages, morphed into stigmatized policies which, when available to Blacks, became obstacles to their advancement. These same policies enabled the majority White population to do what they were initially designed to do – provide a toehold during a period of temporary economic decline after which personal advancement was possible. The effects of public welfare and housing policies may help to explain the vast differences in the economic status of Blacks as compared to Whites reported in recent research. The current wage BlackWhite gap is wide, but more telling is the enormous wealth gap between the two groups historically and currently. The Black-White wage gap increased between 2000 and 2018 while the Black-White wealth gap was the same in 2016 as it was in 1962. This paper explores how changes in the objectives, design, implementation of welfare and housing assistance have contributed to the wealth disparity and accumulation of assets. Intentionally antiracist policies are needed to counter the racist impacts of past and present policies. 

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=cecr

Who wrote that? Would you have any of your own thoughts on the matter?

[airdvr 198]

https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=cecr

I've given my thoughts.  Let me leave you with one final thought.

When people lay blame for their problems on others they surrender the ability to solve them for themselves.  Government cannot, has not, and will not solve this problem.  The only people who can are the individuals.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

... The only people who can are the individuals.

IOW pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.  Too bad more than 300 years of institutional racism (slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc) has left you without bootstraps.  Sucks to be you I guess.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1090&context=cecr

I've given my thoughts.  Let me leave you with one final thought.

When people lay blame for their problems on others they surrender the ability to solve them for themselves.  Government cannot, has not, and will not solve this problem.  The only people who can are the individuals.

What happens when the 'individuals' ARE THE PROBLEM?

Look at the numbers above.

 

Quote

More than 43% of white admits are ALDC; the share for African American, Asian American, and Hispanics is less than 16%. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected absent their ALDC status.

How is that not "white privilege"?

[airdvr 198]

17 minutes ago, GeorgiaDon said:

IOW pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.  Too bad more than 300 years of institutional racism (slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc) has left you without bootstraps.  Sucks to be you I guess.

Don't confuse what I'm saying.  Tell me what you think the government should do to help.

[airdvr 198]

17 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Quote

More than 43% of white admits are ALDC; the share for African American, Asian American, and Hispanics is less than 16%. Our model of admissions shows that roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected absent their ALDC status.

How is that not "white privilege"?

That is most definitely white privilege.  Is Harvard the only school one can attend?  Had I wanted to go to Harvard I would not have been accepted either.

[billvon 2,406]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

Way to mail it in Bill.  I was speaking to the state of race relations. 

You were responding to a statement by Clarence Thomas, who said “God only knows where I would be today” if not for the legal principles of equal employment opportunity measures such as affirmative action that are “critical to minorities and women in this society.”  Not just blacks.

And you were responding in a thread about how judges are trying to maintain "a society that assigned roles based on position, gender, and race."

Race is just one part of that.  It is important to consider how we treat all minorities, because there is a strong link between how we see minorities overall and how we see specific minorities.  It will be nearly impossible to get rights for Asians, for example, in a culture that denies rights for blacks; there is too much precedent for denying those rights based on race.

Quote

Do you believe the state of the black person in American is better now than it was in the 1970's?

Yes.  Fewer people get angry and oppose interracial marriages.  Fewer cases of overt racism (i.e. taunting black people with racial epithets.)  There are now structures at most companies to deal with racist attacks on employees.  For some handy numbers -  in 1958, 44 percent of whites said they would move if a black family became their next door neighbor.  Today that is 1%.   In 1964, 18 percent of white people polled said they had a friend who was black.  Today it's 86%.  In 1970, 32% of black Americans were below the poverty line, compared to 10% for whites.  In 2018 it was 20% vs 8%.  In 1962 only 4% of black kids finished college.  By 2019 it was 9%.  In 1962 there were 4 black representatives in Congress.  Today there are 54.  In the same time range, the US went from 0 black senators to 4.  In 1970, average lifespan of a black person in America was 74 years.  Today it's 79.

And to your point there is still a gap between black and white when it comes to finishing college, average income, healthcare outcomes etc.  We still have work to do there.  But there is no question that overall it's getting better - and that is largely due to the programs that forced white people/companies/teams to accept blacks.  Often this happened with the company or school kicking and screaming that the US was "forcing immorality down our children's throats" or some variation on that eternal conservative lament.  But over time it has worked.  We've even had examples here from conservatives who said they got to know this or that black guy at work and decided that he was OK.  That would certainly not have happened as quickly without programs like forced desegregation and affirmative action.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52992795

[billvon 2,406]

31 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I've given my thoughts.  Let me leave you with one final thought.

When people lay blame for their problems on others they surrender the ability to solve them for themselves.  

Is that true for conservatives, say, blaming Biden for the recession, blaming wokeness for some sort of decline in America and blaming affirmative action for bad outcomes for blacks?

[billvon 2,406]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

That is most definitely white privilege.  Is Harvard the only school one can attend?  

No.  And is Harvard the only school that has programs that prioritize white wealthy kids with connections?  Also no.