No wind landing, advice needed...

[JBR 0]

After a no wind landing today whilst flying a skymaster 290 (my DZ wont let me jump anything else as I weigh 224lbs, until I'm over 50 jumps) I have been left with terrible grass stains on my trousers can anyone give me some words of wisdom on this?

[cazzercam 0]

flare a bit higher, run it off

[piisfish 135]

Wear camo trousers

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[monkycndo 0]

Oxi-Clean for the trousers.

If you can get someone to video your landings, this will help you determine if you are getting everything out of your flare. Often people think they are doing full flare, when they could actually get more umff at the very bottom of the toggle stroke.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[mjosparky 3]

monkycndo

Oxi-Clean for the trousers.

If you can get someone to video your landings, this will help you determine if you are getting everything out of your flare. Often people think they are doing full flare, when they could actually get more umff at the very bottom of the toggle stroke.

What he said.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[yoink 321]

For a large canopy there's no technique difference.

Flare and flare WELL, then prepare to land.

The only thing to work out is timing... remember - if in doubt, flare a little high and be ready to PLF. Much better that than flaring too low...

It'll come.

[DocPop 1]

cazzercam

flare a bit higher, run it off

There is no need to flare at a different height than in any other conditions as your decent rate will be the same.

You need to finish the flare as much as possible though to minimize forward speed.

If you're going fast, I'd say slide rather than PLF which could cause a tumble. Think about how motorcycle racers slide after a 180mph spill vs the ones who tumble and break arms, legs, collar bones etc.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[dthames 0]

monkycndo

Oxi-Clean for the trousers.

If you can get someone to video your landings, this will help you determine if you are getting everything out of your flare. Often people think they are doing full flare, when they could actually get more umff at the very bottom of the toggle stroke.

Indeed. I was leaving the DZ yesterday and a student was landing close enough to the road that I just stopped sort so I would not distract the student. The student flared pretty well but failed to finish and went down on the knees (where is the PLF). From where I was at there was a good amount of flare left and I thought, why didn't he finish it. That seems to be somewhat common.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[JohnMitchell 14]

monkycndo

Oxi-Clean for the trousers.

If you can get someone to video your landings, this will help you determine if you are getting everything out of your flare. Often people think they are doing full flare, when they could actually get more umff at the very bottom of the toggle stroke.

All very good advice. There are so many factors that go into a good landing, it's impossible to say what you are doing "wrong" on an internet forum.

Once of the best descriptions of a good landing goes something like this:

You want to come in at full speed with your canopy straight above you, flaring just enough that you level off about a foot above the ground with your canopy still straight above your head. Then continue to bring the toggles downward to maintain that level flight until the canopy doesn't have enough lift to hold you anymore. When you're finished the toggles should be all the way down.


Remember that flaring converts your forward speed to lift. Speed is your friend.

[BIGUN 1,053]

Brian Germain: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Landing/Surviving_the_No_Wind_Landing_671.html

Scott Miller: http://www.dropzone.com/safety/Landing/Another_Look_at_No-Wind_Landings_680.html

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[erdnarob 1]

I would suggest you to ask somebody to take a sideway video of your approach and landing. Anybody can do that with a smartphone. Have a look at the video with an instructor. You will see when you flare, too high or too low...and therefore you will be able to do appropriate correction.

At your level, you could maybe try this. When you start your approach at 30-40 feet above the ground, lower your toggles to your shoulder to slow down your forward speed. Look at 45 degrees in front of you and when you see clearly the grass leaves, lower your toggles progressively. They should be depressed at the maximum when at 1-2 feet above the ground. Don't give up, I know your situation. Tell us when you will be OK

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[JBR 0]

Thanks for the advice guys, the stains came out!
In all seriousness though, I stood 3 out of 5 up yesterday in really light wind and to be honest I woosed out and PLF'd the other 2 right at the end when I know I could have run the first one out and stood up the second. I was going for accuracy yesterday and hit the same area every time (although with different parts of my body!) so I'm quite happy with my progress.

[JBR 0]

I should also add that I was made to feel a lot better about my no wind landings when I watched at least 6 jumpers all from the same load of about 12 all of which were B licence or higher having to dust themselves off after not standing their landing up, I noticed that almost all of these people weren't flaring all the way and then falling forwards. I'm guessing this is caused by not "finishing" the flare?

[Hellis 0]

JBR

..... I noticed that almost all of these people weren't flaring all the way and then falling forwards. I'm guessing this is caused by not "finishing" the flare?

Maybe.

But maybe they have higher stallpoints on their canopies and were flaring it all the way but it looks like they are not.

I'm not saying this is more likely than the other but it could be.
Generally it is as you say.

[ShotterMG 0]

Learn the multi stage flare. Level the canopy, bleed off all the speed you can, and finish the flare strong and all the way down. All the talk about flaring at a certain height is bogus. The one big flare ten feet off the ground is just for students. You need to transition to the multi stage flare. Ask your instructors. Once learned you will stand up even down winders.

[Zlew 0]

Get video of your landings and coaching if possible.

The most common reason people wipe out on no wind days (IMO), is people stop flying their canopy too soon. People stop flying and try to start running or sliding when their feet first hit the ground, or shortly there after. Keep her flying until the toggles are slack in your hands. Transition every lost drop of airspeed into lift and slow yourself down more in the process. You might be surprised at how much more lift there is, and how much more it will slow down before you have to take a few steps.

[Nerra 0]

ShotterMG

Learn the multi stage flare. Level the canopy, bleed off all the speed you can, and finish the flare strong and all the way down. All the talk about flaring at a certain height is bogus. The one big flare ten feet off the ground is just for students. You need to transition to the multi stage flare. Ask your instructors. Once learned you will stand up even down winders.

This!

[Nerra 0]

erdnarob

I would suggest you to ask somebody to take a sideway video of your approach and landing. Anybody can do that with a smartphone. Have a look at the video with an instructor. You will see when you flare, too high or too low...and therefore you will be able to do appropriate correction.

At your level, you could maybe try this. When you start your approach at 30-40 feet above the ground, lower your toggles to your shoulder to slow down your forward speed. Look at 45 degrees in front of you and when you see clearly the grass leaves, lower your toggles progressively. They should be depressed at the maximum when at 1-2 feet above the ground. Don't give up, I know your situation. Tell us when you will be OK

I'd be hesitant to tell someone who is still learning the basics to do a final in brakes.

[billvon 2,400]

Another bit of advice -

It is common for people to flare too high when landing in no wind or downwind conditions. This levels them off at 5 feet, then they plop down the rest of the way when the canopy stops flying.

This happens because most of us measure height at least partially by how fast it looks like we are going. The closer we are to the ground, the faster it seems like we are going. Some people see the increased speed caused by downwind landing, think "man I am low and I am going really fast, I better start flaring!"

The only way to overcome this is with experience, and again getting video of your landings can help you see if you are doing this. With your canopy size to weight ratio you may really get only one chance to flare, and a single long stroke may give you the best result - but it has to happen at the right altitude. (The altitude is always the same, but your perception of it will change as speed changes.)

[Kurbe105 1]

Keep those pants in your gear bag so you don't stain up any other pairs! Tell people you're training to be a swooper when you slide it in. You're still at a light wingloading so you'll figure it out eventually without any major damage. No wind is just a milder version of downwind. When I decided to learn downwind landings at a 2:1 wingloading, I did nothing but crash for at least 25 jumps before I finally got it (and some of them were like gnarly downhill mountain bike crashes). There's a fine art to sliding in on all fours with your hands behind you and winding up on your feet at the end. Your toggles will pay the price with the green and brown stains but keeping your weight back and sliding is better than leaning too far forward and face planting followed by your heels hitting you in the back of the head! If you try to transition from a slide to a run too early you're done! If you jump out west or somewhere there's not smooth grass it's best to let your feet touch down in front of you like landing gear as you flare and just slide on your bum to save your hands. No points for standing up your landings, but if you walk away you can get on another load.

[DrDom 0]

I have yet to have an unassisted stand up landing (i.e. off radio) and want to thank everyone for the advice as well as the OP posing the question.

I've flared high (was probable 10 feet up, I'm glad I can PLF well)
I flared low after that (overcompensation?) and also landed hard
then I landed in mud and I think my flare was good but in no wind when I tried to run it out I hit and went up to my knees in mud. Awesome. Faceplant.

anyhow, hopefully I'll stand one up someday, but the info here is really REALLY appreciated!

You are not the contents of your wallet.

[girthy 0]

I learned a lot from watching someone video my landings. Watching video i saw i was not flaring all the way. maybe only 50%.

And some German guy at Eloy told me when to start my flare a lot better. He said to imagine someone is standing in front of you as you are on final. when you are at the altitude where you could kick him in the face, start your flare. my next jump- the landing was perfect. couldnt find him again to say thank you, but till this day i still say to myself on final, "feet knees together, toggles up, kick him in the face flare flare flare".