Sexual orientation being "shoved down our throats"

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Along the lines of your 40 year old goths...they are either a biological male or female. 

Agreed.  But keep in mind that some of them are genetic males and biological females.  And a few of them don't even know it.

[jakee 1,254]

9 hours ago, airdvr said:

I'm not suggesting he shouldn't be allowed to live as he wants.  I'm saying he should hold off on making physical changes until 18 or older.

Along the lines of your 40 year old goths...they are either a biological male or female. 

Because again - this is the most pressing concern that immediately springs to mind when someone mentions that LGBT people really aren’t over represented on TV. Right.

[Coreece 190]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:56 PM, SkyDekker said:

On 12/17/2022 at 1:02 AM, Coreece said:

Anyway, it seems that nowadays we might have more accurate surveys, so it will be interesting to see if those percentages change moving forward.  It would tell us a lot.

Depends on what the poll discloses. You might see the percentage of gay people decrease, because there are now other "options" to chose from in a poll. it is then easy to start claiming the percentage of gay people is decreasing and therefor society rally doesn't have to do much for them anymore.

I guess I'd be more interested in fluctuations of bisexual activity and society's role in the personal decisions creating that variance.

Also the number LGTQ's that would also identuify as bisexual.

And the number of straight people that are on the fence (if only they could get past those damn innibitions, what their family might think and natural feelings of guilt or shame related to sexual feelings,thoughts,experiences in general. (YMMV)

Then there's people that can't be happy unless they have the best of both, or all worlds at the same time.  Who's the government to deny those rights?  Even some religious groups and independants/libertarians would support that.  So I'm thinking poligamy is next once this all dies out.  We'll  be at LGBTQAIP, almost a 3rd of the way from changing the entire order of the alphabet as well.
 

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

We'll  be at LGBTQAIP, almost a 3rd of the way from changing the entire order of the alphabet as well.

If that means "no one really cares any more because everyone is a little different" then that's a win.

 

[gowlerk 1,912]

10 hours ago, billvon said:

If that means "no one really cares any more because everyone is a little different" then that's a win.

 

And this is the heart of where we are going. Unless the reich wins the culture wars. 

[billvon 2,400]

3 minutes ago, Slim King said:

Follow the Science .. XX or XY ... Everything else is a mutation. Stick with the facts and it will all work out.

OK.  So if a woman is XY, what is she?

[airdvr 197]

A single gene (SRY) present on the Y chromosome acts as a signal to set the developmental pathway towards maleness. Presence of this gene starts off the process of virilization. This and other factors result in the sex differences in humans.[9] The cells in females, with two X chromosomes, undergo X-inactivation, in which one of the two X chromosomes is inactivated. The inactivated X chromosome remains within a cell as a Barr body.

Answer - male

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

A single gene (SRY) present on the Y chromosome acts as a signal to set the developmental pathway towards maleness. Presence of this gene starts off the process of virilization. This and other factors result in the sex differences in humans.[9] The cells in females, with two X chromosomes, undergo X-inactivation, in which one of the two X chromosomes is inactivated. The inactivated X chromosome remains within a cell as a Barr body.

Answer - male

What a nuanced understanding of the human condition.

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Answer - male

OK.  So there are tens of thousands of women in the US today - with breasts, vaginas etc - who you believe to be men.  Most of them don't even know they are XY.  You've probably met a few.  So how do we deal with this discrepancy, this affront to nature?  Perhaps we could do mandatory genetic testing for all women, then change the birth certificate of any such woman to read "male."  We could force those women to use men's bathrooms, and kick them off the teams they have been on for years so that women aren't offended by XY women on their team.  Perhaps even force gender reassignment surgery on them so that they are "correct."  Well, that's a little extreme.  Perhaps we could just ban them from all sports until they get the surgery.

Or we could let them decide for themselves that they are women.

[airdvr 197]

I don't care what they identify as...1 in 15,000 is a statistical zero.  Why do we have to deal with it at all?  They're the only ones who need to deal with it.

20 minutes ago, jakee said:

What a nuanced understanding of the human condition.

OP asked if they were male or female.  Strange how you guys spout about following the science when it comes to climate change but want to make it subjective when it comes to this.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:32 PM, Coreece said:

I guess I'd be more interested in fluctuations of bisexual activity and society's role in the personal decisions creating that variance.

Also the number LGTQ's that would also identuify as bisexual.

The good news is you're not alone. Good luck on your journey.

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

OP asked if they were male or female.  Strange how you guys spout about following the science when it comes to climate change but want to make it subjective when it comes to this.

When did science tell you to use chromosomes instead of body morphology to decide when to call someone male or female? ‘We’ don’t want to make it subjective, it is subjective. The people currently discussed who have birth certificates, guess what those certificates are going to say? The opposite of what you say. Why would anyone think a baby who looks and functions like a female isn’t a female?

By the way, here is the incorrigibly woke, liberal rag Forbes weighing in;

Most think chromosomes hold the key to biological sex, but that’s not always the case….

According to the BBC documentary, Me, My Sex and I, “There are about a dozen different conditions that blur the line between male and female. They’re known as disorders of sexual development or DSDs…. Altogether, DSDs occur as frequently as twins or red hair.”

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

OP asked if they were male or female.  Strange how you guys spout about following the science when it comes to climate change but want to make it subjective when it comes to this.

I more or less agree. Using genetic anomalies over and over again to justify treating gender fluid people as normal is just plain wrong. We need to stop doing this and recognize that gender fluidity is a normal thing in human behavior. No justification needed. Just let people be what they are. 

[wmw999 2,122]

Why is gender so important? It has to do with reproduction, but not with a whole lot else that's not social. And social things can change with time.

Wendy P.

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I don't care what they identify as...1 in 15,000 is a statistical zero.  Why do we have to deal with it at all?  They're the only ones who need to deal with it.

Well, yes they have to deal with it, but in the context of a society that doesn't recognize them, or wants to force them into predetermined boxes that don't fit. We've gone past "your father was a baker so you're going to be a baker" and "you're a woman so you're going to be a mommy or a nurse," why not go a little further into functionalism -- "what can you actually do?"

I've been in plenty of restaurants with a single restroom for a man, and a single restroom for a woman. Why on earth shouldn't they both be "whatever, just wash your hands" restrooms?

Wendy P.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

13 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Why is gender so important? It has to do with reproduction, but not with a whole lot else that's not social. And social things can change with time.

Wendy P.

Well, yes they have to deal with it, but in the context of a society that doesn't recognize them, or wants to force them into predetermined boxes that don't fit. We've gone past "your father was a baker so you're going to be a baker" and "you're a woman so you're going to be a mommy or a nurse," why not go a little further into functionalism -- "what can you actually do?"

I've been in plenty of restaurants with a single restroom for a man, and a single restroom for a woman. Why on earth shouldn't they both be "whatever, just wash your hands" restrooms?

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy,

There are a lot of restrooms on this Earth of ours that are just that way.*  IMO it is only this country that has these hangups.

Jerry Baumchen

* I've been in quite a few.  Not one iota of a problem.  It is sort of like eating with your fork in your left hand.  Not wrong, just different.

 

[wmw999 2,122]

18 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said:

IMO it is only this country that has these hangups.

Well, I'm not sure I agree with that... Consider the Middle East, and India (been to those -- in India, they even have separate entry lines for men and women where there is the possibility of a patdown, like religious shrines etc)

Wendy P.

[billvon 2,400]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

Why do we have to deal with it at all?  They're the only ones who need to deal with it.

When a woman gets forced to use a different bathroom because she does not meet the government's definition of their gender, it's an issue.  (As happened in North Carolina recently.)

When they get booted off sports teams they have been on for years because they do not meet the government's definition of their gender, it's an issue.

If they could deal with it as they saw fit it would not be an issue.  Unfortunately many conservatives do not want them to have that right.

Quote

I don't care what they identify as...1 in 15,000 is a statistical zero. 

1) Apparently a great many conservatives care a great deal.  For example, they are screaming bloody murder about a far smaller number of people who get gender reassigmnent surgery before age 18.  (Not saying that you care - but that's one of the reasons it is an issue.)

2) Saying to (for example) a group of Inuit that they are not going to get the same rights as everyone else because they statisticially make up ~0% of the US population does not fly any more (fortunately.)  EVERYONE gets the same rights, period.

[kallend 1,623]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

I don't care what they identify as...1 in 15,000 is a statistical zero. 

No, it's 1 in 15,000.   That's over 20,000 Americans.  

 

Shame on you.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

I don't care what they identify as...1 in 15,000 is a statistical zero.  Why do we have to deal with it at all?  They're the only ones who need to deal with it.

OP asked if they were male or female.  Strange how you guys spout about following the science when it comes to climate change but want to make it subjective when it comes to this.

You sure care a lot about minors having gender reassignment surgery, THAT happens so rarely that it's a 'statistical zero'.

Bill beat me to it:

2 hours ago, billvon said:

When a woman gets forced to use a different bathroom because she does not meet the government's definition of their gender, it's an issue.  (As happened in North Carolina recently.)

When they get booted off sports teams they have been on for years because they do not meet the government's definition of their gender, it's an issue.

If they could deal with it as they saw fit it would not be an issue.  Unfortunately many conservatives do not want them to have that right.

1) Apparently a great many conservatives care a great deal.  For example, they are screaming bloody murder about a far smaller number of people who get gender reassigmnent surgery before age 18.  (Not saying that you care - but that's one of the reasons it is an issue.)

2) Saying to (for example) a group of Inuit that they are not going to get the same rights as everyone else because they statisticially make up ~0% of the US population does not fly any more (fortunately.)  EVERYONE gets the same rights, period.

There are far, far, faaaaaaaar too many people who insist on making it their business.

Usually dressed up in 'protecting the children' bullshit.

Helpful hint: More members of the US Congress (both Senators & Representatives) have been caught pulling 'bathroom shenanigans' than trans people.

Maybe, if the states wanted to really protect the children, they'd ban those people from bathrooms instead of insisting trans men & women use the 'wrong' one.

[airdvr 197]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

No, it's 1 in 15,000.   That's over 20,000 Americans.  

 

Shame on you.

No shame here Boss.  It's your world...

[wmw999 2,122]

16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

No shame here Boss.  It's your world...

It’s our world. The change is that now people can find each other; Mass communications and easier travel has made that happen 

Wendy P 

[kallend 1,623]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

No shame here Boss.  It's your world...

You should be ashamed for dismissing thousands of people ("statistical zero") just because they don't conform to your mistaken right wing  ideas about biology.

[airdvr 197]

8 hours ago, kallend said:

You should be ashamed for dismissing thousands of people ("statistical zero") just because they don't conform to your mistaken right wing  ideas about biology.

I should be ashamed?  You should be ashamed for participating in a program that saddled 24 million with loans they cannot repay.  

Average Student Loan Debt
$1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
$28,950 owed per borrower on average
About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Sources: Federal Reserve, The Institute for College Access and Success, College Board, MeasureOne

All this so perfessers like yourself can have fancy cars and aircraft.  Let he who is without sin....

 

[Phil1111 911]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I should be ashamed?  You should be ashamed for participating in a program that saddled 24 million with loans they cannot repay.  

Average Student Loan Debt
$1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
$28,950 owed per borrower on average
About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Sources: Federal Reserve, The Institute for College Access and Success, College Board, MeasureOne

All this so perfessers like yourself can have fancy cars and aircraft.  Let he who is without sin....

 

A typical example of the anti-education bias of republicans.If your a businessman or salesman the American success story is to be admired.

Or how educated Libs can be owned by the uneducated masses.

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

I should be ashamed?  You should be ashamed for participating in a program that saddled 24 million with loans they cannot repay.  

Average Student Loan Debt
$1.75 trillion in total student loan debt (including federal and private loans)
$28,950 owed per borrower on average
About 92% of all student debt are federal student loans; the remaining amount is private student loans
55% of students from public four-year institutions had student loans
57% of students from private nonprofit four-year institutions took on education debt
Sources: Federal Reserve, The Institute for College Access and Success, College Board, MeasureOne

All this so perfessers like yourself can have fancy cars and aircraft.  Let he who is without sin....

 

You KNOW you're wrong, which is why you came up with an irrelevant and inaccurate distraction.