Does anyone ever pull their reserve before repack?

[DJL 232]

Kevin, he's probably talking about a situation I heard about also. A rigger just grabbed some E thread to attach his seal and then wrapped it around several times. It took another rigger two arms and a lot of force to break the thread. It was finally the thread slipping through the seal, not the thread breaking that allowed the pin to move.

I'll see if I can find that post.
Here's one: E Thread used for seal thread

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Yossarian 0]

whats this lead seal thing? and how is a reserve packed? anyone got a link to some pics?

[Orange1 0]

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whats this lead seal thing?

um...you should see it on a gear check?

are there any containers where the reserve pin (and seal) are not visible on a normal gear check? (i've only ever had to check 2 types...)

Edited to add: sorry just saw from his profile he is British and an earlier poster said lead seals not mandatory under BPA

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[krkeenan 0]

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are there any containers where the reserve pin (and seal) are not visible on a normal gear check? (i've only ever had to check 2 types...)

On a Racer-type container, the pins are against the wearer's back, so they can't be checked while wearing the rig.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[Yossarian 0]

what does it do? is it an anti-tamper thing?

[Orange1 0]

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On a Racer-type container, the pins are against the wearer's back, so they can't be checked while wearing the rig.

Kevin

but you can before you put it on?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[dragon2 0]

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Quote

On a Racer-type container, the pins are against the wearer's back, so they can't be checked while wearing the rig.

Kevin

but you can before you put it on?

You SHOULD before you put it on

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skytash 0]

always - gives me an idea of what pulling is likely to actually by like in an emergency situation.

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[krkeenan 0]

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what does it do? is it an anti-tamper thing?

This is the practice in the United States. Theoretically, pulling the pin is the only way to open the reserve container. The seal, which has the rigger's FAA-issued identifier symbol, assures the integrity of the pack - that the reserve container has not been opened since the rigger inspected and repacked it.

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[altichick 0]

You wont usually see them in the UK but it is a small lead disc with a riggers code stamped on it.

FAA rules

Not required in the UK (BPA rules)

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[The111 0]

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With all that to consider, a rigging certificate is a pretty good investment from a financial perspective. Plus it gives you knowledge about your gear. On top of that, it just makes life easier if you don't need to schedule a drop off time and pick up time for your rig, and if you are doing it yourself your rigs should always be in date without too much worry.

Tom,

I've heard an opposite opinion expressed by some riggers, in regards to someone getting a rigging certificate just to pack his own shit (I am somewhat interested in this myself, but have not found the TIME to go through the process). I have been told by several riggers that there is a "currency" factor to consider in packing reserves, just like in jumping. According to this logic, if I am only packing 3 reserves a year (my own), I am probably "rusty" every time I do it and am therefore not making phenomenal packjobs, or worse, am likely to forget an important step.

What is your opinion on this? Valid concern, or are these riggers just trying to protect their trade?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[tombuch 0]

Quote

I've heard an opposite opinion expressed by some riggers, in regards to someone getting a rigging certificate just to pack his own shit (I am somewhat interested in this myself, but have not found the TIME to go through the process). I have been told by several riggers that there is a "currency" factor to consider in packing reserves, just like in jumping. According to this logic, if I am only packing 3 reserves a year (my own), I am probably "rusty" every time I do it and am therefore not making phenomenal packjobs, or worse, am likely to forget an important step.

What is your opinion on this? Valid concern, or are these riggers just trying to protect their trade?

Yup, valid concern. I was addressing the cost benefit issue and the dollar value of the rating. Three pack jobs per year isn't much. I keep my own two rigs current, and that's about it. I make it a point to read the manual every time, and it always takes me a few trys to get the canopy in the bag at a level of quality I can be happy with. When I seal the rig and sign the car I'm always comfortable with the pack jobs. When I need sewing or other special work I'm happy to take the rig to a Master Rigger.

The benefit of the rating is more than just dollars, but there is also a requirement that a part time rigger know his own limits and be willing to seek assistance when needed.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[The111 0]

Thanks. My interest in it is not based on money, but on having personal accountability for what is on my back. It would be satisfying for me to know I packed my own reserve.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mark 102]

Quote

Quote

I've heard an opposite opinion expressed by some riggers, in regards to someone getting a rigging certificate just to pack his own shit (I am somewhat interested in this myself, but have not found the TIME to go through the process). I have been told by several riggers that there is a "currency" factor to consider in packing reserves, just like in jumping. According to this logic, if I am only packing 3 reserves a year (my own), I am probably "rusty" every time I do it and am therefore not making phenomenal packjobs, or worse, am likely to forget an important step.

What is your opinion on this? Valid concern, or are these riggers just trying to protect their trade?

Yup, valid concern.

Not just a valid concern, but a legal issue as well. Here's FAR 65.129(f)(1): "No certificated parachute rigger may exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he has performed duties under his certificate for at least 90 days within the preceding 12 months."

Packing your own main parachute does not require exercising the privileges of a rigger certificate, so it's unlikely a "I just pack my own rigs" rigger could stay current enough to legally pack any rigs at all.

The libertarian in me says as long as you're doing only your own rigs, there's no harm.

Mark

[wmw999 2,122]

I only do mine as well. However, I go over to my friend the master rigger's loft, and we shoot the breeze while I pack. Keeps me honest, and I end up with a much better pack job.

I will say I find packing square reserves to be much harder than packing round ones

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Now I would think it to be a damn good idea to pull your reserve every time you take it in, just to see if the rigger is doing his job. No?

It is such a good idea it is even in the SIM, but not for the reason you cite.

Section 5-1. A.5

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[grasshopper 0]

Not just a valid concern, but a legal issue as well. Here's FAR 65.129(f)(1): "No certificated parachute rigger may exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he has performed duties under his certificate for at least 90 days within the preceding 12 months."

Packing your own main parachute does not require exercising the privileges of a rigger certificate, so it's unlikely a "I just pack my own rigs" rigger could stay current enough to legally pack any rigs at all.

The libertarian in me says as long as you're doing only your own rigs, there's no harm.

Mark

[The111 0]

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Here's FAR 65.129(f)(1): "No certificated parachute rigger may exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he has performed duties under his certificate for at least 90 days within the preceding 12 months."

That wording is confusing. Does it mean you need to do "rigger work" 90 days per year? I don't even SKYDIVE that often!

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[mark 102]

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That wording is confusing. Does it mean you need to do "rigger work" 90 days per year?

The intent is clear: a rigger should be current if he or she is working on life-support equipment.

And yes, it does mean you need to do "rigger work" 90 days per year, work you need a rigger certificate to do.

But I don't think anyone has defined what a day of rigging work is. I don't know if that's 90 8-hour days, or 90 days in which each day you do some rigging task (and does it count as a full day if the task of the day takes only 5 minutes); and is that 90 days out of the 250 or so weekdays per year, or is working 40-hour weeks for 3 months sufficient?

I don't know of any case where the FAA has attempted to enforce this regulation. You're probably on the safe side if you are an active rigger. And you're probably safe from enforcement if you work only on your own personal gear, even though you are less likely to be up on current best practices.

Mark

[Tenshi 0]

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Thanks. My interest in it is not based on money, but on having personal accountability for what is on my back. It would be satisfying for me to know I packed my own reserve.

Errr...my interest wasn't in the money either. But I have neurotic issues and I would be happier packing my own reserve. Furthermore...I would consider BASE as an alternative for (the seeminly obligatory disciplines that are) freefly and swooping. The Anglosaxon Base crew seem to think it's not a bad idea to become a rigger if you're considering BASE.

Anyway:
- Becoming a rigger was not really the issue at hand (but it is interesting nevertheless)
- This is merely for future reference

[billvon 2,400]

>According to this logic, if I am only packing 3 reserves a year (my own),
> I am probably "rusty" every time I do it and am therefore not making
> phenomenal packjobs, or worse, am likely to forget an important step.

A lot of people get the rigger's rating to 'just pack their own reserves.' I have found after a few years they are either:

1. packing a lot of reserves for other people
2. not packing any reserves; just pencil packing their own reserves (easier once you have a seal.)

[Capt36 6]

Whenever possible, I either watch, or do the pull, usually wearing the rig. Rigger Billy pulled it once, while it was on the packing table. The reserve spring was so 'dead', that the pilot never even reached the flourescent lights, 4-5 feet above the table!!!!!!
He replaced the pilot, before he would even consider the repack. (The 'bad' pilot was a used one, bought in Europe, after I lost mine to a forest of tall pines..... So, beware of possible spring problems, with used pilots.....).
A couple of repacks later, the same check knocked over a box of rubber bands, sitting on a table, almost 10 feet away. I was standing/wearing the rig, when I did that pull.

Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless beauty...

And, give money for Mr Douglas! www.mrdouglas.org

[G.Anvil 0]

Could someone post a picture of a seal, being from the UK I've never seen one either.

I'm trying to imagine where / how they are attached without becoming another risk?

[altichick 0]

There's a pic of thread placement here

And a picture with the seal (not great quality picture) here (the seal is the small disc to the left of the reserve pin in the picture)

BPA does it slightly differently see here (form F215) for a drawing.

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[rasmack 0]

I bring my rig to my rigger's loft in person and pull the handles before I leave. So far he has not failed to ask me if there was anything I wanted to see while we had it open.

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...