Socialism v Capitalism

[brenthutch 384]

15 hours ago, airdvr said:

So we're switching to healthcare now?  I'm in agreement that the US system needs to move to single payer.  Wouldn't make us a socialist country however.

If California rejected single payer, I don’t see the rest of the country buying in.

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

On 2/4/2022 at 8:45 PM, metalslug said:

What are you implying by this ?  ..that migrants from other countries should not be welcome if that country is alleged to be either socialist or communist ?  Is it inconceivable to you that Trump (or the 'right' for that matter) would be aware that all migrants are not necessarily responsible for the type of government in their country of origin?  I'm not quite following why you would find it strange for Trump to welcome migrants from Norway.

 

It's a reference to Trump calling African countries "shitholes", and wondering why we don't bring more people in from "nice countries" and specifically mentioned Norway.

Rather racist and simpleminded of him, as usual.

It's funny that people call stuff like free healthcare (paid for by the government, which means from tax revenues) and free college education (paid the same way) 'socialism', yet when it's pointed out that lots of countries, not just Norway, have that and more, they say 'that place isn't really 'socialist'.

Kind of hypocritical that they decry certain programs as 'socialism', yet the places that have those things in place are NOT 'socialist' countries.

Maybe it's because they don't actually know or understand what 'socialism' means.

Or maybe they just like throwing around pejoratives.

Harry Truman put it nicely:
 

Quote

Socialism is a scareword they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years. Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security. Socialism is what they called farm price supports. Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance. Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations. Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.

HARRY S. TRUMAN, speech, Oct. 10, 1952

 

[airdvr 197]

That's great.  A 70 year old quote.  Think things might have changed since then?

[JoeWeber 2,306]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

That's great.  A 70 year old quote.  Think things might have changed since then?

Nope. Socialism is also when governments build and support airports so that users, including Parachute Centers, can operate at an affordable rate for the public good. Unless you made every last one of your jumps at privately owned airports that have never accepted a penny of airport grant money you are a socialist. In fact, your participation here on Dropzone.com, is firm evidence that your identity is strongly tied to an activity supported by socialist policies. Have a great jump, comrade.

[billvon 2,402]

31 minutes ago, airdvr said:

That's great.  A 70 year old quote.  Think things might have changed since then?

Given that we still have public utilities, and social security, and farm price supports, and the FDIC - nope, not significantly.

[brenthutch 384]

Socialism is based on the writings of Karl Marx.  If is is not underpinned by Marxism it is not socialism.  

[olofscience 422]

32 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Socialism is based on the writings of Karl Marx.  If is is not underpinned by Marxism it is not socialism.  

Says who?

You barely read the titles of the stuff you post here, have you read the writings of Marx?  I haven't - I tried reading Das Kapital, but I kept falling asleep...

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

4 hours ago, airdvr said:

That's great.  A 70 year old quote.  Think things might have changed since then?

Well, 'they' are calling universal health care 'socialism'.

And tuition free colleges.

And 'green energy' subsidies.
And 'anything that helps all the people', instead of just the rich.

So, no.

Not much has changed since then.

[ryoder 1,390]

9 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Says who?

You barely read the titles of the stuff you post here, have you read the writings of Marx?  I haven't - I tried reading Das Kapital, but I kept falling asleep...

Same here.

I wanted to read it to see how much correlation there was between what he wrote and how the so-called "communist" governments actually implemented it. (My suspicion is: Very little). But after repeated attempts to read the mind-numbing thing, I now have doubts that anyone claiming to have read it, really did.

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

8 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Same here.

I wanted to read it to see how much correlation there was between what he wrote and how the so-called "communist" governments actually implemented it. (My suspicion is: Very little). But after repeated attempts to read the mind-numbing thing, I now have doubts that anyone claiming to have read it, really did.

Well, the biggest problem with real communism is...

People.

The 'totalitarian' stage is supposed to only be temporary, moving on to the 'true communal' stage.
It's a shame that the totalitarians in power never (ever) are willing to take the step where they give the 'power' back to the people (who would likely just fuck it up anyway).

[brenthutch 384]

2 hours ago, olofscience said:

 I tried reading but I kept falling asleep...

That is pretty obvious 

[olofscience 422]

26 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

That is pretty obvious 

wow, a joke! your first one? 

[brenthutch 384]

38 minutes ago, olofscience said:

wow, a joke! your first one? 

I wasn’t kidding 

[olofscience 422]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I wasn’t kidding 

keep telling yourself that 

[kallend 1,632]

8 hours ago, airdvr said:

That's great.  A 70 year old quote.  Think things might have changed since then?

So how do you feel about a 200+ year old Constitution?  Again, you demonstrate that you don't really understand what you are writing about.

[airdvr 197]

16 hours ago, kallend said:

So how do you feel about a 200+ year old Constitution?  Again, you demonstrate that you don't really understand what you are writing about.

Comparing a quote to the Constitution?  If you mix apples and oranges together with some wine you get a nice sangria.

[billvon 2,402]

6 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Comparing a quote to the Constitution?

Nope.  Pointing out that you think a 70 year old quote isn't really relevant because it's so old - but a 240 year old document is SUPER relevant.

[airdvr 197]

It seems to me that we've doubled down on government spending for social programs over the last 70 years...and then some.  We're so far in debt I would consider it dangerous.  How much further should we go?  

In 1952 social programs accounted for 1.2% of GDP.  By 2010 it was close to 5%.  I didn't get into the past 2+ years but it was phenomenal.

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

31 minutes ago, airdvr said:

It seems to me that we've doubled down on government spending for social programs over the last 70 years...and then some.  We're so far in debt I would consider it dangerous.  How much further should we go?  

In 1952 social programs accounted for 1.2% of GDP.  By 2010 it was close to 5%.  I didn't get into the past 2+ years but it was phenomenal.

Hi airdvr,

And the Interstate Highway System did not begin until 1955.

Would you prefer it not be in existence?

Jerry Baumchen 

PS)  Ever price a 1952 fire truck to a 2022 model?

[JoeWeber 2,306]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

It seems to me that we've doubled down on government spending for social programs over the last 70 years...and then some.  We're so far in debt I would consider it dangerous.  How much further should we go?  

In 1952 social programs accounted for 1.2% of GDP.  By 2010 it was close to 5%.  I didn't get into the past 2+ years but it was phenomenal.

You sell commercial real estate but don't grasp leverage for investment purposes? 

[airdvr 197]

22 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

You sell commercial real estate but don't grasp leverage for investment purposes? 

If you think 30 trillion is leverage for investment you need a new financial advisor

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[JerryBaumchen 1,049]

7 minutes ago, airdvr said:

If you think 30 trillion is leverage for investment you need a new financial advisor

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Hi airdvr,

What is good is that we can agree to disagree.

If you are concerned about the US Debt Clock, I strongly suggest that you look at the US military budget.  That is one fat item in the US budget.

Jerry Baumchen

A veteran

 

[JoeWeber 2,306]

15 minutes ago, airdvr said:

If you think 30 trillion is leverage for investment you need a new financial advisor

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

I live on a yacht in the Caribbean and do my own financial planning. But thanks for more great advice.

[Phil1111 912]

1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi airdvr,

What is good is that we can agree to disagree.

If you are concerned about the US Debt Clock, I strongly suggest that you look at the US military budget.  That is one fat item in the US budget.

Jerry Baumchen

A veteran

 

Don't let airdvr and FOX take you for a spin. Its a big lie developed by GOP spinmeisters.

[rifleman 61]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:53 PM, brenthutch said:

What does the second S in the USSR stand for?  I forgot.

Soviet