Socialism v Capitalism

[airdvr 197]

A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[ryoder 1,384]

21 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

What does the D in DPRK stand for?

I was still a kid when I figured out that a reliable way to identify which countries on a map were autocracies, just by looking for the ones that contained 2 or 3 of the words "democratic",  "peoples", "republic", or "socialist" in their official names.

Edited February 5, 2022 by ryoder

[billvon 2,400]

16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Show me a socialist government that is working or has worked.

Ours.

Military - socialist.
State health care (Medicare/Medicaid) - socialist.
Police and fire - socialist (mostly.)
Public utilities - socialist (mostly.)
CDC, FAA, air traffic control, FEMA, FBI, CIA - socialist.
Roads - socialist.

The reason our country works so well is we take bits and pieces of all the other systems out there.  We have a democracy, but not a pure one (we use representation.)  We don't have a king but we have a president who is a lot more powerful than a prime minister.  We have a capitalist consumer economy, but a socialist set of public welfare organizations.  We have a communist national park system but we often charge admission.

Any one of those ideologies is toxic by itself.  By blending them we reduce the toxicity.

[winsor 186]

3 minutes ago, ryoder said:

I was still a kid when I figured out that a reliable way to identify which countries on a map were autocracies, just by looking for the ones that contained 2 or 3 of the words "democratic",  "peoples", or "republic", in their official names.

Upon entering the USSR we were lectured on how such Bourgeois institutions as tipping were considered offensive to the proud residents of the Socialist Worker's Paradise.

At dinner, my father tipped just like he would have in New York.

Any time that we showed up thereafter, the staff were tripping over each other in order to serve him.

So much for being insulted by a generous tip.

In a 'free market economy' the best you can hope for from the government is an impartial referee.  If governmental employees have skin in the game, it becomes corrupt immediately.

You can quibble all you want about the definitions of various systems of government, but I'll take Switzerland over Venezuela any day.

 

BSBD,

Winsor

[airdvr 197]

8 minutes ago, billvon said:

Ours.

Military - socialist.
State health care (Medicare/Medicaid) - socialist.
Police and fire - socialist (mostly.)
Public utilities - socialist (mostly.)
CDC, FAA, air traffic control, FEMA, FBI, CIA - socialist.
Roads - socialist.

The reason our country works so well is we take bits and pieces of all the other systems out there.  We have a democracy, but not a pure one (we use representation.)  We don't have a king but we have a president who is a lot more powerful than a prime minister.  We have a capitalist consumer economy, but a socialist set of public welfare organizations.  We have a communist national park system but we often charge admission.

Any one of those ideologies is toxic by itself.  By blending them we reduce the toxicity.

Now of the things on your list are socialist.  They are paid for by taxes.

[billvon 2,400]

8 minutes ago, airdvr said:

Now of the things on your list are socialist.  They are paid for by taxes.

Yes.  That's how socialism works.

Here's a real world example.  Republicans in Virginia want more free stuff for their roads.  They want to abolish tolls.  To make it easier to not pay parking tickets or fines.  To reduce fees of all sorts on motorists.  At one point they even mention that money for law enforcement on roads "should be funded from general taxes" instead of from fees lawbreakers pay.

In other words, to do what every Republican dreams of - get more free stuff, break the law, not be held accountable and have someone else pay for it all.

https://dailytorch.com/2022/01/an-open-letter-to-virginia-republican-lawmakers-in-support-of-a-motorist-bill-of-rights/?fbclid=IwAR1AzUTkuD8NbsgIzZV23ksKpvIQhFMWysj_JOL2JLUdvFbUxUSKXijgsNM

[brenthutch 383]

One more try

so·cial·ism

/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

[gowlerk 1,912]

6 hours ago, airdvr said:

Show me a socialist government that is working or has worked.

Have you ever heard the term "mixed economy"? Show me a pure capitalist economy that works. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by gowlerk

[billvon 2,400]

29 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Have you ever heard the term "mixed economy"? Show me a pure capitalist economy that works. 

Yep.  Even the most capitalist country in the world - Singapore - has a large amount of socialist government supports for industry and its people.

[metalslug 31]

6 hours ago, billvon said:

Ours.

Military - socialist.
State health care (Medicare/Medicaid) - socialist.
Police and fire - socialist (mostly.)
Public utilities - socialist (mostly.)
CDC, FAA, air traffic control, FEMA, FBI, CIA - socialist.
Roads - socialist.

The reason our country works so well is we take bits and pieces of all the other systems out there.  We have a democracy, but not a pure one (we use representation.)  We don't have a king but we have a president who is a lot more powerful than a prime minister.  We have a capitalist consumer economy, but a socialist set of public welfare organizations.  We have a communist national park system but we often charge admission.

Any one of those ideologies is toxic by itself.  By blending them we reduce the toxicity.

Agreed on all of that except the first word.. 'Ours'. As others have pointed out; none of that makes the US a 'socialist government' per the correct definition. Therefore, if yourself or others are arguing that 'republicans think all of the above are bad because they incorporate socialist concepts' then that's sounding like a strawman.

I suspect the original point of the OP is perhaps that this 'blend' (as a reference to your 'blending them') may be changing, specifically in a negative direction.

[billvon 2,400]

33 minutes ago, metalslug said:

Agreed on all of that except the first word.. 'Ours'. As others have pointed out; none of that makes the US a 'socialist government' per the correct definition. 

Nor does it make it a "capitalist government."  It has elements of both.

[airdvr 197]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

Nor does it make it a "capitalist government."  It has elements of both.

You're confusing economies,,,deliberately too.

[kallend 1,623]

9 hours ago, airdvr said:

A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Ignorance is 100% curable.

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

You're confusing economies,,,deliberately too.

Nope.  Capitalism is both a political and economic system.  So is socialism.  So is communism.  

I put "capitalist government" in quotes because such a term is woefully incomplete, as is "socialist government."   We have elements of both.

As MS posited, "this 'blend' may be changing."  That is quite true; it changes all the time.  We now have much stricter limits on welfare, for example.

[airdvr 197]

12 hours ago, kallend said:

Ignorance is 100% curable.

Sorry to hear you're not feeling well.  Let me know when you're cured.

[kallend 1,623]

Unfortunately the US healthcare "system", run along capitalist lines, has MUCH poorer outcomes than the socialist systems found in every other developed nation.  We rank even below some second world nations in things like infant mortality, maternal mortality, and life expectancy.

But you know that and choose to ignore it.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

2 hours ago, kallend said:

Unfortunately the US healthcare "system", run along capitalist lines, has MUCH poorer outcomes than the socialist systems found in every other developed nation.  We rank even below some second world nations in things like infant mortality, maternal mortality, and life expectancy.

But you know that and choose to ignore it.

Hi John,

For too many people, ignorance is bliss.

Jerry Baumchen

[Phil1111 911]

On 2/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, billvon said:

...In other words, to do what every Republican dreams of - get more free stuff, break the law, not be held accountable and have someone else pay for it all....

 

[airdvr 197]

5 hours ago, kallend said:

Unfortunately the US healthcare "system", run along capitalist lines, has MUCH poorer outcomes than the socialist systems found in every other developed nation.  We rank even below some second world nations in things like infant mortality, maternal mortality, and life expectancy.

But you know that and choose to ignore it.

So we're switching to healthcare now?  I'm in agreement that the US system needs to move to single payer.  Wouldn't make us a socialist country however.

[billvon 2,400]

2 minutes ago, airdvr said:

So we're switching to healthcare now?  I'm in agreement that the US system needs to move to single payer.  Wouldn't make us a socialist country however.

Exactly!  It would merely make it more socialist than it is now.  And it would be an improvement.

[airdvr 197]

The original question was S v C.  Probably too vague for it to not wander off like it has.

[billvon 2,400]

47 minutes ago, airdvr said:

The original question was S v C.  Probably too vague for it to not wander off like it has.

Well, the original post was not a question; it was an Internet meme that purported that city centers in capitalist countries look better than city centers in communist countries.

Of course, you could find similar pictures of the USSR where in 1980 it looked great and today looks like a dystopian nightmare.  Around Ukraine, for example.

[kallend 1,623]

3 hours ago, airdvr said:

So we're switching to healthcare now? 

YOU wrote:
 

"Sorry to hear you're not feeling well.  Let me know when you're cured."

So look in the mirror.

 

[richravizza 25]

Dare I mention the letter Z. 

[Phil1111 911]

Communism is an outdated concept. As the has been communist states have mostly morphed into autocracies. Russia, China, Cuba as examples. There is no longer voting within the systems to elect the equivalent of a politburo. Now its all to protect the insiders who are rewarded with cash.

On the flip side capitalism has morphed a bit as well. The GOP for example uses tax statutes to protect special interest groups. Those groups then reward the insiders(politicians) with cash. The party gerrymanders....We all know the rest as Lord Acton suggested.