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skydived19006

Rich Winstock Swoop Incident Cover-Up

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DSE


I'm still awaiting Doug_Davis' explanation of how he's experienced Rich's previous behaviors. My money says he got the same anonymous email from a USPA BOD member that several other people received.
Doug?
(This post was edited by DSE on May 22, 2014, 10:15 AM)



You got the explanation in a PM, which you responded to via PM at 9:40am this morning before editing this post at 10:15am calling me out. :S

So you had already received the explanation and responded to it, before adding that edit.

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As for Rich's mistake - he made a mistake. Everyone criticizing him has never made a mistake while jumping, right?



Mistake? It was a DELIBERATE act that caused injury to a 3rd party, and I very much doubt that most of his critics have done that.

This sort of "mistake" is unacceptable from the person in charge of safety and training. He should relinquish that office and if he won't go voluntarily, then he should be pushed.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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airtwardo

***>the 'witch hunt' sewing circle hand wringing defame at any cost - bandwagon I see
>picking up speed with nobody driving.

A "witch hunt" is a search for someone who did nothing wrong so you can blame them for something. In this case no one (including Rich) disputes that Rich did something very wrong and put a bystander in the hospital.

Now, if you want to blame someone ELSE for what he did, that would be a witch hunt.




Debateable semantics Bill...

~when the thread we're posting to proclaims:

Rich Winstock Swoop Incident Cover-Up

And no proof of such had been forthcoming I'd call it a bit of a hunt...

When we're being urged to google the guy in regard to a past 'conviction' that in reality has nothing to do with the incident being discussed & IMO is referenced ONLY as character assassination...I call it a bit Whichy. :ph34r:

ESPECIALLY since the 'conviction' part isn't really clear....:)

Since (1) He has admitted that it is entirely his fault (see thread in "Incidents" forum), (2) you don't swoop a spectator area by accident, and (3) he hit and injured a person sitting in the bleachers, how much more do you need?

Looking up past incidents is a perfectly valid way to see if there is a pattern of behavior.

We wouldn't make the captain of the Exxon Valdiz the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, or Rod Blagojevitch the Attorney General. And this gentleman shouldn't be the head of S&T for USPA.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend



Since (1) He has admitted that it is entirely his fault (see thread in "Incidents" forum), (2) you don't swoop a spectator area by accident, and (3) he hit and injured a person sitting in the bleachers, how much more do you need?

Looking up past incidents is a perfectly valid way to see if there is a pattern of behavior.

We wouldn't make the captain of the Exxon Valdiz the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, or Rod Blagojevitch the Attorney General. And this gentleman shouldn't be the head of S&T for USPA.



Agreed
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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Mistake? It was a DELIBERATE act that caused injury to a 3rd party, and I very much doubt that most of his critics have done that.

This sort of "mistake" is unacceptable from the person in charge of safety and training. He should relinquish that office and if he won't go voluntarily, then he should be pushed.



Agreed. Someone who is in a leadership role should have a higher standard of conduct in order to lead by example. Swooping near spectators shouldn't even have been on his radar of acceptable behavior.

I'm sure Rich is a nice guy, but for him to remain Chairman of Safety and Training is a joke.
She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

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Agreed

The vice principal that escorted the Korean students on the ferry that sank. Stepped down from his position with a rope connected to his neck.

Definitely two extreme in this case. Just stepping down would be good enough.Rich could still run for the position again.And might even get reelected
One Jump Wonder

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skymama

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Mistake? It was a DELIBERATE act that caused injury to a 3rd party, and I very much doubt that most of his critics have done that.

This sort of "mistake" is unacceptable from the person in charge of safety and training. He should relinquish that office and if he won't go voluntarily, then he should be pushed.



Agreed. Someone who is in a leadership role should have a higher standard of conduct in order to lead by example. Swooping near spectators shouldn't even have been on his radar of acceptable behavior.

I'm sure Rich is a nice guy, but for him to remain Chairman of Safety and Training is a joke.



Agreed, however we may need to reexamine the current position and past actions of more BOD members than just Rich if this takes off.....
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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As for Rich's mistake - he made a mistake. Everyone criticizing him has never made a mistake while jumping, right?


Mistake, eh? Far worse than any mistake I ever heard of.
Quote

Mistake? It was a DELIBERATE act that caused injury to a 3rd party, and I very much doubt that most of his critics have done that. A mistake that may cause him to lose everything he has. This sort of "mistake" is unacceptable from the person in charge of safety and training. He should relinquish that office and if he won't go voluntarily, then he should be pushed.


Totally agreed. Or driven out, banished, etc...I think he should lose his DZ as well. Jeez, if that had been one of us, we would have felt the swift sword of justice immediately. If he has any gumption at all, he shouldn't be putting anyone in harms way legally for something he did all by him self. Swooping the peanut gallery is highly unacceptable, no excuses, NONE.
Richard, step down before you cause USPA and the BOD any further embarrassment, or legal trouble that we, the members of the USPA will wind up paying for one way or another. C'mon man, do the right thing. Todd and Gary, you guys should be seeing to this, (As I'm sure that you are already are) along with everyone else on the BOD. Nuff said. Richard, I want to hear from you in these very forums, what would you have done to a sky diver that performed this stunt? Be honest.

Best-Richard

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grimmie

My favorite is when one BOD DZO tried to deny nearby airport access to another BOD DZO.

No $hit? Talk about an abuse of power. I thought the USPA was all about promoting skydiving. I'd call for a resignation right there.

My home DZ competes by having the best aircraft, best student program and lowest jump rates around. That back stabbing stuff is chicken$hit. :|

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Hate to tell you this newsflash.... but yes there are BOD members who are DZO's, who would do that, just like there are BOD members who step up to help their "friends" that go around doing shit like that.

Then you have the USPA HQ buddy network, where if you suck the right cock you get all kinds of little pretty feel good bits in the mag, right before an election....

Then there is the long history of USPA covering up shit! This little Rich Winstock thing is nothing, a flee fart at best. Many of you wouldn't know a cover up if it bitch slapped you in the face. Many of the membership are blind fools, most who fail to vote, and those that do, do so on a popularity contest.

Because if you did know WTF is really going on then people like Ms. Bucther wouldn't be holding the seats she has held.... Being one of "Glen's Girl's" will not only open doors for you but put's you in the "good old boy's club".

You all need to wake the fuck up and clean house and that need to be done a LONG time ago and Rich is pretty far down the list, yea he fucked up big time, but he wasn't doing shit that brings down whole airplanes of people, like some others.
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Doug_Davis

***
I'm still awaiting Doug_Davis' explanation of how he's experienced Rich's previous behaviors. My money says he got the same anonymous email from a USPA BOD member that several other people received.
Doug?
(This post was edited by DSE on May 22, 2014, 10:15 AM)



You got the explanation in a PM, which you responded to via PM at 9:40am this morning before editing this post at 10:15am calling me out. :S

So you had already received the explanation and responded to it, before adding that edit.

Nope, you shared with me that "A BOD member shared information with you."
Your post indicates that you have first-hand knowledge.
I suggest you have hearsay.
They aren't the same thing. If you submit that one BOD member is criminal in his actions, then you have to accept that there are other BOD members that might lie, cheat, make up things that aren't true, or bend the truth to fit a mold.

in other words, you don't know anything about the topic you're suggesting you know something about.
Did you talk to the President of USPA? Did you personally speak with anyone involved with the investigations? Did you call the BOD member in question?
Or that you'd just accept one email from a disgruntled BOD member because it fits your facts?
No wonder you never made detective in the NYPD.;)

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http://www.nj.com/sussex-county/index.ssf/2014/03/two_hurt_in_skydiving_mishap_during_safety_day_at_sussex_airport.html

It's in open source. Does not appear to be much of a cover-up to me. How USPA chooses to deal with it may be another matter.

This is just another one in a long list of cases where skydivers are often their own worst enemies, both individually and collectively.

I am generally supportive of USPA and think it fills an important role. If, however, we don’t like who is leading and representing us, then we need look no farther than ourselves, the people who elect them. If you run a cool DZ, have a fast-climbing airplane, or are perceived as a shit-hot skydiver the USPA membership (or at least the small percentage who vote regularly) seem willing to overlook a lot. In our national and regional leadership we have variously elected (often multiple times) people with some serious issues, both skydiving and non-skydiving related, to include criminal behavior and causing skydiving fatalities. Some may see the non-skydiving issues these folks have had as irrelevant, but I’m not sure I like what it says about their character and judgment. For careless skydiving safety practices that kill and injure, there is no excuse.

All of the above is part of the reason that no one outside of skydiving takes skydiving seriously. We claim to be a self-policing sport, but really don’t do a very good job of it whether from the standpoint of the leadership setting the example, or the membership actively participating in changing the leadership.

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***My favorite is when one BOD DZO tried to deny nearby airport access to another BOD DZO.

How many folks remember the BOD member that was impeached?
According to USPA by-laws he was to be removed from office.
Instead he was impeached behind closed doors and got a hand slap - behind closed doors. Bet that really hurt!
This is the same kind of gig.
AAP

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For careless skydiving safety practices that kill and injure, there is no excuse.



Yup! B|


But back to the incident being discussed...


Just out of curiosity - Has anyone voicing their strong opinions regarding the character & alleged reckless behavior of this BOD member actually spoken with him about what happened?

Or for that matter anybody talk to Tyfani to get her take on what happened?

Maybe it's just me, but when I step back and look at the big picture as far as the discussions thus far - it seems a fair amount of speculation & hearsay is being considered absolute and verifiable fact.

I've seen a few 'testimonials' given by people that say they were there and witnessed the incident, yet even their recollections don't seem to match.

I see where there have been a couple investigations by the governing body and their findings didn't seem to deem expulsion necessary.

Again...maybe it's just me - but I'll reserve judgement until ALL the facts are on the table & that just isn't the case here...yet.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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normiss

Fine.

Let's hear their stories.



Sorry Mark

But do you want to hear the stories or the facts.

There appears to be lots of stories, he said she said.

Finding out the real facts after this much time has passed is going to be hard to do. It's like rich has lawyer'd up and now gets a redo.

Bs is Way to deep for this kid.

Time for my milk and cookies, and my nap. Deal me out.[:/]
One Jump Wonder

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airtwardo

Quote

For careless skydiving safety practices that kill and injure, there is no excuse.



Yup! B|


But back to the incident being discussed...


Just out of curiosity - Has anyone voicing their strong opinions regarding the character & alleged reckless behavior of this BOD member actually spoken with him about what happened?

Or for that matter anybody talk to Tyfani to get her take on what happened?

Maybe it's just me, but when I step back and look at the big picture as far as the discussions thus far - it seems a fair amount of speculation & hearsay is being considered absolute and verifiable fact.

I've seen a few 'testimonials' given by people that say they were there and witnessed the incident, yet even their recollections don't seem to match.

I see where there have been a couple investigations by the governing body and their findings didn't seem to deem expulsion necessary.

Again...maybe it's just me - but I'll reserve judgement until ALL the facts are on the table & that just isn't the case here...yet.



I've been following this thread pretty closely. That being said, I find it interesting how so many are calling for this, demanding that, opinionating on everything, and wanting immediate action.

The bottom line here people; USPA has a procedure in place to cover this whole situation... VOTE! That's right, you (each and every one of you) have the right to cast your vote. So, VOTE! It's that simple. Stop bitching, crying, complaining, making up facts, etc. and VOTE.

Yep.... it's just that simple.

B|
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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skyjumpenfool

***

Quote

For careless skydiving safety practices that kill and injure, there is no excuse.



Yup! B|


But back to the incident being discussed...


Just out of curiosity - Has anyone voicing their strong opinions regarding the character & alleged reckless behavior of this BOD member actually spoken with him about what happened?

Or for that matter anybody talk to Tyfani to get her take on what happened?

Maybe it's just me, but when I step back and look at the big picture as far as the discussions thus far - it seems a fair amount of speculation & hearsay is being considered absolute and verifiable fact.

I've seen a few 'testimonials' given by people that say they were there and witnessed the incident, yet even their recollections don't seem to match.

I see where there have been a couple investigations by the governing body and their findings didn't seem to deem expulsion necessary.

Again...maybe it's just me - but I'll reserve judgement until ALL the facts are on the table & that just isn't the case here...yet.



I've been following this thread pretty closely. That being said, I find it interesting how so many are calling for this, demanding that, opinionating on everything, and wanting immediate action.

The bottom line here people; USPA has a procedure in place to cover this whole situation... VOTE! That's right, you (each and every one of you) have the right to cast your vote. So, VOTE! It's that simple. Stop bitching, crying, complaining, making up facts, etc. and VOTE.

Yep.... it's just that simple.

B|

Cool ... where do I vote?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Hmmm, are you stating that sherry butcher offered sexual favors to Glenn Bangs (who has not been on the board in quite a few years) or others, to earn the office of president?

Or is it more likely that you are a misogynist that can hardly stand the fact that an attractive intelligent woman achieved an office to which you personally could never become elected because your brain is polluted with conspiracy theories and an anti-authority attitude. Please fill us all in on your incredible insight and knowledge as to what it takes to be USPA's president. It is apparent that you are one of the smartest people in the world to know all about everything to do with this entire incident.

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DSE

Spectators plural?
This is news, different from the other documents I've seen on this incident, different than what I've been told by more than one person, and different than what the injured person's partner has written/posted.

It seems like there is a lot of unknown information now floating out there that wasn't part of the USPA investigation?

I'm still waiting on Doug_Davis to share his inside knowledge or evidence that this isn't a one-off.



If I remember correctly the original story was that the girl that got hit pushed a spectator out of the way just before being struck.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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