BIGUN 1,231 #1751 September 21, 2022 (edited) I have an emotional connection to Fred Guttenberg and sometimes emotion is a strong motivator (for me it's anger). Fred's 14 year-old daughter Jaime was killed at Parkland. My daughter is now 14 and the thought of it being a roll of the dice disturbs me. Last night, she had a sign language class at one of those big pizza franchises that specializes in parties, so they could enhance their skills. They had armed physical security. Bill and I grew up not too far from each other in NY. Our parents, ourselves had less concerns about gun violence than we ever had for our kids today. It's not right. Here's a pic of Fred's daughter performing at the school. A few nights ago, Elton John honored her by paying tribute and using her name while singing "Tiny Dancer." Fred and I don't agree on a couple of issues, 1) you're never going to ban AR's (at least not across the country). and 2) we cannot rid ourselves of the second amendment. But what we can agree on, and what I'm asking you to consider is to write your representatives and ask for the NFA to become law for the sale of all guns and ammo. It was codified in 1934 for machine guns, short shotguns and ammo - later extended to silencers and additional machine guns. The prohibitive tax back then was $200.00 or the approximate equivalent of ~4K for each weapon today. Today $200.00 doesn't even get you a nice pair of tennis shoes. And you had and still have to wait four-six months for the deep background check and waiting period. How's that for a cooling off period? Anyway, I've said and done all I can with you guys on this subject in this forum. I will continue to bring some form of balance between No 2nd amendment and carrying machine guns on your hip. If you get a chance. Logon to your representatives website and ask them to consider codifying the NFA for all guns and ammo. If you do; check the box that says you'd like a response from that representative. I wish you guys well. Edited September 21, 2022 by BIGUN 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,613 #1752 September 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, BIGUN said: I have an emotional connection to Fred Guttenberg and sometimes emotion is a strong motivator (for me it's anger). Fred's 14 year-old daughter Jaime was killed at Parkland. My daughter is now 14 and the thought of it being a roll of the dice disturbs me. Last night, she had a sign language class at one of those big pizza franchises that specializes in parties, so they could enhance their skills. They had armed physical security. Bill and I grew up not too far from each other in NY. Our parents, ourselves had less concerns about gun violence than we ever had for our kids today. It's not right. Here's a pic of Fred's daughter performing at the school. A few nights ago, Elton John honored her by paying tribute and using her name while singing "Tiny Dancer." Fred and I don't agree on a couple of issues, 1) you're never going to ban AR's (at least not across the country). and 2) we cannot rid ourselves of the second amendment. But what we can agree on, and what I'm asking you to consider is to write your representatives and ask for the NFA to become law for the sale of all guns and ammo. It was codified in 1934 for machine guns, short shotguns and ammo - later extended to silencers and additional machine guns. The prohibitive tax back then was $200.00 or ~4K for each weapon. Today $200.00 doesn't even get you a nice pair of tennis shoes. And you had and still have to wait four-six months for the deep background check and waiting period. How's that for a cooling off period? Anyway, I've said and done all I can with you guys on this subject in this forum. I will continue to bring some form of balance between No 2nd amendment and carrying machine guns on your hip. If you get a chance. Logon to your representatives website and ask them to consider codifying the NFA for all guns and ammo. If you do; check the box that says you'd like a response from that representative. I wish you guys well. With respect, if you want to do something impactful go to your local voting registration office and check the box that say's Democrat. Then, on the way home, tell all of your conservative friends that if they really care about gun violence in America to do the same because nothing will change until their favorite demagogue sees the numbers swinging against them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #1753 September 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, billvon said: The next time this issue comes up, I will remember your position that 22 kids dying a day is "blah blah blah" "yawn." Incorrect. Bigun's repeated attempts to get me to discuss a private meeting with a senior member of the Senate is the yawn. A very brief use of the search function will reveal very clearly what I have written about firearms control and gun crime over a period of many years. I'm surprised you didn't try it before making your uninformed and insulting comment. Edited September 21, 2022 by kallend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #1754 September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, wmw999 said: Bigun has stepped up and invested a lot of work, and some of his relationships, into what he sees as an issue that he can contribute to personally, and that's important. It's not a blah blah blah, because we have multiple threads addressing this issue (including this one, started by you). If you don't like his approach (which does move the needle, and in a way that at least some conservatives find acceptable), how don't you like it? A national ban on firearms simply isn't going to happen, and you know that, too. OTOH, I guess SC is exactly the place where people come to just gripe about stuff they don't want to actually do anything about. Not sure that's wonderful. Wendy P. Bigun is repeatedly whining that I won't reveal the details of a PRIVATE meeting I had with a very senior member of the US Senate. It's tiresome - hence the "yawn". Read the thread since you seem to have lost track. He can keep whining. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,114 #1755 September 21, 2022 10 minutes ago, kallend said: Bigun is repeatedly whining that I won't reveal the details of a PRIVATE meeting I had with a very senior member of the US Senate. It's tiresome - hence the "yawn". Probably because you shamelessly name dropped and referred publically to the meeting that you now are insisting on privacy over. The only "details" he asked about was where the subject at hand came up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,379 #1756 September 21, 2022 5 hours ago, wmw999 said: Bigun has stepped up and invested a lot of work, and some of his relationships, into what he sees as an issue that he can contribute to personally, and that's important. Really though? Have his representatives actually introduced legislation based on his ideas? Because if not then according to Bigun, Bigun is fibbing and hasn't actually done anything at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,613 #1757 October 14, 2022 This is helpful: (Reuters) - A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that a federal ban on possessing a gun with its serial number removed is unconstitutional, the first such ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court dramatically expanded gun rights in June. The brilliant and unassailable logic behind the decision is that when the Second was drafted guns didn't have serial numbers so banning the removal of serial numbers which aren't inconstitutional now can't be unconstitutional. I'm thinking we're now free to tear those do not remove tags off our pillows. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 329 #1758 October 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, JoeWeber said: The brilliant and unassailable logic behind the decision is that when the Second was drafted guns didn't have serial numbers so banning the removal of serial numbers which aren't inconstitutional now can't be unconstitutional. I have no objection to muskets having no serial number. Or cannon. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,613 #1759 October 14, 2022 1 minute ago, headoverheels said: I have no objection to muskets having no serial number. Or cannon. Do Space Shuttles have serial numbers? Were those mentioned in the Constitution? No? What about "not free" persons? They were mentioned and I think they had serial numbers. Very confusing stuff. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #1760 October 14, 2022 10 hours ago, JoeWeber said: This is helpful: (Reuters) - A federal judge in West Virginia has ruled that a federal ban on possessing a gun with its serial number removed is unconstitutional, the first such ruling since the U.S. Supreme Court dramatically expanded gun rights in June. The brilliant and unassailable logic behind the decision is that when the Second was drafted guns didn't have serial numbers so banning the removal of serial numbers which aren't inconstitutional now can't be unconstitutional. I'm thinking we're now free to tear those do not remove tags off our pillows. Luckily there's the ability to pass laws to cover issues not in the Constitution. U may decide to risk yourself by removing a pillow tag but don't remove a mattress tag if you plan to sell it. Just sayin'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1761 October 14, 2022 IMO Joe, BIGUN and John have all made solid arguments and efforts to address gun control. Democracy is a little messy and blaming individuals who make personal efforts to pull on the rope. Should be given some slack. If everyone who wanted change made individual efforts, change will happen. Naturally the carnage will bring out some emotions from anybody who has a conscious. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,613 #1762 October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, billeisele said: Luckily there's the ability to pass laws to cover issues not in the Constitution. U may decide to risk yourself by removing a pillow tag but don't remove a mattress tag if you plan to sell it. Just sayin'. I would never sell a mattress simply because I would never want to meet someone who wants to buy a used mattress. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,231 #1763 October 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Phil1111 said: Naturally the carnage will bring out some emotions from anybody who has a conscious. Thank you and ^ why I need to step back from this subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #1764 October 21, 2022 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna53369 Not sure if it was a legally purchased firearm and 2A protected but damn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,319 #1765 October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, murps2000 said: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna53369 Not sure if it was a legally purchased firearm and 2A protected but damn. He'll probably claim he thought she had an abortion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #1766 October 21, 2022 1 hour ago, murps2000 said: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna53369 Not sure if it was a legally purchased firearm and 2A protected but damn. If all basketball players wore guns this sort of thing would . . . increase actually, but perhaps she could have shot him first. Maybe. One thing I know for sure is that it would increase gun sales and several politicians would get hefty contributions, and really isn't that what's important? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,304 #1767 October 28, 2022 Hi folks, The 2nd Amendment people are going to love this mod: Handguns converted to high-capacity machine guns fuel deadly violence in Chicago : NPR The firearm used was a Glock 19 handgun that had been converted to an illegal high-capacity machine gun with a device known as an auto sear, a square device about the size of a thumbnail. It's known on the street as a "switch" that turns the gun from a semi-automatic to an automatic weapon. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billeisele 130 #1768 October 28, 2022 23 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi folks, The 2nd Amendment people are going to love this mod: Handguns converted to high-capacity machine guns fuel deadly violence in Chicago : NPR The firearm used was a Glock 19 handgun that had been converted to an illegal high-capacity machine gun with a device known as an auto sear, a square device about the size of a thumbnail. It's known on the street as a "switch" that turns the gun from a semi-automatic to an automatic weapon. Jerry Baumchen Jerry - It would be interesting to know the facts on this. Your opinion is noted. IMO, many if not most 2nd Amendment supporters would not agree. Class 3 items are highly regulated and the folks that I know that are firearms enthusiasts like it that way. None of us have any problem obtaining the required license for a Class 3 item, if so desired. Unfortunately, it's fairly easy to convert a gun to auto fire. The required technical skills are minimal and the information is available. The fact that it can be done is all the more reason that responsible gun owners want to have the choice to be armed. Criminals will not turn in their weapons and they will continue to do criminal acts regardless of the law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 2,114 #1769 October 28, 2022 If Paul Pelosi had a pistol handy maybe he wouldn’t be in the hospital today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #1770 October 28, 2022 2 hours ago, billeisele said: Jerry - It would be interesting to know the facts on this. Your opinion is noted. IMO, many if not most 2nd Amendment supporters would not agree. Class 3 items are highly regulated and the folks that I know that are firearms enthusiasts like it that way. None of us have any problem obtaining the required license for a Class 3 item, if so desired. Unfortunately, it's fairly easy to convert a gun to auto fire. The required technical skills are minimal and the information is available. The fact that it can be done is all the more reason that responsible gun owners want to have the choice to be armed. Criminals will not turn in their weapons and they will continue to do criminal acts regardless of the law. By their nature, most semi-automatic guns can be converted to fire fully-automatic. At one end of the scale, an FN FAL C1 can be modified by simply inserting a paper match stick into the trigger group. Yes, I have done that modification to a Canadian Army rifle. At the range, I fired one magazine on full-auto bursts and concluded that it was a waste of ammunition. At 15 yards, the first bullet went into the target's right hip. The second bullet went in to its left shoulder and the third bullet missed completely. Most fully-automatic guns are useless in the hands of amateurs (read gang-bangers). Gang-bangers want full-auto because they instill fear in victims. Just count the number of bullets fired during the average drive-by shooting, then count the number of bullets that struck the intended victim. Back during the 1960s, Us Army surplus M1 carbines were popular with Montreal bank robbers because they could easily be converted to fire full-auto. My dad even had an M2 carbine (fully-automatic in military service) but he installed an after-market selector switch to limit it to semi-automatic. Mind you, tolerances can be tight in most trigger groups, so the difference between semi and full-auto can be a matter of a few thousandths of an inch. Designers of semi-auto weapons often have to add disconnectors to prevent run-aways at full-auto. I could refer you to a couple of textbooks ... but prefer to leave the bad guys guessing. One of those textbooks is sitting on the far side of my living room. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #1771 October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, gowlerk said: If Paul Pelosi had a pistol handy maybe he wouldn’t be in the hospital today. Possibly. Or he might actually be worse off. Initial reports by SFPD are that he and his attacker were struggling over the hammer that was eventually used to fracture his skull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1772 October 28, 2022 30 minutes ago, murps2000 said: Possibly. Or he might actually be worse off. Initial reports by SFPD are that he and his attacker were struggling over the hammer that was eventually used to fracture his skull. The attacker was looking specifically for Nancy. He asked for her by name. Just more political violence in the state where media and the tribes encourage such ideas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 1,099 #1773 October 28, 2022 1 hour ago, riggerrob said: ...Most fully-automatic guns are useless in the hands of amateurs (read gang-bangers). Gang-bangers want full-auto because they instill fear in victims. Just count the number of bullets fired during the average drive-by shooting, then count the number of bullets that struck the intended victim.... Agree. Full autos without allot of practice are almost useless in hitting the target. I've shot about 2000 rounds of .223(5.56) out of M-16s It took about 1500 rounds to hit a silhouette target three times out of 10 at about 30 yards. I had about the same results with a 9mm sub gun. They are fun to shoot but substantially a waste of ammo unless you're supplied with endless ammo and training from uncle Sam. Its surprising that the Pelosi attacker didn't have a gun. But it was California. Obviously all the pro-gun debaters will discount that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murps2000 86 #1774 October 28, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: The attacker was looking specifically for Nancy. He asked for her by name. Just more political violence in the state where media and the tribes encourage such ideas. Not sure of your point here but your first sentence is correct. Further initial reports suggest that the assailant had the hammer and Mr. Pelosi tried to take control of it. I think I’ll refrain from going into more hypotheticals about how it would have gone down if a different weapon was involved. The fact is neither of them had a firearm. To your third sentence I’d ask, is California the only state where political violence is encouraged? I will absolutely agree that media and tribalism play a part in it. Edited October 28, 2022 by murps2000 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,613 #1775 October 29, 2022 2 hours ago, murps2000 said: Not sure of your point here but your first sentence is correct. Further initial reports suggest that the assailant had the hammer and Mr. Pelosi tried to take control of it. I think I’ll refrain from going into more hypotheticals about how it would have gone down if a different weapon was involved. The fact is neither of them had a firearm. To your third sentence I’d ask, is California the only state where political violence is encouraged? I will absolutely agree that media and tribalism play a part in it. The bottom line here is that it was an assassination attempt on the sitting Speaker of the House of Representatives. According to the right wing noise machine it was nothing more than something to be expected when you live in a nice neighborhood in a liberal state. Of course, hopes and prayers for Mr.Pelosi are being offered as expected. Anything but to acknowledge Trump, R politicians and Fox et al. are responsible. And still odds are that too many voters will vote against Biden and his perceived economic wrongs rather than the preservation of American democracy in this election. American exceptionalism, indeed. 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites