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nigel99

Is religion a form of mental illness?

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(edited)
2 hours ago, jakee said:
5 hours ago, Coreece said:

And if you continue on with that quote,

The rest of it isn't particularly interesting. The bit I quoted to you is. Aren't you going to get onto your own case about the bigotry you just displayed?

Now that you've pressed me to think about it a bit more, I remember awhile back that you expressed how you just don't have any of those thoughts/feelings/emotions/desires that I've outlined earlier, so essentially from your perspective there's just nothing to repress.  I have no reason not to take you at your word - so given that, ya, I can see how my comment could be offensive and even bigoted if I strongly maintained that ALL atheists are just repressing inherent human emotions.

Overall I think it's great that some atheists are starting to explore that side of their humanity, so I should probably ease up a bit and be more encouraging, even accommodating if necessary.

 

1 hour ago, yobnoc said:
5 hours ago, Coreece said:

And if you continue on with that quote, I talk about the growing number of Atheist Churches and reports about how Atheists pray and have other involuntary thoughts of the supernatural while experiencing nature or distress.  I mean don't you think that that gives rise to the possibility that perhaps Atheists are just repressed "theists," especially vocal atheists that attack religion more aggressively - similar to the link between homophobia and repressed homosexuality?;)

By that logic, the Black Panthers were really just white supremacists at heart. 

No, it's just that we're tired of living in a supposedly secular constitutional republic and standing silent while the state blatantly places one religion on a pedestal. 

I can understand why many people feel that way, but atheism isn't required to defend the separation of Church and State and speak out against discrimination.

I'm referring more to comments from vocal atheists about how religious people are delusional, relatively dumber and mentally ill.  Some just "can't wait for religion to die," while others see it only as a crutch that "just fucks people's heads up."

. . .and to a certain extent I can understand those comments as well, if I'm being honest.  The problem is that someone gets offended, so they say something offensive back and then we get into this vicious cycle - and at some point we're just gonna have to stop it if we're ever going to have a chance at, dare I say "peaceful coexistence/cohabitation."

Edited by Coreece
spacing and excessive use of apostrophe's

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8 hours ago, Coreece said:

And if you continue on with that quote, I talk about the growing number of Atheist Churches and reports about how Atheists pray and have other involuntary thoughts of the supernatural while experiencing nature or distress. 

It’s called Climatism

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3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now that you've pressed me to think about it a bit more, I remember awhile back that you expressed how you just don't have any of those thoughts/feelings/emotions/desires that I've outlined earlier, so essentially from your perspective there's just nothing to repress.  I have no reason not to take you at your word - so given that, ya, I can see how my comment could be offensive and even bigoted if I strongly maintained that ALL atheists are just repressing inherent human emotions.

Overall I think it's great that some atheists are starting to explore that side of their humanity, so I should probably ease up a bit and be more encouraging, even accommodating if necessary.

 

I can understand why many people feel that way, but atheism isn't required to defend the separation of Church and State and speak out against discrimination.

I'm referring more to comments from vocal atheists about how religious people are delusional, relatively dumber and mentally ill.  Some just "can't wait for religion to die," while others see it only as a crutch that "just fucks people's heads up."

. . .and to a certain extent I can understand those comments as well, if I'm being honest.  The problem is that someone gets offended, so they say something offensive back and then we get into this vicious cycle - and at some point we're just gonna have to stop it if we're ever going to have a chance at, dare I say "peaceful coexistence/cohabitation."

I don't even know how to react to this.  It's so...non-aggressive.  Where's Coreece?!?! What have you done with him?!?!?!

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9 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now that you've pressed me to think about it a bit more, I remember awhile back that you expressed how you just don't have any of those thoughts/feelings/emotions/desires that I've outlined earlier, so essentially from your perspective there's just nothing to repress. 

Ok, so you think I simply lack humanity altogether. Gee thanks, that’s way less bigoted. 

 

“I have no reason not to take you at your word - so given that, ya, I can see how my comment could be offensive and even bigoted if I strongly maintained that ALL atheists are just repressing inherent human emotions.

Overall I think it's great that some atheists are starting to explore that side of their humanity, so I should probably ease up a bit and be more encouraging, even accommodating if necessary.”

 

So you’re just doubling down on the bigotry, then. Aren’t you embarrassed at the hypocrisy right now?

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3 hours ago, jakee said:
12 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now that you've pressed me to think about it a bit more, I remember awhile back that you expressed how you just don't have any of those thoughts/feelings/emotions/desires that I've outlined earlier, so essentially from your perspective there's just nothing to repress. 

Ok, so you think I simply lack humanity altogether.

Well you were the one that said you didn't have any of those spiritual thoughts or numinous feelings whether involuntary or not, so there was nothing to suppress.   And no, I don't think all of those things together equals the sum of our humanity.

In the article we were talking about several years ago, there was an atheist that said he was thinking of his mother shortly after she died and he felt this breeze come through the window and jingle the wind chimes or something like that -  he immediately starting thinking as if it was a sign from his mother that everything was ok.  He explained how his mind just went there, to some type of spiritual realm and it freaked him out.  He said something like "whoa, where did THAT come from? That's ridiculous, I'm an atheist." 

So if this guy (and other atheists) admit that they dismiss these kinds of feelings, some more regularly than others, why is it double down bigoted to think that yes, some atheists repress that area of humanity in their lives? 

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51 minutes ago, Coreece said:

So if this guy (and other atheists) admit that they dismiss these kinds of feelings, some more regularly than others, why is it double down bigoted to think that yes, some atheists repress that area of humanity in their lives? 

There is a difference between having a spooky or unexpected feeling and then shrugging it off later, and repressing your humanity.

For example, many people get really freaked out after watching a horror film. They may go so far as to not go into a dark room, or refuse to be alone in a house. Now later if they shrug that off as ridiculous, are they repressing their humanity too?

No. They are just acknowledging the mind doesn't always operate rationally. 

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28 minutes ago, SethInMI said:
1 hour ago, Coreece said:

So if this guy (and other atheists) admit that they dismiss these kinds of feelings, some more regularly than others, why is it double down bigoted to think that yes, some atheists repress that area of humanity in their lives? 

There is a difference between having a spooky or unexpected feeling and then shrugging it off later, and repressing your humanity.

For example, many people get really freaked out after watching a horror film. They may go so far as to not go into a dark room, or refuse to be alone in a house. Now later if they shrug that off as ridiculous, are they repressing their humanity too?

Ok, I can see that perspective, but as I've mentioned earlier, more and more atheists aren't  just shrugging it off.  They're starting to attend atheist churches and embracing those nominous feelings even if they don't understand them.  Some even admitted to praying regularly even if they don't know who they're praying to.

Also, in your example it was the horror film that prompted those "spooky" feelings that they later shrugged off.   What prompts these nominous feelings?  Is it perhaps reading or hearing about the beliefs of others or is it something inherently within us, or perhaps even beyond us and the natural world?

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15 hours ago, Coreece said:

Now that you've pressed me to think about it a bit more, I remember awhile back that you expressed how you just don't have any of those thoughts/feelings/emotions/desires that I've outlined earlier, so essentially from your perspective there's just nothing to repress.  I have no reason not to take you at your word - so given that, ya, I can see how my comment could be offensive and even bigoted if I strongly maintained that ALL atheists are just repressing inherent human emotions.

Overall I think it's great that some atheists are starting to explore that side of their humanity, so I should probably ease up a bit and be more encouraging, even accommodating if necessary.

 

I can understand why many people feel that way, but atheism isn't required to defend the separation of Church and State and speak out against discrimination.

I'm referring more to comments from vocal atheists about how religious people are delusional, relatively dumber and mentally ill.  Some just "can't wait for religion to die," while others see it only as a crutch that "just fucks people's heads up."

. . .and to a certain extent I can understand those comments as well, if I'm being honest.  The problem is that someone gets offended, so they say something offensive back and then we get into this vicious cycle - and at some point we're just gonna have to stop it if we're ever going to have a chance at, dare I say "peaceful coexistence/cohabitation."

You might as well stop here - 

You can be as nice as you want, and as long as you are a "believer" you will be the enemy to some here.

They will take one position that shows bigotry in their view, and when you back down, they will find another something to label you.

The fact is that humans have tribalism built in.  If you are in a tribe, and don't agree with another tribe - there will never be any real total acceptance.  There may be more tolerance, and the appearance of acceptance.  

Throwing the tribes own hypocrisy in the open just makes things worse.  Saying that "Atheists" are now making churches and praying go so far against the grain and is so offensive to their world view, it will provoke real anger. 

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Again, I recommend the works of David R Hawkins, MD, PhD. All this has to do with levels of consciousness and the shifting paradigms of linear and non-linear thinking.

  • Power vs Force
  • Truth vs Falsehood
  • Transcending Levels of Consciousness

These are the books I am currenting working from. There are several others.

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5 hours ago, Coreece said:

What prompts these nominous feelings?  Is it perhaps reading or hearing about the beliefs of others or is it something inherently within us, or perhaps even beyond us and the natural world?

I was a big Rush fan, when Neil Peart died I listened the hell out of their stuff from the late 70s and 80s. Neil was an atheist, but several of his songs touched on this idea, of imagining a world beyond our own. But as he ends this verse from Mystic Rhythms, it is just entertainment...

"We sometimes catch a window
A glimpse of what’s beyond
Was it just imagination
Stringing us along?
More things than are dreamed about
Unseen and unexplained
We suspend our disbelief
And we are entertained —"

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1 hour ago, SethInMI said:

I was a big Rush fan, when Neil Peart died I listened the hell out of their stuff from the late 70s and 80s. Neil was an atheist, but several of his songs touched on this idea, of imagining a world beyond our own. But as he ends this verse from Mystic Rhythms, it is just entertainment...

"We sometimes catch a window
A glimpse of what’s beyond
Was it just imagination
Stringing us along?
More things than are dreamed about
Unseen and unexplained
We suspend our disbelief
And we are entertained —"

. . . and comforted . . . a lot are comforted "knowing" there is another place to go to and they will not just end.

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11 hours ago, Coreece said:

Well you were the one that said you didn't have any of those spiritual thoughts or numinous feelings whether involuntary or not, so there was nothing to suppress.   And no, I don't think all of those things together equals the sum of our humanity.

So why deliberately choose such an offensive term to describe it? Why go out of your way to appear bigoted if that is not really you belief?

 

Quote

In the article we were talking about several years ago, there was an atheist that said he was thinking of his mother shortly after she died and he felt this breeze come through the window and jingle the wind chimes or something like that -  he immediately starting thinking as if it was a sign from his mother that everything was ok.  He explained how his mind just went there, to some type of spiritual realm and it freaked him out.  He said something like "whoa, where did THAT come from? That's ridiculous, I'm an atheist." 

This whole line of questioning comes from one article you read years ago? Seems a bit thin to be drawing conclusions about the whole population from that doesn't it? Along with defining awe at nature as a religious experience. Comes off a bit desperate, to be honest.

 

Quote

So if this guy (and other atheists) admit that they dismiss these kinds of feelings, some more regularly than others, why is it double down bigoted to think that yes, some atheists repress that area of humanity in their lives? 

Do you think of yourself as suppressing your own humanity every time a thought pops through your head that you then dismiss? Be honest, now.

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1 hour ago, jakee said:

So why deliberately choose such an offensive term to describe it?

I think It goes back to the comment I made to yobnoc about getting caught up in that vicious cycle of insults and contempt.  It seems like it's finally run it's course, so hopefully we can all move beyond that.

 

1 hour ago, jakee said:

This whole line of questioning comes from one article you read years ago? Seems a bit thin to be drawing conclusions about the whole population from that doesn't it?

Dude, you in a thread about whether or not religion is a form of mental illness, where the big coup de grâce is a link to a fake article, lol.

Looks like you're making a late run for that 2020 Irony Award, eh?:p

 

1 hour ago, jakee said:

Do you think of yourself as suppressing your own humanity every time a thought pops through your head that you then dismiss? Be honest, now.

A couple homosexual thoughts here and there never hurt anyone, but if they're persistently a source of nagging inner contention in your life and you're out there bashing the hell out of homosexuality, you may wanna get some help dealing with that. . .:x

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49 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I hope you guys realize that religion played a pivotal role in the development of civilization.  Without it we would still be a bunch of Neolithic warring tribes.  

Yes - it is always sanctuary to me to sit back and meditate on how wonderful the crusades were.

I get to go from there to Jihads.  I take a small break from that and go to the human sacrifices of the mayans.

Then I really get into my reflection and start thinking about all the wars that weren't an action hidden as politics yet were actually religion based.

I love religion and its doings.

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(edited)
20 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

The Doomsday clock was just advanced to 100 seconds before midnight.

Yes yes, doomsday (just like catastrophic climate change) is always right around the corner yet it never quite gets here.  The end times is something common in most religions.

Edited by brenthutch

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7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Yes yes, doomsday (just like catastrophic climate change) is always right around the corner yet it never quite gets here.  The end times is something common in most religions.

It's the most common thing the majority of species have in common.

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5 hours ago, Coreece said:

I think It goes back to the comment I made to yobnoc about getting caught up in that vicious cycle of insults and contempt.  It seems like it's finally run it's course, so hopefully we can all move beyond that.

How has it run its course if you're still here defending your contemptuous insults? Come on dude, your whole MO is to cry wolf about bigotry every time any aspect of religion is remotely criticised, just take it on the chin and admit to what is by your own standard a highly bigoted statement.

 

Quote

Dude, you in a thread about whether or not religion is a form of mental illness, where the big coup de grâce is a link to a fake article, lol.

Looks like you're making a late run for that 2020 Irony Award, eh?:p

I wasn't fooled by that article, you were. So now we've got two examples of you jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions. What's ironic about you staying true to form?

 

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