Is religion a form of mental illness?

[RonD1120 58]

4 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

So it's an amount of reality similar to Homeopathy. Interesting.

And both have empirical evidence of positive outcome.

[SkyDekker 1,129]

On 1/28/2020 at 6:27 PM, brenthutch said:

Show me an example of a Bronze Age, atheist society.

So because people in those days were religious, society could not have advanced without religion?

That is some pretty bizarre logic.

[brenthutch 384]

32 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

So because people in those days were religious, society could not have advanced without religion?

That is some pretty bizarre logic.

I never said they couldn't, they just didn't.  Not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact

[JoeWeber 2,316]

1 hour ago, RonD1120 said:

And both have empirical evidence of positive outcome.

Indeed. It's called the Placebo Effect. 

[jakee 1,257]

3 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

So, in his view, you are denying your nature, as opposed to your humanity, per se.

And yet that's the word he used. Several times. People here have a tendency to get mad when you assume they mean something they didn't say, so I'm going to stick with what he said.

 

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I'm not saying any of the three of us can't get contemptuous, at times, but I don't think he was being a bigot.

And I don't think many of the people he accuses of bigotry and mirroring the thoughts of genocidal mass murderers are either. He can't have it both ways.

[jakee 1,257]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

See that's your problem, you continue to go out of your way to be offended by your own imagined bigotry of others, the same thing you're trying to accuse me of.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm accusing you of, because it's exactly what you've been doing for months. Imagine my shock and surprise that you don't like it being turned back onto you.

 

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I never said that they were without humanity, and tho I admitted that I can see how you could've been offended by the phasing, I subsequently clarified what I was talking about.  But even before that clarification, you should've already known what I was talking about because I outlined it in the first post that you selectively quoted.

Did you clarify it though? From where I was sitting I only saw you dodge the issue with a gay joke.

 

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And even if you did suppress those feelings or other emotions, how is that equal to being without humanity?  

You tell me. You said it.

[jakee 1,257]

33 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I never said they couldn't, they just didn't.  Not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact

It's a matter of fact that you said they couldn't. Several times.

[jakee 1,257]

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

Except your own and that of others that share a similar world view to yours.

And what would that be?

 

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Ya, it figures you'd think that suggesting some atheists are suppressing numinous emotions based on their own admission is clearly bigoted, 

Yes, the suggestion that they are less human as a result is clearly bigoted. Is that still not obvious to you?

[nigel99 144]

4 hours ago, Coreece said:

You only believe that because that's what your dad told you to keep your siblings from calling each other names.  But you're not a child anymore and can clearly reads that it refers to trying to pass off deceit or trickery as being only a joke.

But even if we use your interpretation, it's exactly what you did here by making the nasty comments about religious people being mentally ill and then trying to trick us with your fake article and admitting that you were just joking.   Are you going to own that or just blame it on Aunt Nelly?

And btw, you never answered my question which was really the point I was trying to get at.  There are a growing number of Atheists starting to go to Atheists Churches, some even pray regularly and have nominous feeling brought about by nature or distress.  Do you think they are mentally ill as well, or is it just those that you don't like?

Community spirit helps people feel better, in fact I believe it is part of our make up to be part of a group. You see it in skydivers ‘belly fliers stick together, wingsuiters are weird etc..’ I also believe that it is vital to mental wellbeing to have a sense of belonging. So a group of athiests getting together in a ‘church’ is not a bad thing. By the same token many athiests actually go to religious churches for the same sense of community etc. 

As others have contributed towards this, I agree with the view that ‘hearing from god’ represents mental illness, and that believing in god is delusional. A favourite author of mine Scott Peck states that mental illness is the result of people being unable to face the pain of taking responsibility for their own actions. I have found most religious people use god as a scapegoat to avoid having to take responsibility. Before you get your nose bent out of shape Scott Peck was a Christian (past tense because he’s dead). He also has stated he has had patients healed by finding religion/god, and patients who have been healed by losing religion/god. If you are a person who likes to read it is the book ‘The Road Less Travelled’

 

 

[brenthutch 384]

1 hour ago, jakee said:

It's a matter of fact that you said they couldn't. Several times.

Give me one example 

[jakee 1,257]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Give me one example 

So you are a goldfish? 'Cos we did this already.

 

"Without it we would still be a bunch of Neolithic warring tribes."

"You would still be wearing a loincloth and hunting with a spear if it weren’t for religion."

"I merely pointed out, without it we would still be wearing loincloths and killing our neighbors with spears."

[SkyDekker 1,129]

2 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I never said they couldn't, they just didn't.  Not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact

You are very much like Trump. Just say what is most convenient at the time without any consistency, honesty or grasp of reality.

 

 

[brenthutch 384]

39 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

You are very much like Trump. Just say what is most convenient at the time without any consistency, honesty or grasp of reality.

 

 

Site me just one advanced civilization that was secular, just one.  Just a single example from any of the hundreds of societies that transitioned from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age.  Just one.....I'm waiting.....still nothing....? 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by brenthutch

[brenthutch 384]

40 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

You are very much like Trump. Just say what is most convenient at the time without any consistency, honesty or grasp of reality.

 

 

Speaking of no grasp of reality.....I'm still waiting for the US to plunge into recession by next month.  Would you like to retract/modify your prognostication? 

[mistercwood 287]

30 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Site me just one advanced civilization that was secular, just one.  Just a single example from any of the hundreds of societies that transitioned from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age.  Just one.....I'm waiting.....still nothing....? 

 

No-one needs to do that, because your argument is a logical fallacy (as was pointed out to you long ago). Either reframe/restate your position or take the L, otherwise you're just embarrassing yourself.

[SkyDekker 1,129]

45 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Site me just one advanced civilization that was secular, just one.  Just a single example from any of the hundreds of societies that transitioned from the Neolithic to the Bronze Age.  Just one.....I'm waiting.....still nothing....? 

 

That wasn't the statement. The statement was that without religion they couldn't have advanced. But, keep digging.

[SkyDekker 1,129]

36 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Speaking of no grasp of reality.....I'm still waiting for the US to plunge into recession by next month.  Would you like to retract/modify your prognostication? 

Pretty sure I said 6 months. I know time flies, but we aren't there yet.

[brenthutch 384]

43 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

That wasn't the statement. The statement was that without religion they couldn't have advanced. But, keep digging.

I never said that, I said that no civilization DID advanced without religion.  Look, I am not proselytizing, I am just pointing out the well established archaeological and  anthropological science, if that makes you butt hurt, (to borrow a phrase from Amazon) I'm sorry.  Again I am simply pointing out the FACT that religion is part of the human condition and always has been (and given the hyperreligiosity of Climatism I expect it to continue into the future)

To be fair, I did say that religion was pivotal in the development of civilization, largely because no civilization ever did.  

Edited January 31, 2020 by brenthutch

[nigel99 144]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I never said that, I said that no civilization DID advanced without religion.  Look, I am not proselytizing, I am just pointing out the well established archaeological and  anthropological science, if that makes you butt hurt, (to borrow a phrase from Amazon) I'm sorry.  Again I am simply pointing out the FACT that religion is part of the human condition and always has been (and given the hyperreligiosity of Climatism I expect it to continue into the future)

In part I agree with you. There was an article a while ago where they found that Apple users had the same part of their brain fired up as the ‘religion’ region. It’s why the Apple/Android debates get so heated. 
 

I am not sure if your argument is that religion is positive or simply just a part of the fact. Because I’m pretty sure most civilisations have committed genocide/ethnic cleansing along the way as well, and I don’t know many that would agree with that (although the average Trump supporter might!)

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

Speaking of no grasp of reality.....I'm still waiting for the US to plunge into recession by next month.  Would you like to retract/modify your prognostication? 

Especially with the loss of over a billion to those that short sold the Tesla stock.

 

[brenthutch 384]

1 minute ago, nigel99 said:

In part I agree with you. There was an article a while ago where they found that Apple users had the same part of their brain fired up as the ‘religion’ region. It’s why the Apple/Android debates get so heated. 
 

I am not sure if your argument is that religion is positive or simply just a part of the fact. Because I’m pretty sure most civilisations have committed genocide/ethnic cleansing along the way as well, and I don’t know many that would agree with that (although the average Trump supporter might!)

Thank You!  I never said that religion was good, I never said that religion prevented evil, I never said that one religion was better than another, (or no religion for that matter)  I just said that it was part of the human condition.  It is a matter of record that societies that worshiped an omnipotent and angry god developed faster than one that endowed trees and frogs with mystic properties.     

[turtlespeed 212]

20 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I never said that, I said that no civilization DID advanced without religion.  Look, I am not proselytizing, I am just pointing out the well established archaeological and  anthropological science, if that makes you butt hurt, (to borrow a phrase from Amazon) I'm sorry.  Again I am simply pointing out the FACT that religion is part of the human condition and always has been (and given the hyperreligiosity of Climatism I expect it to continue into the future)

To be fair, I did say that religion was pivotal in the development of civilization, largely because no civilization ever did.  

Simply and LITERALLY false.  You said that religion was pivotal.

[billvon 2,406]

21 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I never said that, I said that no civilization DID advanced without religion. 

"Without it we would still be a bunch of Neolithic warring tribes."

"You would still be wearing a loincloth and hunting with a spear if it weren’t for religion."

[JoeWeber 2,316]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Thank You!  I never said that religion was good, I never said that religion prevented evil, I never said that one religion was better than another, (or no religion for that matter)  I just said that it was part of the human condition.  It is a matter of record that societies that worshiped an omnipotent and angry god developed faster than one that endowed trees and frogs with mystic properties.     

And you also retired a multi-millionaire at 50 and thought: I know, I'll manage a two Cessna DZ and hump Tandems now.

[brenthutch 384]

34 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Simply and LITERALLY false.  You said that religion was pivotal.

Given that religion is omnipresent across all cultures, and given that all Neolithic societies has roughly the same technology and resources, one of the only differentiating   factors is religion.  I encourage you to look into it yourself.  

Replace Romans with religion

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=what+have+the+romans+ever+done+for+us+monty+python

Edited January 31, 2020 by brenthutch