turtlespeed 212 #1 Posted October 25, 2019 Scroll to about a 1:00 on the time line if you don't understand humor. What he says is pretty damn close to the truth. So - listen and watch - then think about how you can change the situation in 2020. If you cant come up with someone that can be better than him AND WIN, perhaps its time to relax the liberal views you have a bit and come join the rest of us in the more centrist arena. Otherwise, hush. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #2 October 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: perhaps its time to relax the liberal views you have a bit and come join the rest of us in the more centrist arena. Clinton’s loss cannot be attributed to the fact that she was a woman, but because she ran a poor campaign. Clinton’s loss had little to do with her being a woman. She was the wrong woman. It was Clinton who called millions of people in this country “deplorables.” It was Clinton who stated that coal miners would be put out of work. The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #3 October 25, 2019 Just now, BIGUN said: Clinton’s loss cannot be attributed to the fact that she was a woman, but because she ran a poor campaign. Clinton’s loss had little to do with her being a woman. She was the wrong woman. It was Clinton who called millions of people in this country “deplorables.” It was Clinton who stated that coal miners would be put out of work. The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president. That doesn't fit the rhetoric though. Reality doesn't mean anything in politics. Little to no thought was really given to the fact that she was a woman. NO ONE that I communicate with on any level has ever voiced that they didn't vote for her because she was a woman. Clinton lost because the country viewed her as more likely to be corrupt than Trump, or at least more corrupt already. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #4 October 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Clinton’s loss cannot be attributed to the fact that she was a woman, but because she ran a poor campaign. Clinton’s loss had little to do with her being a woman. She was the wrong woman. It was Clinton who called millions of people in this country “deplorables.” It was Clinton who stated that coal miners would be put out of work. The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president. And that would be true - if the same lens had been applied to trump and he hadn't been given a pass for all his remarks. As it stands, that's utter nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #5 October 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stumpy said: And that would be true - if the same lens had been applied to trump and he hadn't been given a pass for all his remarks. As it stands, that's utter nonsense. Obviously, it's NOT nonsense, it is reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #6 October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, BIGUN said: It was Clinton who stated that coal miners would be put out of work. Turns out she was right. Employment has held steady among coal miners last few years. This has been driven by increases in coal exports. Those increases are widely expected to diminish in the next two years, with employment in that industry falling. Add on top of that the recent bankruptcies in that industry and well...Clinton was right. Your narrative also doesn't seem to include the years long Benghazi investigations which were held solely to undermine her future presidential run as admitted by at least 1 Republican lawmaker. An investigation that started behind closed doors, shielded from the public. A process Republicans are now very upset over. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #7 October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, turtlespeed said: Obviously, it's NOT nonsense, it is reality. Uhmm, no. Reality is that she lost. That doesn't mean you can just ascribe any reason to it and call it reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #8 October 25, 2019 Johnathan Pie said similar about 3 years ago. The more I watch this video the more apt it becomes as we move toward another election and the more I think it's going to happen again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs&t=310s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 145 #9 October 25, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stumpy said: And that would be true - if the same lens had been applied to trump and he hadn't been given a pass for all his remarks. As it stands, that's utter nonsense. 1. Why is turtle bringing this up now? Didn't this get beat to death back in the election aftermath, back when the clip was created? 2. I voted for Clinton, and I do think that she lost not because she was a woman, but because of the baggage she carried from 25 years in politics, and just a personality/character problem from both sides of the divide. The famous Obama quote from 2008 campaign comes to mind: "You're likable enough, Hillary." Face it, elections are popularity contests. The campaign trail is full of bullshit and some people just can carry off spouting the nonsense and promises that all pols put out and some people can't. But I don't really give a shit about Hillary anymore. If she runs again and gets some traction then I will start to care. Edited October 25, 2019 by SethInMI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #10 October 25, 2019 Like it or not, coal is not coming back. Former coal miners would be well advised to train for a different career, rather than put their trust in a bloviating orange mango con artist who will say anything to get you to buy the kool-aid. Clinton lost because Republicans have been making baseless accusations against her ever since she dared to step out of line and declare that she wasn't going to stay in the kitchen and bake cookies. It didn't help her cause that she decided to stay with Bill. I live in the buckle of the bible belt, where 90% of the people I know are hard core Baptists, and I swear half of them are on their third or fourth marriage and have no clue about forgiveness or commitment. They may not say it out loud, but given the view of the Baptist church on the role of women, I have no doubt that they are offended by an uppity educated woman daring to aspire to any sort of leadership position. Just look at the elected Republican officials from the South: white white white and male male male. Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #11 October 25, 2019 25 minutes ago, SethInMI said: Hi Seth, Re: '1. Why is turtle bringing this up now?' I am very sure that you know the answer to that. Re: '2. I voted for Clinton' So did I. With all of her faults, she was & is a much better person and politician than Trump ever will be. 3. 'I don't really give a shit about Hillary anymore.' Nor do I. It is time to move on. IMO it is just that that the Trumpettes cannot seem to. You know, those emails, etc, etc. This thread ( and many others ) is about how the American did not want her for President. Well, she did win the actual vote count; it is just that little thingy about the Electoral College that did her in. At the end of the day, she was more popular than Trump. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 145 #12 October 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: I am very sure that you know the answer to that. Ha. Actually it was an honest question. I don't follow Hillary news at all, so if she did or said something in the last few days that got turtle's undies wadded up, I wonder what it was. I know her daughter published a book recently, and there is this thing about Tulsi and Hillary and the Russians that I have completely ignored and maybe that is it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #13 October 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, JerryBaumchen said: At the end of the day, she was more popular than Trump In some parts of the country and with a certain demographic. I think she lost because she came off as arrogant and was seen as part of the political elites and people wanted a change form that. Her reported disdain for the members of the military and secret service made some believe she thought herself better than the average Joe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #14 October 25, 2019 1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Seth, Re: '1. Why is turtle bringing this up now?' I am very sure that you know the answer to that. The hate and contempt you have, and can't let go of, is inspiring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SethInMI 145 #15 October 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, turtlespeed said: 1 hour ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Seth, Re: '1. Why is turtle bringing this up now?' I am very sure that you know the answer to that. The hate and contempt you have, and can't let go of, is inspiring. This is what happens when you wander into Speakers Corner after several months away and click on a thread because you recognize "Bill Burr" in the title. I didn't see the "She's back" thread that apparently has gone on and on about the Tulsi thing, so that (obviously to me now) contained the source of turtle's inspiration for the post and Jerry's comment to me. Wheee! well I'm back out... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #16 October 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Stumpy said: As it stands, that's utter nonsense. You can disagree with the comments about her performance and campaign (I was trying to keep a short list and forgot the etc., etc.). But, I still stand by my statement of: The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #17 October 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, BIGUN said: You can disagree with the comments about her performance and campaign (I was trying to keep a short list and forgot the etc., etc.). But, I still stand by my statement of: The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president. Which would imply you believe Trump was/is someone with sound policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #18 October 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Rick said: In some parts of the country and with a certain demographic. Hi Rick, No 'some parts of the country and with a certain demographic' about. She got more actual votes than Trump. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #19 October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SkyDekker said: Which would imply you believe Trump was/is someone with sound policy. No, it doesn't... I don't usually imply anything. I'm usually pretty explicit with this crowd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #20 October 25, 2019 1 minute ago, BIGUN said: No, it doesn't... I don't usually imply anything. I'm usually pretty explicit with this crowd. Then the only other option is that you meant a woman should have sound policy to be elected, but a man does not need that. You seemed to imply that you see male and female candidates as equals. But if you don't think trump had sound policy, but you list that as a requirement for a female candidate.....well then you are treating them differently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #21 October 25, 2019 57 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: Then the only other option is that you meant a woman should have sound policy to be elected, but a man does not need that. Nice try at twisting shit around to create yet another fantastic circular argument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #22 October 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, BIGUN said: Nice try at twisting shit around to create yet another fantastic circular argument. Then be clear. You said: "The country will be ready for a woman president when she presents herself as someone with sound policy and a vision for the future of our country, not because it’s time to elect a woman as president ." Do you think the standard for male candidates is the same? How do you reconcile that with your implication that Trump did not have sound policy? Just trying to make sense of your statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #23 October 25, 2019 5 hours ago, SkyDekker said: Uhmm, no. Reality is that she lost. That doesn't mean you can just ascribe any reason to it and call it reality. Reality is also that more Americans voted for her than for Trump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #24 October 25, 2019 6 hours ago, GeorgiaDon said: Like it or not, coal is not coming back. Former coal miners would be well advised to train for a different career, rather than put their trust in a bloviating orange mango con artist who will say anything to get you to buy the kool-aid. Clinton lost because Republicans have been making baseless accusations against her ever since she dared to step out of line and declare that she wasn't going to stay in the kitchen and bake cookies. It didn't help her cause that she decided to stay with Bill. I live in the buckle of the bible belt, where 90% of the people I know are hard core Baptists, and I swear half of them are on their third or fourth marriage and have no clue about forgiveness or commitment. They may not say it out loud, but given the view of the Baptist church on the role of women, I have no doubt that they are offended by an uppity educated woman daring to aspire to any sort of leadership position. Just look at the elected Republican officials from the South: white white white and male male male. Don I worked for a guy who swore that if Hitler would have been an American he would have been a southern baptist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #25 October 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, kallend said: Reality is also that more Americans voted for her than for Trump. Hi John, RATZ. Those damn facts again. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites