kallend 1,623 #26 June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Imagine that - Words mean shit and the liberals want to use a word differently. YUGE surprise!! Like "fetus = person"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #27 June 20, 2019 6 hours ago, BIGUN said: Good to know that so many think they can speak AND interpret for me. Let me educate you a little bit; cause those from Canada, Britain and some here in the US seem to think they know what they're talking about - when they don't. . What Mr. Stewart was arguing for wasn't pay, wasn't healthcare. The James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act. Do I need to say more? Quote It was about the disability fund for those first responders. If you are injured or get a disease in the service of your country there is a fund set up to ensure you remain whole. If you get too sick or your injuries begin to affect the way you can perform which jeopardizes your ability to work; it can have an effect on you and your family's livelihood. So what does the diability fund do if it doesn't give them money or provide for heathcare? Where does the cash go? Quote Firefighters, police officers, and some other vocations cannot purchase long-term disability like those in other jobs because their jobs are too dangerous and there is an exclusion clause. Try being a professional skydiver and try to get long-term disability insurance. Heck, try to get life insurance. Not going to happen. That's capitalism. When the government steps in to protect those people because the market failed them? That's socialism. Quote And, social security - even after paying 100% of the committed amount for it for years and receiving $2,000/mo is not going to pay the rent or groceries in New York City. So how is this fund going to help with that, if it's not paying them? Quote Again, it's not about Pay or Healthcare; it's about extending a disability fund specific for those heroes. It's not a socialist program. I'm trying to wrap my head around exactly what you're saying, is it really your contention that only direct pay and healthcare provision are socialist? Is that what you've got to tell yourself so you can avoid realising you support a socialist program? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #28 June 20, 2019 (edited) . Edited June 20, 2019 by jakee . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #29 June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, kallend said: 7 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Imagine that - Words mean shit and the liberals want to use a word differently. YUGE surprise!! Like "fetus = person"? Sez the guy who compared a fetus to cake. . . .but then again, atheists do eat babies so I guess that makes sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #30 June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, BIGUN said: Good to know that so many think they can speak AND interpret for me. Let me educate you a little bit; cause those from Canada, Britain and some here in the US seem to think they know what they're talking about - when they don't... ...Remember that the U.S. got the idea for a social-security system from 19th century Germany. That very capitalist monarchy launched an old-age social insurance program in 1889 at the behest of Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, partly to stave off radical socialist ideas being floated at the time. The original social security was actually an anti-socialist maneuver by a conservative government. ... It's not a socialist program. But, I'm sure some very educated people and foreigners will be here shortly to attempt to correct me or throw out some one-liners. Not speaking or interpreting for you at all. Simply pointing out the inconsistency in your position. Bismark's Germany adopted a moderate socialist program in order to keep the radicals at bay. For the US government to offer disability insurance to any group at rates that are lower than the commercially available rates is socialism. The government is stepping in and providing a subsidized service that isn't available in the open market. How is that not socialism? I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that you are in favor of some kinds of socialism, while saying you can't support Jon Stewart because he's a 'socialist.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #31 June 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: For the US government to offer disability insurance to any group at rates that are lower than the commercially available rates is socialism. The government is stepping in and providing a subsidized service that isn't available in the open market. How is that not socialism? Just an observation, but the difference that I'm hearing is about socialist programs that are earned vs those that are not. Is that essentially what the argument is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #32 June 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, Coreece said: Just an observation, but the difference that I'm hearing is about socialist programs that are earned vs those that are not. Is that essentially what the argument is? There is no means test for this program. It's about helping those injured in the line of duty. 'One of the authors of the Social Security Act, Senator Walter F. George (Democrat of Georgia), asserted, "Social security is not a handout; it is not charity; it is not relief.... As an earned right, the individual is eligible to receive his benefit in dignity and self-respect."' In my opinion, if you pay for groceries; you expect to have dinner that night, I said I wouldn't vote for Mr. Stewart because he's a self-avowed Socialist. I've been to Socialist countries (not on vacation).and, my fear is when those who tout themselves as "socialist" really don't know what it is - and then they want to impart that self-proclaimed wisdom on the rest of America - in office. I didn't say his going to congress was a bad idea or that he's a bad person. I think he'd be refreshing to have in the room as an advisor just to get a different perspective from his views. He was effective and the next day. The Next Day. Congress approved the act (neither the left or right did that - he did. One man). I don't see it as any different than my agreeing with the other posters on here regarding specific points of regard - climate change, responsible gun ownership, etc. That doesn't make them socialists - it just means they give a shit about this country. This argument is getting silly.. I don't mind people who have a different political philosophy, or who believe in a different religion or who don't even believe - period. People have a right to differing viewpoints and our constitution guarantees it.. What I don't want to see here in the U.S. is a migration of capitalism towards socialism. I get that it's a cool new buzzword; but the reality is - socialism really really sucks. You've got to ask yourself why countries like China; Vietnam; Cuba are moving more towards capitalism every day. If your interested; feel free to read the following hyperlink. Of course; I'm sure someone will be along shortly to say that I'm just "copying/pasting more bullshit from the internet." https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/081514/socialist-economies-how-china-cuba-and-north-korea-work.asp 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #33 June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Coreece said: Sez the guy who compared a fetus to cake. . . .but then again, atheists do eat babies so I guess that makes sense. Apparently you never learned the difference between a metaphor and a simile. (And you confuse me with someone else). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #34 June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, kallend said: Like "fetus = person"? How is it that you bitch at me for going off point, yet here you are doing the same thing. Does hypocrisy not apply to you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #35 June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, BIGUN said: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/081514/socialist-economies-how-china-cuba-and-north-korea-work.asp It's hard for me to see us ever going to those extremes, but you never know. What I do know is that many of our social programs are needed and I don't really have a problem balancing them with our capitalistic society. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #36 June 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, Coreece said: What I do know is that many of our social programs are needed and I don't really have a problem balancing them with our capitalistic society. Well said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #37 June 20, 2019 13 hours ago, BIGUN said: Let me educate you a little bit; cause those from Canada, Britain and some here in the US seem to think they know what they're talking about - when they don't. lol 13 hours ago, BIGUN said: The original social security was actually an anti-socialist maneuver by a conservative government. lol Yes it was the implementation of a socialist program to try and prevent more socialist programs from gaining traction. It is called a compromise. Just because a conservative government implements something doesn't mean it is by definition conservative doctrine. 13 hours ago, BIGUN said: Again, it's not about Pay or Healthcare; it's about extending a disability fund specific for those heroes. It's not a socialist program. Then what kind of program is it? It certainly isn't free market capitalism. It certainly isn't libertarianism. I wonder what it is called when the government takes care of a group who needs assistance? 13 hours ago, BIGUN said: Try being a professional skydiver and try to get long-term disability insurance. Heck, try to get life insurance. Not going to happen. Try being homeless and get a job. Try being homeless and buy food or life insurance. Try being part of the working poor and buy long-term disability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Coreece said: What I do know is that many of our social programs are needed and I don't really have a problem balancing them with our capitalistic society. Agreed. We are strong as a nation because we don't confine ourselves to any -ism. Capitalism is great for apportioning resources; it sucks when it comes to taking care of vulnerable people. So we have laws that limit capitalism's harm and other laws that provide care for the elderly, veterans, children, the sick etc. Most of these programs are socialist, because socialism works very well in those cases. And we even have communism for things like our national parks. Everyone owns them. Again, it works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CygnusX-1 42 #39 June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, BIGUN said: What I don't want to see here in the U.S. is a migration of capitalism towards socialism. I get that it's a cool new buzzword; but the reality is - socialism really really sucks. You've got to ask yourself why countries like China; Vietnam; Cuba are moving more towards capitalism every day. Two things I wanted to clarify. 1) If you go back and reread my original post, I never said that I interpreted what your position was. I did not mention anything about your position on this matter. I said (for that post) that 'I' believe that if first responders cannot afford healthcare/food/etc. due to injury or whatever, fuck them. The government should not step in and help. I did not say you believed that, I did (for that post). 2) It is probably the same reason when you have to ask yourself why countries like the USA are moving towards socialism every day. My guess is that most intelligent people (Bigun yourself included) understand that neither system to the extreme is the correct solution. The best situation is to have a balance between capitalism and socialism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #40 June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Coreece said: How is it that you bitch at me for going off point, yet here you are doing the same thing. Does hypocrisy not apply to you? It was precisely ON point as a response to Turtlespeed's bitching about redefining words. You need to pay more attention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #41 June 20, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, kallend said: 5 hours ago, Coreece said: How is it that you bitch at me for going off point, yet here you are doing the same thing. Does hypocrisy not apply to you? It was precisely ON point as a response to Turtlespeed's bitching about redefining words. You need to pay more attention. It's really no different than what I was doing in the other thread. Besides, there are different descriptors for a type of person, like baby, child, adult, and petty old man. Edited June 20, 2019 by Coreece Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yobnoc 142 #42 June 20, 2019 17 hours ago, BIGUN said: Heck, try to get life insurance. Not going to happen. I just purchased life insurance specifically for skydiving. Took 30 minutes. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #43 June 20, 2019 After hearing Stewart's testimony, Mitch McConnell said "I don’t know why he is all bent out of shape." Which tells me he didn't really listen to any of his testimony. Great leadership in the Senate we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #44 June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, BIGUN said: I said I wouldn't vote for Mr. Stewart because he's a self-avowed Socialist. I've been to Socialist countries (not on vacation).and, my fear is when those who tout themselves as "socialist" really don't know what it is - and then they want to impart that self-proclaimed wisdom on the rest of America - in office. Why is the word so scary to you? He's describing himself as a socialist, not a Marxist. He doesn't want the US to be like those countries. Quote What I don't want to see here in the U.S. is a migration of capitalism towards socialism. I get that it's a cool new buzzword; but the reality is - socialism really really sucks. And yet you support this socialist policy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #45 June 20, 2019 I don't support socialism, hence any program I support is not socialism. I guess some people just refuse to see logical fallacies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 June 21, 2019 10 hours ago, SkyDekker said: Try being homeless and get a job. Try being homeless and buy food or life insurance. Try being part of the working poor and buy long-term disability. Been all of those things - Did all of those things . . . . Next Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #47 June 21, 2019 7 hours ago, turtlespeed said: Been all of those things - Did all of those things . . . . Next And I put myself through private university working, and know someone who put themself through public school in the 2000’s working. We were lucky. We worked hard too, but we were lucky. I also know people who were homeless and turned down for jobs because of no address. Turtle, you’re smarter than the average bear, well-spoken, and good looking. Things are easier when you’re all of those things. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #48 June 21, 2019 57 minutes ago, wmw999 said: Turtle, you’re smarter than the average bear, well-spoken, and good looking. Things are easier when you’re all of those things. I don't care what you say, I ain't hiring no damn slowsky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #49 June 21, 2019 14 hours ago, SkyDekker said: I don't support socialism, hence any program I support is not socialism. I guess some people just refuse to see logical fallacies. Socialism and social programs have practically nothing to do with one another and people who scream about the former whenever they see the latter have nothing to contribute. Just cause you want it to be - doesn't mean it is. Feel free to go do some reading and perhaps some learning and then come back and apologize. I'll wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #50 June 21, 2019 19 hours ago, yobnoc said: I just purchased life insurance specifically for skydiving. Took 30 minutes. I've never had any issues with life, health, AD&D, or LTD insurance when declaring skydiving as a life activity. I'll never understand the GoFundMe Skydiver Insurance Program. It's irresponsible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
