Death toll at the border

[billvon 2,407]

7 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

By your example the Rigs would hav e had to come from XYZ parachuting in Alabama, and the student in the article would have been in SD Somewhere else.  The story would have to glaze over the facts.  Someone would have to speculate (I wonder who that someone was) about the reasons for the Somewhere else student dying - tying them together with a very flimsy thread.

Why can't you admit that you posted sensationalized media BS, and get on with your day?

Because I posted two stories.  The first one talked about the death of a child in US custody - number four.  The second talked about the conditions under which they were keeping kids - outdoors on the ground.  I know you really, really want those stories to go away, but they are not going to until we make some significant changes in how we treat refugees.  And I am going to keep posting them until that does change.  Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.  But I am glad it does, because otherwise the status quo remains.  (And if the deaths of those kids _didn't_ make someone uncomfortable, they'd be pretty inhuman.)

[normiss 622]

Subtitles on various images used in some articles on this child's death:

" Families are seen inside a temporary migrant holding area set up by CBP under the Paso del Norte Port of Entry between Juarez, Mexico, and El Paso"

" Migrants cross the border to surrender to US immigration agents in El Paso, Texas "

" A child drinks from a bottle while being carried by a woman along with a group of Central American migrants walking next to the U.S.-Mexico in El Paso on Wednesday"

" Migrant families walk from the Rio Grande, which separates the United States and Mexico in Texas, before being apprehended by Border Patrol officials"

 

[wmw999 2,131]

I’m sorry, wolfriverjoe, your last post was too sensible and even-handed. 

Wendy P. 

[turtlespeed 212]

7 hours ago, normiss said:

It's odd that you now consider stock photos to simply be media sensationalized BS.

It's been used as far back as printed media goes.

Maybe pay closer attention to the details in articles posted??

 

You really can't be . . . I know it . . .

Do you not agree that they were trying to insinuate a tie in between a kid that was sick and died to some in McAllen that were supposedly sleeping on the ground?

 

[turtlespeed 212]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You really can't be . . . I know it . . .

Do you not agree that they were trying to insinuate a tie in between a kid that was sick and died to some in McAllen that were supposedly sleeping on the ground?

 

Oh - my bad - it was Bill making that connection - not the media.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

21 hours ago, wmw999 said:

I’m sorry, wolfriverjoe, your last post was too sensible and even-handed. 

Wendy P. 

Well, you can always put me on your 'ignore' list. 
That is one handy little doo-dad. 
Makes all the hassle of learning the new site functions worth it.

Somebody has to be reasonable and sensible. 

Bill has been that 'voice' in the past, but lately he's just been bickering with the resident trolls. He's fallen into the 'I know you are but what am I?" trap.
Many of the other 'reasonable' folks have left. I don't blame them. It's gotten pretty damned stupid in here of late.

[Coreece 190]

don't let it go to your head or nothing. . .

 

[normiss 622]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

don't let it go to your head or nothing. . .

 

Point proven with a quickness.

[Coreece 190]

50 minutes ago, normiss said:

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

don't let it go to your head or nothing. . .

 

Point proven with a quickness.

Nah, there's been a lot more quality posts on a variety of topics as of late, some even from newer posters.  I know you guys miss the little tump bashing circle jerk thing you had going on here, but it's good to step away from time to time.

[turtlespeed 212]

14 hours ago, Coreece said:

Nah, there's been a lot more quality posts on a variety of topics as of late, some even from newer posters.  I know you guys miss the little Trump bashing circle jerk thing you had going on here, but it's good to step away from time to time.

Noooooo - That never would never happen . . . 

 

[turtlespeed 212]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:42 PM, billvon said:

More and more children are dying in US custody.  The latest:

==============================================

Toddler apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border dies after weeks in hospital

By Maria Sacchetti

May 15 at 9:22 PM

A 2½-year-old Guatemalan boy apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border died Tuesday night in El Paso after several weeks in the hospital, according to the Guatemalan Consulate and another person with direct knowledge of the case.

The boy, who was not identified, arrived at the border with his mother days after now-acting homeland security secretary Kevin McAleenanheld a news conference near a crowded holding facility in El Paso on March 27 to warn that a surge of Central Americans was pushing the system to the “breaking point.”

The boy is the fourth migrant child to die since December after being apprehended at the southern border and taken to the hospital. All have been from Guatemala, a Central American nation experiencing severe drought and poverty, and where smugglers have been offering discounted trips to families traveling to the United States.

=================================================

Why is this happening?  Perhaps this could be part of the reason:

=================================================

Photos show children sleeping on ground at Texas Border Patrol station

BY ZACK BUDRYK - 05/14/19

The Hill

Photos obtained by CNN of migrants at a Border Patrol station in McAllen, Texas, show many, including children, sleeping on the ground on rocks or with Mylar blankets.

In one photo, a child sleeps outside on dirt next to a baby bottle full of milk. Others show migrants walking around the facility, which has four open sided tents set up to accommodate an influx of migrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border, according to the news outlet.

"Nobody, no matter who you are, where you are from should spend an hour like this. This is the United States of America. Not in our country," the source of the photos told the network.

====================================================

OK - so - 

The headline of the post is "More and more children are dying in US custody.  The latest:"

Was that a true statement or not?

Was the child that died in custody?

[normiss 622]

51 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

OK - so - 

The headline of the post is "More and more children are dying in US custody.  The latest:"

Was that a true statement or not?

Was the child that died in custody?

Which child?

It's a growing number, maybe we should start humanizing them by using their given names.

[Rick 67]

57 minutes ago, normiss said:

Which child?

It's a growing number, maybe we should start humanizing them by using their given names.

the one in the second sentence of the original post.

Look my whole point was the misleading way the articles were connected. I made no comment on immigration policy or anything else. Agree or disagree it really doesn't matter. 

(now is where someone posts a a thinly veiled personal attack)

[normiss 622]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

the one in the second sentence of the original post.

Look my whole point was the misleading way the articles were connected. I made no comment on immigration policy or anything else. Agree or disagree it really doesn't matter. 

(now is where someone posts a a thinly veiled personal attack)

I agree - it was made obvious when I started attempting to look up some of the images used and trying to make sense of when/where/what. The stories I found are so disjointed it's hard to get to actual details.

We need to improve our process at the border. Or simply return to what we had only last year for that matter.

A created crisis to fuel discord it seems.

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

1 hour ago, normiss said:

A created crisis to fuel discord it seems.

Hi Mark,

IMO the mantra of the Trump Admin.

Jerry Baumchen

[billvon 2,407]

Number five.  From the NYT:

================

WASHINGTON — A 16-year-old Guatemalan boy who officials said was sick with influenza was found dead at a Border Patrol station in South Texas on Monday morning, after a week of waiting in holding facilities to be sent to a shelter for migrant children. . .

An official with Customs and Border Protection, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation into Carlos’s death was in preliminary stages, told reporters that the boy did not show signs of illness in an initial medical screening on the day he was detained.

=================

[turtlespeed 212]

4 hours ago, billvon said:

Number five.  From the NYT:

================

WASHINGTON — A 16-year-old Guatemalan boy who officials said was sick with influenza was found dead at a Border Patrol station in South Texas on Monday morning, after a week of waiting in holding facilities to be sent to a shelter for migrant children. . .

An official with Customs and Border Protection, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation into Carlos’s death was in preliminary stages, told reporters that the boy did not show signs of illness in an initial medical screening on the day he was detained.

=================

That's sad.

[normiss 622]

16 hours ago, billvon said:

Number five.  From the NYT:

================

WASHINGTON — A 16-year-old Guatemalan boy who officials said was sick with influenza was found dead at a Border Patrol station in South Texas on Monday morning, after a week of waiting in holding facilities to be sent to a shelter for migrant children. . .

An official with Customs and Border Protection, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation into Carlos’s death was in preliminary stages, told reporters that the boy did not show signs of illness in an initial medical screening on the day he was detained.

=================

Reports now say this was number 6.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

Seeing as they don't seem to know exactly how many kids are in detention, or where they are, it's not terribly surprising that they don't know how many have died while in custody.

[turtlespeed 212]

4 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Seeing as they don't seem to know exactly how many kids are in detention, or where they are, it's not terribly surprising that they don't know how many have died while in custody.

You are 100% correct.

 

Lets let them all go - just open the doors and shoo them out.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

29 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

You are 100% correct.

 

Lets let them all go - just open the doors and shoo them out.

Or just do something properly and treat humans like humans.

[billvon 2,407]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Lets let them all go - just open the doors and shoo them out.

Much simpler not to put the kids in cages to begin with.  Do what we used to do - hear their story, give them a hearing date and release them with their family until that date.

[turtlespeed 212]

11 minutes ago, billvon said:

Much simpler not to put the kids in cages to begin with.  Do what we used to do - hear their story, give them a hearing date and release them with their family until that date.

I'm not opposed to that, not in the least bit, as long as we can ensure they show up for the hearing.

[billvon 2,407]

6 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

I'm not opposed to that, not in the least bit, as long as we can ensure they show up for the hearing.

Agreed.

Countrywide, 98% of represented kids (i.e. with access to a lawyer) showed up for their court hearings.  76% of nonrepresented kids showed up.  

That suggests a pretty simple solution.

https://trac.syr.edu/phptools/immigration/juvenile/

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/Immigration_Court_Appearances_Feb_2018.pdf

[TriGirl 277]

The other part of the solution is to address what's going on in their countries of origin, and work to make life better in those places so people don't feel the need to risk their (and their kids') lives to migrate to the U.S.