billvon 2,406 #1 December 22, 2017 This guy will go far in the Trump administration. Summary: Ambassador says there are no-go zones in the Netherlands because of Muslims. When asked about it, he replied "I never said that! Fake news!" The interviewer then plays the tape of him saying that, and asks him why he thinks it's fake news. "I didn't call it fake news," he said. It's looking more and more like "fake news" really means "damn, you caught me." ============== The new US ambassador to the Netherlands lied twice to a Dutch news crew about 2015 comments he made saying the country was in chaos because of Muslims. "Chaos in the Netherlands. There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned ... and yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands," said now-US ambassador to the Netherlands Peter Hoekstra in 2015. . . When Wouter Zwart of CNN affiliate and Dutch broadcaster NOS asked about those comments in an interview in the US Capitol, Ambassador Hoekstra said he never said them. "That is actually an incorrect statement; we would call it fake news," the Ambassador responded. "I never said that." Zwart then played the specific portion of Ambassador Hoekstra's 2015 comments . . After an additional discussion on terrorism with the Ambassador, Zwart says he discussed the comments again. His report picks back up with the exchange, with Zwart saying, "You call it fake news. Obviously." "I didn't call that fake news," the Ambassador interjects. "I didn't use the words today. I didn't think I did." ================= http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/22/politics/us-ambassador-to-netherlands-denies-own-comments/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #2 December 22, 2017 billvonThis guy will go far in the Trump administration. Summary: Ambassador says there are no-go zones in the Netherlands because of Muslims. When asked about it, he replied "I never said that! Fake news!" The interviewer then plays the tape of him saying that, and asks him why he thinks it's fake news. "I didn't call it fake news," he said. It's looking more and more like "fake news" really means "damn, you caught me." ============== The new US ambassador to the Netherlands lied twice to a Dutch news crew about 2015 comments he made saying the country was in chaos because of Muslims. "Chaos in the Netherlands. There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned ... and yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands," said now-US ambassador to the Netherlands Peter Hoekstra in 2015. . . When Wouter Zwart of CNN affiliate and Dutch broadcaster NOS asked about those comments in an interview in the US Capitol, Ambassador Hoekstra said he never said them. "That is actually an incorrect statement; we would call it fake news," the Ambassador responded. "I never said that." Zwart then played the specific portion of Ambassador Hoekstra's 2015 comments . . After an additional discussion on terrorism with the Ambassador, Zwart says he discussed the comments again. His report picks back up with the exchange, with Zwart saying, "You call it fake news. Obviously." "I didn't call that fake news," the Ambassador interjects. "I didn't use the words today. I didn't think I did." ================= http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/22/politics/us-ambassador-to-netherlands-denies-own-comments/index.html Politicians lie! Gasp! Whoa, where am I? I must have swooned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #3 December 22, 2017 Oh the look on that reporters face. The sheer 'what the hell is with this guy'-ness of it. And Winsor, sure politicians lie. But they usually lie in the margins. About nuance, about debateable interpretations, about intentions, about things they hope people have forgotten... They don't lie about proveable facts. They certainly don't lie about facts that have just been proven in front of them. And this right here is no nuance, it's some 1984 level of expert falsifying. Honestly, to compare the Trump administration to most other elected officials because 'politicians lie' is to equate a man with a cold to one with bird flu because 'people get sick'. Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,916 #4 December 23, 2017 QuotePoliticians lie! Gasp! Ambassadors are not politicians. But they are paid to lie.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #5 December 23, 2017 gowlerkQuotePoliticians lie! Gasp! Ambassadors are not politicians. But they are paid to lie. This one is a little hard to differentiate, while an ambassador now, the original lie was when he was a politician. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #6 December 23, 2017 jakee Honestly, to compare the Trump administration to most other elected officials because 'politicians lie' is to equate a man with a cold to one with bird flu because 'people get sick'. More like a man with a cold (the traditional politicians) with one with cancer. These guys have on concept of reality or the lowest appreciation of the publics intelligence since the lemmings followed that one guy over the cliff.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlanS 1 #7 December 23, 2017 Bill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. This CNN article is about why Europe will have more of an issue with terrorist than the U.S. And one of them - as pointed out at the end of this linked article - is places like Molenbeek, Belgium. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/europe-terror-ash-carter-isis/index.html QuoteMany European Muslims live close together in neighborhoods like Belgium's Molenbeek, a working-class district that has found notoriety as a hotbed of violent jihadist ideology. Molenbeek has a large, predominantly Muslim population of first-, second- and third-generation immigrants from North Africa. The neighborhood also suffers from soaring youth unemployment estimated at more than 40%. Klugman agreed that marginalization of European Muslims in Belgium and France was a concern and that "long-term" strategies for "better integration" were needed. He said areas where people "with same origins and a lot of problems" were concentrated needed to be broken up. Carter also said that neighborhoods like Molenbeek complicated law enforcement efforts, saying that the attackers "were living among their families and their neighbors so it's very hard for the Belgian law enforcement, European law enforcement to find these people." He added that some of these European citizens were "disaffected, looking for whatever reason for some cause and they find that" in ISIS. "There's an underlying problem here, particularly in the European countries, they're going to need to confront that," he said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #8 December 23, 2017 AlanSBill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. This CNN article is about why Europe will have more of an issue with terrorist than the U.S. And one of them - as pointed out at the end of this linked article - is places like Molenbeek, Belgium. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/europe-terror-ash-carter-isis/index.html QuoteMany European Muslims live close together in neighborhoods like Belgium's Molenbeek, a working-class district that has found notoriety as a hotbed of violent jihadist ideology. Molenbeek has a large, predominantly Muslim population of first-, second- and third-generation immigrants from North Africa. The neighborhood also suffers from soaring youth unemployment estimated at more than 40%. Klugman agreed that marginalization of European Muslims in Belgium and France was a concern and that "long-term" strategies for "better integration" were needed. He said areas where people "with same origins and a lot of problems" were concentrated needed to be broken up. Carter also said that neighborhoods like Molenbeek complicated law enforcement efforts, saying that the attackers "were living among their families and their neighbors so it's very hard for the Belgian law enforcement, European law enforcement to find these people." He added that some of these European citizens were "disaffected, looking for whatever reason for some cause and they find that" in ISIS. "There's an underlying problem here, particularly in the European countries, they're going to need to confront that," he said. Are you kidding? To equate the statement above about Molenbeek with the statement from the idiot: Quote"Chaos in the Netherlands. There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned ... and yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands," said now-US ambassador to the Netherlands Peter Hoekstra in 2015. . . is a hell of a stretch. To claim that there are "no-go zones" where even the police won't enter is ridiculous. The fact that there are "ghettos" where minorities are clustered, where crime is elevated, where unemployment is high, where there are disaffected youth who are ripe for recruitment by terrorists is very true. But to equate the two is utterly false."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #9 December 23, 2017 wolfriverjoe***Bill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. This CNN article is about why Europe will have more of an issue with terrorist than the U.S. And one of them - as pointed out at the end of this linked article - is places like Molenbeek, Belgium. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/24/politics/europe-terror-ash-carter-isis/index.html QuoteMany European Muslims live close together in neighborhoods like Belgium's Molenbeek, a working-class district that has found notoriety as a hotbed of violent jihadist ideology. Molenbeek has a large, predominantly Muslim population of first-, second- and third-generation immigrants from North Africa. The neighborhood also suffers from soaring youth unemployment estimated at more than 40%. Klugman agreed that marginalization of European Muslims in Belgium and France was a concern and that "long-term" strategies for "better integration" were needed. He said areas where people "with same origins and a lot of problems" were concentrated needed to be broken up. Carter also said that neighborhoods like Molenbeek complicated law enforcement efforts, saying that the attackers "were living among their families and their neighbors so it's very hard for the Belgian law enforcement, European law enforcement to find these people." He added that some of these European citizens were "disaffected, looking for whatever reason for some cause and they find that" in ISIS. "There's an underlying problem here, particularly in the European countries, they're going to need to confront that," he said. Are you kidding? To equate the statement above about Molenbeek with the statement from the idiot: Quote"Chaos in the Netherlands. There are cars being burned. There are politicians that are being burned ... and yes, there are no-go zones in the Netherlands," said now-US ambassador to the Netherlands Peter Hoekstra in 2015. . . is a hell of a stretch. To claim that there are "no-go zones" where even the police won't enter is ridiculous. The fact that there are "ghettos" where minorities are clustered, where crime is elevated, where unemployment is high, where there are disaffected youth who are ripe for recruitment by terrorists is very true. But to equate the two is utterly false. All part of the racist, misogynist, bigoted trump administration. "Trump suggested Haitian immigrants to US 'all have AIDS ...Nigerians who gained entrance to the U.S. would never "go back to their huts" in Africa, and that Afghan immigrants came from a terrorist haven." http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/366304-report-trump-suggested-haitian-immigrants-to-us-all-have-aids Of course there is "Trump called Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists in a 2015 speech announcing his candidacy." http://thehill.com/homenews/news/328200-trump-organization-settles-restaurant-lawsuit-with-second-celebrity-chef Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #10 December 23, 2017 Phil1111 All part of the racist, misogynist, bigoted trump administration. "Trump suggested Haitian immigrants to US 'all have AIDS ...Nigerians who gained entrance to the U.S. would never "go back to their huts" in Africa, and that Afghan immigrants came from a terrorist haven." http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/366304-report-trump-suggested-haitian-immigrants-to-us-all-have-aids Of course there is "Trump called Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists in a 2015 speech announcing his candidacy." http://thehill.com/homenews/news/328200-trump-organization-settles-restaurant-lawsuit-with-second-celebrity-chef Bingo. Demonize "certain groups" and go from there. I find it both hilarious and repulsive that the idiot quoted in the OP said the crap about "Muslim No-Go" areas, then denied saying it, claiming it was "fake news" (as in false stories intended to make Trump and his minions look bad), then was presented with video proof of him saying it. Are they so stupid as to think the public will buy anything they say? Or is it that their supporters actually are stupid enough to believe them. I'm more and more afraid that it's the second one."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #11 December 23, 2017 >Bill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? Not at all. >I don't get the point of this thread. That we are now seeing the rise of a new form of politics - the big lie. Politicians have always lied - but before this administration, it was something to be ashamed of, to be hidden if possible and to be forgiven if not. Now we have an administration that seems to revel in it. "I never said X!" "Here's a video of you saying X." "What? I never said that I never said it." "Here's a replay of what you just said." "FAKE NEWS! Biased media! I'm done here; my supporters know what you people are, and they'll support me no matter what fake news you throw in their faces!" The term "fake news" now justifies any lie, no matter how big or small. No longer are politicians held accountable for what they have said or done; they just deny they said or did it and their supporters accept it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #12 December 23, 2017 In a world where lying has become normalized, what is the future of honesty? We are told from childhood that it is wrong to lie, but every day we see evidence that not telling the truth is the way to achieve power and success. For examples, you only have to look at America’s current state of political affairs. “Many Politicians Lie. But Trump Has Elevated the Art of Fabrication,” reads a recent New York Times headline. Russian lies may have not only influenced the 2016 US presidential election, but also international events from Brexit to this week’s Catalonian referendum. Most recently, fake news proliferated in the aftermath of the Las Vegas massacre “as people looking for information read and shared bogus reports and hoaxes without even realizing it.” The political, financial, and personal havoc and pain created by these lies is immeasurable, yet nothing seems to stop them—and, ultimately, no one seems to care terribly much. As Politifact writes, Trump takes “a bold approach to truthfulness—essentially saying: Catch me if you can—and even if you do, it doesn’t matter.” https://qz.com/1096562/donald-trumps-lies-in-a-world-where-lying-has-become-normalized-what-is-the-future-of-honesty/ Why Is Donald Trump Still So Horribly Witless About the World? Max Boot, a lifelong conservative who advised three Republican Presidential candidates on foreign policy, keeps a folder labelled “Trump Stupidity File” on his computer. It’s next to his “Trump Lies” file. “Not sure which is larger at this point,” he told me this week. “It’s neck-and-neck.”... “The sheer scale of his lack of knowledge is what has astounded me—and I had low expectations to begin with,” David Gordon, the director of the State Department’s policy-planning staff under Condoleezza Rice, during the Bush Administration, told me.... Trump’s policy mistakes, large and small, are taking a toll. “American leadership in the world—how do I phrase this, it’s so obvious, but apparently not to him—is critical to our success, and it depends eighty per cent on the credibility of the President’s word,” John McLaughlin, who worked at the C.I.A. under seven Presidents, from Richard Nixon to George W. Bush, and ended up as the intelligence agency’s acting director, told me. “Trump thinks having a piece of chocolate cake at Mar-a-Lago bought him a relationship with Xi Jinping. He came in as the least prepared President we’ve had on foreign policy," McLaughlin added. “Our leadership in the world is slipping away. It’s slipping through our hands.”... https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/why-is-donald-trump-still-so-horribly-witless-about-the-world Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #13 December 24, 2017 QuoteBill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? What are places like Molenbeek, Belgium, like? Is Molenbeek, Belgium, a place where police won't go? Is it a place where cars are burned? I actually googled it to see if any politicians had been burned there and found this: "The popular notion that the area is a more brutal version of south-central LA is nothing short of vaudeville. In the weeks I spent here I walked everywhere, at all hours. I confess to having occasionally dawdled on streets with a reputation for petty crime, close to the Brussels-Charleroi Canal, effectively inviting trouble. While it's not an exercise I'd necessarily recommend, the worst that happened to me was that a woman stopped to offer directions." And Belgium is also, just so we're clear, not in the Netherlands. It is a different country. I wouldn't expect a normal american to know that, but I kinda hope the ambassador does. QuoteI don't get the point of this thread. I don't get the point of your point.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #14 December 24, 2017 wolfriverjoe Or is it that their supporters actually are stupid enough to believe them. I'm more and more afraid that it's the second one. A certain poster on here is proof of that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #15 December 24, 2017 AlanSBill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. This CNN article is about why Europe will have more of an issue with terrorist than the U.S. And one of them - as pointed out at the end of this linked article - is places like Molenbeek, Belgium. THAT has nothing whatever to do with the lying ambassador who not only lied about his previous lie, but then lied about lying about it - all recorded on video.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #16 December 24, 2017 Phil1111 All part of the racist, misogynist, bigoted trump administration. "Trump suggested Haitian immigrants to US 'all have AIDS ...Nigerians who gained entrance to the U.S. would never "go back to their huts" in Africa, and that Afghan immigrants came from a terrorist haven." http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/366304-report-trump-suggested-haitian-immigrants-to-us-all-have-aids In a related note, Sarah Sanders denies that Trump ever said that. Quote"General Kelly, General McMaster, Secretary Tillerson, Secretary Nielsen, and all other senior staff actually in the meeting deny these outrageous claims and it's both sad and telling the New York Times would print the lies of their anonymous 'sources' anyway," Sanders said. Let's see. Who do I believe? Trump and his minions or an "anonymous source" from inside the White House. Hmmm... Let me think. How often have "anonymous sources" been quoted, how often has Trump denied those reports, and how often have they later turned out to be true? A bunch of times. How often have the "anonymous sources" been wrong? How often have Trump's denials turned out to be true? Not a single one that I can remember."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #17 December 24, 2017 Hi Joe, QuoteGeneral Kelly, General McMaster, Secretary Tillerson, Secretary Nielsen . . . deny When these people actually deny it in their own words, I might then believe her. She is the queen of fake news. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilGenius 0 #18 December 24, 2017 jakeeQuoteBill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? What are places like Molenbeek, Belgium, like? Is Molenbeek, Belgium, a place where police won't go? Is it a place where cars are burned? I actually googled it to see if any politicians had been burned there and found this: "The popular notion that the area is a more brutal version of south-central LA is nothing short of vaudeville. In the weeks I spent here I walked everywhere, at all hours. I confess to having occasionally dawdled on streets with a reputation for petty crime, close to the Brussels-Charleroi Canal, effectively inviting trouble. While it's not an exercise I'd necessarily recommend, the worst that happened to me was that a woman stopped to offer directions." And Belgium is also, just so we're clear, not in the Netherlands. It is a different country. I wouldn't expect a normal american to know that, but I kinda hope the ambassador does. QuoteI don't get the point of this thread. I don't get the point of your point. I don't get the point of this either Molenbeek's fine, I live there....kinda sick of all the bullshit going around right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
evh 22 #19 December 24, 2017 AlanS Bill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. Belgium is not the Netherlands. Thats like saying the US is the same as Mexico. I am sure you wouldn't want to have anything to do with them? For the record, nothing this ambassador said is even remotely true. Sure, we have some problems, but nothing like this idiot was claiming he never said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #20 December 25, 2017 evh ***Bill are you trying to deny that places like Molenbeek, Belgium exist? I don't get the point of this thread. Belgium is not the Netherlands. Thats like saying the US is the same as Mexico. I am sure you wouldn't want to have anything to do with them? For the record, nothing this ambassador said is even remotely true. Sure, we have some problems, but nothing like this idiot was claiming he never said. You must be wrong or a "spreader of Fake News". 1. November 2, 2017 FOX news reported: "BRUSSELS – A Belgian mayor is banning Dutch far-right leader Geert Wilders and Belgian anti-immigrant politician Filip Dewinter from holding a rally in the Molenbeek, a Muslim-majority Brussels neighborhood. Francoise Schepmans said the two men had described their planned visit on Friday to Molenbeek as an "Islam Safari" in the "Jihadi capital of Europe." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/11/02/belgian-mayor-bans-far-right-rally-in-flashpoint-quarter.html and FOX news uses the current "Fair and Balanced" slogan together with “Most Watched. Most Trusted.” 2. President drumph of the United States of America has stated that "Brussels as a "living hellhole". http://www.dw.com/en/brussels-district-molenbeek-fights-terrorist-label/a-19048396 After all America has a. 16% more crime. b. 2.5 times the murder rate. c. 3 times the violent crime rate. d. 72 times more violent murders. e. 40% less physicians per 1000 people. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Belgium/United-States f. 1-2% shorter life expectancy. g. 50% greater health care costs. h. 13% worse health care results. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Belgium/United-States/Health Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhays 86 #21 December 25, 2017 What an excellent website...cheers for that!“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,130 #22 January 2, 2018 A look another American who probably finished High School and doesn't know any basic geography. The problem with the US isn't Trump, the problem is that the majority of the population is too stupid to understand simple things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #23 January 2, 2018 2017 was the safest year for flying ever, and Trump is falsely taking credit https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16840732/2017-airline-safety-trump Trump budget would raise deficit $46B for air traffic control https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/05/23/trump-budget-would-raise-deficit-air-traffic-control/102026976/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #24 January 2, 2018 Hi Sky, Quote the majority of the population is too stupid to understand simple things. If one were to count newborns & up, that might be true. Over 3 million voters voted for Clinton rather than Trump. There is hope for us, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #25 January 2, 2018 JerryBaumchenHi Sky, Quote the majority of the population is too stupid to understand simple things. If one were to count newborns & up, that might be true. Over 3 million voters voted for Clinton rather than Trump. There is hope for us, Jerry Baumchen It is estimated that as a result of gerrymandering, the Dems need an 8 point lead over the GOP in order to have an equal number of representatives in the House.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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