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Jordan82

Katana's dont kill people...

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...friends who let friends fly Katanas kill people.

TRUE or FALSE?

I fly a Katana, and am getting lots of grief about it from "professional" swoopers.
I understand that the recovery arch is not manageable compared to newer/better wings.
I would not want to jump a Katana smaller than this one.
I did not seek this parachute out. It found me. It is what's in my rig. I feel like I should be allowed to jump it if I want to.
My wing loading is 1.7:1.
I have 700 sport jumps.
I flew a Crossfire 119 before, and a Stilletto 150 before that.
Any advice?
Thanks.

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You're not exactly a student. By now you should have learned to tell people to go fuck them selves. If you're not capable of that by now not only are you not qualified to jump a Katana you have no business skydiving at all.

And whats wrong with a freaking Katana?

Any one that does not reconise a perfectly good canopy like that has just become way too stuck up and snobbish. They also need to be kicked off the drop zone so they can go join some even more elitist sport where they can measure their dick size with the size of their wallet.

Lee
Lee
lee@velocitysportswear.com
www.velocitysportswear.com

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Katanas are an awesome tool and a great parachute for developing high performance landings IMO. The issue is when people jump on them and fly them the same as their stiletto and think they can get away with the same low toggle turns.

My advice would be to find yourself a coach that can refine your technique to help you fly as safe as possible (whether that be doing straight-in approaches or 450s). If taught correctly, the katana can be safer than other fast-recovering canopies for swooping as a longer roll-out time means you've got more time to react and save your ass from bouncing.

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Jordan82


...I did not seek this parachute out. It found me. It is what's in my rig. I feel like I should be allowed to jump it if I want to...



I guess the above is what bothers me the most.

Something like a Katana isn't a canopy that should 'find you.'

It should be a conscious, deliberate choice.

And why does your profile show a lot more jumps than your post?

Is it just the swoopers who are giving you grief, or is the DZ telling you you can't jump there with it?
Generally, the swoopers have seen more than a few accidents.
They've also seen the DGITs, and tried to persuade them to take a slower, more conservative path. Some listened, some didn't.
Some who didn't paid the price.

The ones I know are doing it to save the jumper from his own bad judgement, not just to be a dick.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Jordan82

...friends who let friends fly Katanas kill people.

TRUE or FALSE?



False. The Katana is a perfectly fine canopy. However, like any canopy it has specific flight characteristics and must be flown accordingly.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Let me elaborate on "it found me"...
Sorry, I should have left that out of the post.
The Katana 107 was the only wing in my range at the dropzone when I was downsizing from the Crossfire 119. I flew it 5 times, I liked it, then I bought it.
Thanks for your concerns with MY safety.
The purpose of this post, however, is that I want to know why people think Katana's are unsafe.

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Jordan82

Let me elaborate on "it found me"...
Sorry, I should have left that out of the post.
The Katana 107 was the only wing in my range at the dropzone when I was downsizing from the Crossfire 119. I flew it 5 times, I liked it, then I bought it.
Thanks for your concerns with MY safety.
The purpose of this post, however, is that I want to know why people think Katanas are unsafe.



They aren't.

They are advanced canopies that should be piloted by people who have the skills and experience to do so.

I have no clue who you are, so I have no clue if you can or cannot pilot it safely.
You may well be able to.

However, if 'professional swoopers' are warning you that you are being unsafe under it, then you may want to park your ego and think about it.

And I cannot delete my previous post, as you have requested. There's a time window for editing on here. That has passed, and it takes 'moderator powers' to do anything about it.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Jordan82

Let me elaborate on "it found me"...
Sorry, I should have left that out of the post.
The Katana 107 was the only wing in my range at the dropzone when I was downsizing from the Crossfire 119. I flew it 5 times, I liked it, then I bought it.
Thanks for your concerns with MY safety.
The purpose of this post, however, is that I want to know why people think Katana's are unsafe.



I don't have the experience to comment on the canopy, but perhaps define "giving you grief". Are they saying youre unsafe by how you fly it? Or that generally they think its an unsafe canopy, despite your skill/behavior?
blank

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People say such things about Katanas because they're very definitely a wing for an active pilot.

You have to fly openings. The Katana isn't going to help you if you're low. As you load them up, you have to fly every second. The KA demands respect.

Some people aren't ready for that level of performance or that level of commitment.

On the other point, if you have people telling you not to fly them, you should want to find out if they're talking about the Katana not being a good wing and if not why (I think they're really fun). If they're talking about you personally, I encourage you to find out why and figure out if you're putting yourself at unnecessary risk.

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Who wrote your ‘bucket list?’
You or them?

I have seen a few junior jumpers injured after letting other jumpers buy canopies too small for their skills. Skills are only loosely related to number of jumps.
Sometimes the seller just wants to unload his old canopy. Sometimes the seller wants to talk the junior jumper into buying this year’s fashion.
Sometimes the salesman tries to talk the junior jumper into buying the canopy that the salesman wants to buy next. After the buyer femurs, the salesman will be able to buy the canopy at a deep discount.
Sometimes people talk junior jumpers into buying a heavily-loaded canopy “because they will want to downsize soon.”
Ultimately, your choice of canopy should be based on your skills and which canopy you can fly safely and comfortably.

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B|
thanks guys for your feedback.
wolfriverjoe, you questioned my jump numbers and talk down to me. i hope my personal message offended you. think about me the next time you try to coach someone you don't know. ask questions first. never assume. if you expect someone in this forum to take you seriously, get a few jumps under you belt and... oh say... maybe an instructor rating!?
thanks all (including wolfriverjoe) this seems to have been more of an anger-managment vent-sesh for me now.
now i will be cool, calm, and collected when i talk to the sky-gods tomorrow.
cheers!
i love you all.
;)

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Jordan82

B|
thanks guys for your feedback.
wolfriverjoe, you questioned my jump numbers and talk down to me. i hope my personal message offended you. think about me the next time you try to coach someone you don't know. ask questions first. never assume. if you expect someone in this forum to take you seriously, get a few jumps under you belt and... oh say... maybe an instructor rating!?
thanks all (including wolfriverjoe) this seems to have been more of an anger-managment vent-sesh for me now.
now i will be cool, calm, and collected when i talk to the sky-gods tomorrow.
cheers!
i love you all.
;)



Maybe you shouldn’t post in a public forum with such thin skin.

As for a Katana, I like mine as long as I open somewhere near the DZ cause otherwise she ain’t going to make it back and it’s not a fun canopy to land in a backyard,

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How much do you know about your canopy?
Do you know the steering lines need to be replaced every 200-400 jumps?
Do you know what happens if you don’t?
I watched a good friend’s steering line break at 50’.
He lived, but femured and injured his shoulder.
http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/HMA_lines-_history_of_snapping_without_warning_P367436
See post #20.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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Canopy? like in the jungle?
I just want to go really really fast, really really close to the ground!
Femur? Do you mean Lemur? like in the jungle?
200-400 jumps!! wow thats a lot. a lot of jumping. 'might as well climb a tree to the top of the canopy and look for lemurs!
wow!
thanks for sending me a link
i hope there's monkeys swinging from vines there!
....like in the jungle
swooooooooop er salad
whhhoooooooshhhhhhhhhhh
::::::::))))))))))))))))))))))))

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Jordan82

I fly a Katana, and am getting lots of grief about it from "professional" swoopers.



Maybe it would help if you explained the nature of the grief the swoopers are giving you.

In principle, there is nothing wrong with a person flying a Katana - otherwise I am certain PD would not still be selling them.

And yet... some people should not be flying one. You might be one of those people, or you might not. You've given us nothing to go on, other than you have jumped some other canopies (no information on how much, or how well it went) and didn't die.

Without that, this is a silly thread.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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Before all recent fast canopies like Walkyrie, Velocity and all cross braced canopies, the Katana was the choice of the swoopers. If you talk to experienced swoopers, most of them started with a Katana.

I have a Katana and made more than 700 jumps on it. So far, it is my best canopy ever. Not a single malfunction (and many packers packed it, rookies and experienced). I had a few times opened it when my track was not completely finished, it was rough but relatively smooth considering the circumstances. Otherwise, openings are always smooth with an average of 600 feet to open, evaluated from 10 jumps using my Vigil 2 data with interface.

If well packed and if after PC launch you take the box position and look at the horizon, it likely will open on heading. Otherwise, expect ½ turn to several ones that you can control by shifting your weight the other side of the turn ie, if it turns left, lift up your left leg, that makes you have the weight on the right side, insist a bit and the canopy will stop turning. If not, use your toggles.

OTOH, the Katana has a long toggles range and that makes any move smoother and more precise. What I like the most is that the Katana is very docile when applying some input (8 inches) on toggles but if you want something not so docile, pull progressively one toggle one foot or more and you will see that the Katana is a canopy quite exciting. Do that above 1500 feet since the recovery arc is 400 feet. And one of the best features, due to the 18 degrees deflection angle, it goes down fast, and gives you the speed for an incredible flare.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Thanks for all the advice sky-people.
I flew a Stilleto 150 @ 1.2:1 for three years, but only put 200 jumps on it. I saw people who I once coached downsizing and swooping. I wasn't stupid enough to downsize early. However, I did try to make that Stilleto swoop. I finally got a job at a dropzone and started jumping more. After 500 jumps I transitioned to a crossfire 119 and then at 600ish the Katana 107. I've done downwinders in +10kts, crosswinders, stab-outs, etc. all with no bad outcomes except a bruised ego and zero sexy points. I come from the school of "if it aint broke, dont fix it". People like me, however, are bad for business at my new (tandem factory) dropzone. I came in too low too many times. ...stabbed out; didn't even skip. But, they took it upon themselves to take me out of the rotation and off my katana. I am back on the crossfire 119 now. I don't jump enough to make my turns sexy so I am ok with this.
Sorry for being a dick.
Aloha.
-J

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Think of all this in this capacity. I see people spend lots of time trying to be good at something athletic, golf,basketball, tennis, ect....

Some people get better, some don't get better, and others take off.

It just comes down to coordination, and balance. Some people are gifted with this from birth, others have to work on it, and others should not chew gum and walk at the same time.

I feel like it is less the wing, and loading, and more the ability to feel.

just my .02

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Once you fly something crossbraced you will understand. At some point you will find yourself deep in the corner and how quickly you can assess you fucked up and fix it will determine the outcome. A velo or any other cross braced wing will dig out faster and harder than a katana ever could. As soon as i got off my katana and onto a velo, it all made sense. I felt safer and more in control. It behaved and flew like a katana but had more power and the ability to dig if you need it where the katana just didnt. That being said, I loved my katana. In a pinch it will not dig you out as well as other stuff will. If you accept that then, fuck it, jump it. Katanas dont kill people, people kill themselves.
I was that kid jumping out if his tree house with a bed sheet. My dad wouldn't let me use the ladder to try the roof...

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