Trump's Afghanistan speech

[normiss 622]

So what I got out of this is, he wants to double down on the policies he hates and also created the terrorist problems the world now suffers from.
I would expect the terrorists to do the same.
Resulting in more acts of terrorism the world over
Yay.

This fucking guy.

[jclalor 12]

Stay the course for another 4 years until we get a new POTUS.

[quade 3]

jclalor

Stay the course for another 4 years until we get a new POTUS.

I'm not sure it's an actual -rule- of being a politician, but if you can maintain status quo on total bullshit and kick the can down the road to the next guy -- bonus.

That and . . . "We have always been at war with Eastasia."

Sadly, war is "good for business." Oh sure, it's fucking murder and blood money, but at least somebody is making a buck off it. It also mesmerizes the masses (well, the dumber ones at least) into believing you're some kind of fucking hero for killing people, so it's good for the polls with some people.

"Mission Accomplished!"

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,130]

I thought it was interesting that both Pakistan and India were indicated as high risk areas where terrorists could travel from.

Of course neither country is on the travel ban list.

[normiss 622]

More scores for the courts.

[DJL 232]

normiss

So what I got out of this is, he wants to double down on the policies he hates and also created the terrorist problems the world now suffers from.
I would expect the terrorists to do the same.
Resulting in more acts of terrorism the world over
Yay.

This fucking guy.

Seems like he's listening to his advisers. I agree that leaving the area would endanger it to AlQ, Taliban, ISIS filling the gap and gaining a stronghold. At that point we'll never get back in short of another 9/11 or ISIS level event.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Phil1111 913]

DJL

***So what I got out of this is, he wants to double down on the policies he hates and also created the terrorist problems the world now suffers from.
I would expect the terrorists to do the same.
Resulting in more acts of terrorism the world over
Yay.

This fucking guy.

Seems like he's listening to his advisers. I agree that leaving the area would endanger it to AlQ, Taliban, ISIS filling the gap and gaining a stronghold. At that point we'll never get back in short of another 9/11 or ISIS level event.

Yes but he has a temperament of flip-flopping. It won't take long for it to happen on this issue. He is right about Pakistan as a breeding ground for terrorism, educating Taliban in the

" All of these groups are rooted in a network of seminaries, or as the term is called in the local vernacular, "madrassa." My argument was that the main source of funding for these groups is Saudi Arabia. In fact, this whole phenomenon that we are confronting, which Al Qaeda is a part of, is very closely associated with Saudi Arabia's financial and religious projects for the Muslim world as a whole. "
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/analyses/madrassas.html

The defence secretary, Jim Mattis, is reviewing plans “for a path forward”. He and the national security adviser, General H.R. McMaster, both served in Afghanistan. Their instinct will be to recommend that Mr Trump set a bolder objective than Mr Obama was willing to endorse and refrain from setting timetables that ignore military reality.

Even then, Mr Cordesman argues, Mr Trump will also have to pep up Afghanistan’s political leaders. Corruption, as much as insecurity, has stymied international efforts to revive Afghanistan’s sickly economy. Without some progress on that front, no amount of external military support will kill off the insurgency.
https://www.economist.com/news/asia/21717835-will-he-pull-out-or-double-down-donald-trump-holds-afghanistans-future-his-hands

As usual this is a far more complex issue than trump is capable of digesting. Pakistan, a corrupt nuclear power, has suffered tens of thousands of civilian and military casualties fighting the Taliban. While the government and population to a greater and lessor degree support the Taliban.

Radical Islam support from the Saudi's private sponsorship of these schools in Pakistan are the training grounds of the new cannon fodder for US troops.

[Lawndarter 3]

jclalor

Stay the course for another 4 years until we get a new POTUS.

And how many more flag draped coffins will come back from that lost cause?

[jclalor 12]

DJL

***So what I got out of this is, he wants to double down on the policies he hates and also created the terrorist problems the world now suffers from.
I would expect the terrorists to do the same.
Resulting in more acts of terrorism the world over
Yay.

This fucking guy.

Seems like he's listening to his advisers. I agree that leaving the area would endanger it to AlQ, Taliban, ISIS filling the gap and gaining a stronghold. At that point we'll never get back in short of another 9/11 or ISIS level event.


Not his advisers, but advisers from our military are probably trying to steer him clear from all of the moving parts. God only knows what his appointees are telling him.

I usually think it's a bad idea having Generals getting too much pull in dictating foreign policy, this is not one of them.

[yoink 321]

Lawndarter

***Stay the course for another 4 years until we get a new POTUS.

And how many more flag draped coffins will come back from that lost cause?

So what would you do if you were him?

I honestly don't think there's a good answer to this one. More troops and longer occupation was pretty much inevitable I think - the only ridiculousness of it was how anti-troops and anti-involvement Trump was before he was president... the man had an opinion on everything; usually an uninformed one.

[SkyDekker 1,130]

Quote

So what would you do if you were him?

Probably not base my decision on a 1972 picture of women in skirts.

If part of this story is true....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/h-r-mcmaster-reportedly-gave-051814902.html

[Lawndarter 3]

yoink

So what would you do if you were him?

I honestly don't think there's a good answer to this one. More troops and longer occupation was pretty much inevitable I think - the only ridiculousness of it was how anti-troops and anti-involvement Trump was before he was president... the man had an opinion on everything; usually an uninformed one.

End it. Leave. There's nothing good coming of further involvement, it's an endless quagmire we cannot solve.

And I say that as someone who served there. I wanted to believe we were doing good there and that there was some prospect of "victory".

I don't anymore. It's time to leave.

[yoink 321]

I agree with you that's it's a quagmire that can't be solved by our involvement, but leaving also doesn't solve things and would probably make life worse for everyone. The two events wouldn't have equally bad outcomes.
Personally I think that if terrorism is bad now, it'd be a hundred times worse if the cooalition just up and left.

The problem is who has the stomach for an endless, unwinnable war? It's not exactly the most moral boosting mission statement for the troops...

[gowlerk 1,916]

Ask the Russians for ideas. They've had some experience there. If they can't help ask the Brits. They may have some institutional memory. It will end the same for America as it did for those two.

Why don't the generals see this? They probably do. But what fun is it running a military if you don't have military stuff to do?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[DJL 232]

SkyDekker

Quote

So what would you do if you were him?

Probably not base my decision on a 1972 picture of women in skirts.

If part of this story is true....

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/h-r-mcmaster-reportedly-gave-051814902.html

What can you say, he knows how to speak to the man, he used pictures, small words, and women.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[quade 3]

yoink

The problem is who has the stomach for an endless, unwinnable war?

Well, it HAS been good for those in the business of blood money. If somebody really wants to know motivations of keeping it going ask those people first.

The next people to ask are those that will profit from the natural resources on the off chance that one day they are able to exploit them. It has been estimated there is about a trillion dollars in the ground of Afghanistan. If it costs a few 10s of billions of dollars to someday be able to get control over them, I think you'll find most people would still think that is a bargain . . . for them.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[yoink 321]

quade

***The problem is who has the stomach for an endless, unwinnable war?

Well, it HAS been good for those in the business of blood money. If somebody really wants to know motivations of keeping it going ask those people first.

The next people to ask are those that will profit from the natural resources on the off chance that one day they are able to exploit them. It has been estimated there is about a trillion dollars in the ground of Afghanistan. If it costs a few 10s of billions of dollars to someday be able to get control over them, I think you'll find most people would still think that is a bargain . . . for them.


Privatize Afghanistan?

Here comes the rise of the super-corporations - It'd be like something out of a science fiction movie. If one of them isn't called Weyland Yutani I'm going to be really upset.

[quade 3]

yoink

Privatize Afghanistan?

This is what Erik Prince has been pushing for. He'd take over responsibility of controlling the population and it's safe to say where that would lead; he'd be the de facto dictator.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/afghanistan-camp-david/537324/

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,391]

Trump’s ‘America First’ Base Unhappy with Flip-Flop Afghanistan Speech

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/21/trumps-america-first-base-unhappy-with-flip-flop-afghanistan-speech/

Ouch!

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[yoink 321]

quade

***Privatize Afghanistan?

This is what Erik Prince has been pushing for. He'd take over responsibility of controlling the population and it's safe to say where that would lead; he'd be the de facto dictator.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/afghanistan-camp-david/537324/

Oh good, that'd be the same Blackwater that said it was getting out of the security business in Iraq after murdering 17 civilians.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/22/usa.iraq

Yup, they've certainly got the pedigree for a despotic sci-fi super-corporation.

[Lawndarter 3]

yoink

Oh good, that'd be the same Blackwater that said it was getting out of the security business in Iraq after murdering 17 civilians.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/22/usa.iraq

Yup, they've certainly got the pedigree for a despotic sci-fi super-corporation.

They never had any intention of doing so of course, they just rebranded a couple of times. They, and the various other contractors involved in the business of war - DynCorp, Triple Canopy, Fluor, Blackwater/Xe/Academi, and so many others generate phenomenal profits by ripping off taxpayers with little or no oversight or accountability whatsoever. It was mindblowing to watch it happen in Afghanistan.

[ryoder 1,391]

Lawndarter

...DynCorp, Triple Canopy, Fluor, Blackwater/Xe/Academi...

After all the rebranding of that company, I've always wondered why Prince didn't just take a tip from another fellow named "Prince", and choose an unpronounceable symbol for his company.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[tkhayes 135]

Erik Prince is a very very dangerous person IMO. And should be summarily drummed out of anything to do with the US govt or contracting.

[quade 3]

tkhayes

Erik Prince is a very very dangerous person IMO. And should be summarily drummed out of anything to do with the US govt or contracting.

And yet, there he is with the ear of the current occupant of the Oval who is also more than willing to favor Prince's completely unqualified relatives with government appointments.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[winsor 187]

ryoder

***...DynCorp, Triple Canopy, Fluor, Blackwater/Xe/Academi...

After all the rebranding of that company, I've always wondered why Prince didn't just take a tip from another fellow named "Prince", and choose an unpronounceable symbol for his company.

Hey, the symbol IS pronounceable. It sounds like 'prins.'