Flynn wants immunity to testify on Russia allegations

[normiss 622]

All you're interested in are facts.
Then you post youtube videos as proof.

Got it.

[jclalor 12]

Royreader8812

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIh-CadZweI

Looks like all this bullshit is moving away from whether Russia had anything to do with hacking the election, and onto the fact that the Security departments have broken the law 'BIGTIME' by pushing the propaganda out and it does not look good for the story most of you here seem to believe.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

"Bullshit"? What would you call Gowdy's crazed obsession with Benghazi that never proved a single thing?

[normiss 622]

But Hillary! OBAMA for christ sake!!!

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

That is the direction your cadre of internet trolls has been told to push. But I don't think it's going to work all that well for you or your boss.

OK lets test your theory that I am some paid internet troll from Russia and not a Skydiver interested in politics that happens to have opposing thought processes to you.

Because in case you didn't notice. Not everyone is falling for this bullshit.

Ask me a technical or social question about skydiving that would not be openly available to everyone/google, but something I should know if I have been a skydiver for over a circa 15 years and have more than 10,000 jump.

Though I have been skydiving for a decade less than you, I have more than 6 times the jumps you have. It is safe to say that you should be able to strike some sort of question that I should be able to answer as a skydiver to clear this up so you can refrain from talking about me and some whacked out conspiracy theories, so we can stick to the subject at hand.

Something that will not be in a manual or found in a google search.

Lets lay this thing to rest please.

Though my account is anonymous, that is within the rules. Personal attacks are not, and you and others making false accusations to shelter your weak assertions, is actually a waste of everyone time... You just make yourself look like an idiot.

I really don't care, but I want to call you out on your retarded, baseless bullshit.

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

"Bullshit"? What would you call Gowdy's crazed obsession with Benghazi that never proved a single thing?

LOL, This question is more of an answer to me. You are not interested in truth.

I never said Gowdy is an impeccable person, nor do I have a strong stance on his involvement in the Benghazi affair, I am not a religious man and he very much is.

It is safe to say I don't agree with everything he says, nor do I have much of an understanding of his career.

However, I do know he is a seasoned prosecutor and in a position to question these gentlemen that have posed the assertion that the Russians hacked the election, through reports coming from the institutions they head..

His questions relate not to the Russians, but the leaking of classified information that is coming out out of these institutions, and into the media that is being used to prop up the rhetoric of the 'Russian hacking scandal'.

When he asks Comey a question about the legality of this information coming out and into the media being a felony, and Comey agrees that this is the case... How does his involvement in the Benghazi affair, have anything to do with it?

The 'fact' that the media and you and all the people crying wolf, seem to care less that criminal activity is being used at the highest level to prop up this whole charade, is quite telling. You lot have no interest in the truth.

Still there are no facts pertaining to the involvement of Russia?

Even though the NSA FBI and CIA are involved and leaking out information to pin it on them... LOL.

Weak would be an understatement.


This to me, shows that integrity is not as common as bias in this discussion.

Your question is more a statement of deceit, for the above reasons.

2 + 2 = 4, no matter who says it.

[gowlerk 1,929]

Royreader8812

Quote

That is the direction your cadre of internet trolls has been told to push. But I don't think it's going to work all that well for you or your boss.

OK lets test your theory that I am some paid internet troll from Russia and not a Skydiver interested in politics that happens to have opposing thought processes to you.

Because in case you didn't notice. Not everyone is falling for this bullshit.

Ask me a technical or social question about skydiving that would not be openly available to everyone/google, but something I should know if I have been a skydiver for over a circa 15 years and have more than 10,000 jump.

Though I have been skydiving for a decade less than you, I have more than 6 times the jumps you have. It is safe to say that you should be able to strike some sort of question that I should be able to answer as a skydiver to clear this up so you can refrain from talking about me and some whacked out conspiracy theories, so we can stick to the subject at hand.

Something that will not be in a manual or found in a google search.

Lets lay this thing to rest please.

Though my account is anonymous, that is within the rules. Personal attacks are not, and you and others making false accusations to shelter your weak assertions, is actually a waste of everyone time... You just make yourself look like an idiot.

I really don't care, but I want to call you out on your retarded, baseless bullshit.

You likely are what you say. However, at least two other people sometimes post under the same name as you. One of them barely can use English. Little green men?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

All you're interested in are facts.
Then you post youtube videos as proof.

Got it.

Fact 1:

leaking classified information as a federal employee is a felony.

Fact 2:

Gowdy asked Comey in this video if this was the case.

Fact 3: Comey agreed

Your sarcastic "Got It", is weak at best.

Are you guys really this weak?

surely you have something substantial to have such an opinion... or are the tin foil hats affecting the affecting your thought processes?

When were people so gullible? Germany in the late 30's?

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

You likely are what you say. However, at least two other people sometimes post under the same name as you. One of them barely can use English. Little green men?

Here is a clue for you. Sometimes those who are engaged in online conversation, are people at home, on a desktop or laptop computer with a cup of tea and a nice big screen and a keyboard... at this time they have time and a nice view of everything they write...

at other times they are on a small mobile device, with fat thumbs, an aggressive auto correct,a cracked screen, no time and a on screen keyboard that takes up 1/3 of the viewing area and on an old website that is not as mobile friendly as others...

Some people are better at reading between the lines themselves and don't tend to use ad hominem, they also might care less about perfect punctuation and are more interested in discussing the truth. while others when stuck for an explanation will used ad hominem to continue to argue against the person changing the subject at hand from the post they were discussing, to the mannerisms and past history of those they are trying to refute.

The short answer is I have fat thumbs and could care less what you think of my spelling and grammar, you get the point regardless. if not, then you are not worth debating.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

Royreader8812

OK lets test your theory that I am some paid internet troll from Russia and not a Skydiver interested in politics that happens to have opposing thought processes to you.

Because in case you didn't notice. Not everyone is falling for this bullshit.

Ask me a technical or social question about skydiving that would not be openly available to everyone/google, but something I should know if I have been a skydiver for over a circa 15 years and have more than 10,000 jump...


...I really don't care, but I want to call you out on your retarded, baseless bullshit.

Nobody is saying you aren't a jumper.

But your posts, from the very beginning, have been pure "I love the Kremlin" themed. You even claimed that the Russian strikes in Syria were against ISIS, when they were going after civilians (and questioned whether or not it was Russian airstrikes that hit the hospitals - who else had planes in the air in that vicinity?)

You make repeated claims with no backup. Typical.

We've seen "you" before. "Nebylyin" (or something like that) was one of you. He was pro-Russian in the Ukraine situation. He loved to claim that the Ukrainian government (the one that took over from Putin's puppets) were all Nazis.

Clint Watts testified before the Senate Intel committee this past week. The evidence of Russian "involvement" in the campaign is pretty solid.

His main point was how the "human aspect", the propaganda aspect of the involvement was virtually unnoticed, yet very powerful.

You know, spreading of "baseless bullshit" to sway the masses. Something the Russians have been rather good at for a very long time.

Edit to add:

Flynn is in more hot water. Failed to disclose payments...

From Russia. Including "RT", which has close ties to Putin.

Go figure.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Phil1111 915]

Here is a clue for you.

You don't need a license to have, or offer, an opinion here. Don't even need one jump. Just be prepared to defend it.

Under Putin Russia has had no substantive economic growth.

Under Putin Russia has been caught red handed cheating in an institutionalized way at multiple Olympics.
"admission by Anna Antseliovich, the acting director-general of Russia’s anti-doping agency, that her country’s Olympic athletes did, in fact, systematically hack the system with the blessing of the government."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/russia-finally-confesses-to-cheating-at-the-olympics-now-it-has-to-pay-the-price/article33443694/

Putin has consistently denied invading Crimea and Ukraine. Its been under international sanctions for that and remains so.

The Putin government has made no effort to prosecute the murders of Putin Critics.

You mention internet election meddling "proof". The proof that the German, US, UK and French security services have with regards to Russian actions are not shared with the public. They are shared in international security conference meetings between those respective governments. Those meetings will result in decisions that renew and/or expand sanctions.

Its unfortunate that the Russian people have to a large extent placed trust and hope in Putin. They deserve better and sooner or later will get better. Then likely realize how they have been mislead by the Putin kleptocracy.

[jclalor 12]

Your desire to believe is greater than your desire know.

[billvon 2,435]

>Are there any actual 'facts' now to 'prove' Russia, "Hacked" the election?

===========
Did Putin Direct Russian Hacking? And Other Big Questions

Did Moscow influence the U.S. election? Who else has been hacked? Could the CIA be wrong?
Gary Cameron
Reuters

Jan 6, 2017

In a “declassified version of a highly classified assessment” released on Friday January 6, the U.S. intelligence community laid out its judgment that “Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election,” with the specific goal of harming Hillary Clinton’s “electability and potential presidency.” The report went on: “We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, said at a hearing on foreign cyberthreats to the United States: “Every American should be alarmed by Russia’s attacks on our nation.” . . .

In October, the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, went on the record to blame Russia—government actors, not, say, cybercriminals who happened to be Russian, “based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts,” and further declaring that they were “intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.” Days later, emails stolen from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta appeared on WikiLeaks.
============
DICK CHENEY: 'No question' Russia meddled in the US election, and it could be 'an act of war'

Mar. 27, 2017, 11:42 AM
Business Insider

In a wide-ranging speech at the Economic Times' Global Business Summit on Monday, former US Vice President Dick Cheney spoke unequivocally about Russia's meddling in the 2016 US presidential election.

Cheney said there were a "rising number of threats" in the world that, beyond national security, "even pose a threat to the globalization movements you're here to talk about today."

Segueing into talking about Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney warned of Russia's aggressive actions.

"I think he has designs on the Baltics. ... We know he wanted Crimea — he took it," said Cheney, who pointed to previous Russian cyber campaigns against Baltic states and Russia's recent moves to nuclearize its European enclave of Kaliningrad.

On the subject of the 2016 election, Cheney said Russia attacked the US in a possible act of war.

"There's no question that there was a very serious effort made by Mr. Putin and his government, his organization, to interfere in major ways with our basic fundamental democratic processes," Cheney said. "In some quarters, that could be considered an act of war."
=================
Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization

By Pamela Brown and Jose Pagliery, CNN

Updated 6:00 AM ET, Fri March 10, 2017

(CNN)Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN. . . . The FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.
. .

What is known:
Last year, a small group of computer scientists obtained internet traffic records from the complex system that serves as the internet's phone book. Access to these records is reserved for highly trusted cybersecurity firms and companies that provide this lookup service.
These signals were captured as they traveled along the internet's Domain Name System (DNS).
These leaked records show that Alfa Bank servers repeatedly looked up the unique internet address of a particular Trump Organization computer server in the United States.
In the computer world, it's the equivalent of looking up someone's phone number -- over and over again. While there isn't necessarily a phone call, it usually indicates an intention to communicate, according to several computer scientists.
What puzzled them was why a Russian bank was repeatedly looking up the contact information for mail1.trump-email.com.
Publicly available internet records show that address, which was registered to the Trump Organization, points to an IP address that lives on an otherwise dull machine operated by a company in the tiny rural town of Lititz, Pennsylvania.
From May 4 until September 23, the Russian bank looked up the address to this Trump corporate server 2,820 times -- more lookups than the Trump server received from any other source.

[Channman 2]

billvon

>Are there any actual 'facts' now to 'prove' Russia, "Hacked" the election?

===========
Did Putin Direct Russian Hacking? And Other Big Questions

Did Moscow influence the U.S. election? Who else has been hacked? Could the CIA be wrong?
Gary Cameron
Reuters

Jan 6, 2017

In a “declassified version of a highly classified assessment” released on Friday January 6, the U.S. intelligence community laid out its judgment that “Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election,” with the specific goal of harming Hillary Clinton’s “electability and potential presidency.” The report went on: “We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.”

Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, said at a hearing on foreign cyberthreats to the United States: “Every American should be alarmed by Russia’s attacks on our nation.” . . .

In October, the Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, went on the record to blame Russia—government actors, not, say, cybercriminals who happened to be Russian, “based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts,” and further declaring that they were “intended to interfere with the U.S. election process.” Days later, emails stolen from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta appeared on WikiLeaks.
============
DICK CHENEY: 'No question' Russia meddled in the US election, and it could be 'an act of war'

Mar. 27, 2017, 11:42 AM
Business Insider

In a wide-ranging speech at the Economic Times' Global Business Summit on Monday, former US Vice President Dick Cheney spoke unequivocally about Russia's meddling in the 2016 US presidential election.

Cheney said there were a "rising number of threats" in the world that, beyond national security, "even pose a threat to the globalization movements you're here to talk about today."

Segueing into talking about Russian President Vladimir Putin, Cheney warned of Russia's aggressive actions.

"I think he has designs on the Baltics. ... We know he wanted Crimea — he took it," said Cheney, who pointed to previous Russian cyber campaigns against Baltic states and Russia's recent moves to nuclearize its European enclave of Kaliningrad.

On the subject of the 2016 election, Cheney said Russia attacked the US in a possible act of war.

"There's no question that there was a very serious effort made by Mr. Putin and his government, his organization, to interfere in major ways with our basic fundamental democratic processes," Cheney said. "In some quarters, that could be considered an act of war."
=================
Sources: FBI investigation continues into 'odd' computer link between Russian bank and Trump Organization

By Pamela Brown and Jose Pagliery, CNN

Updated 6:00 AM ET, Fri March 10, 2017

(CNN)Federal investigators and computer scientists continue to examine whether there was a computer server connection between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank, sources close to the investigation tell CNN. . . . The FBI's investigation remains open, the sources said, and is in the hands of the FBI's counterintelligence team -- the same one looking into Russia's suspected interference in the 2016 election.
. .

What is known:
Last year, a small group of computer scientists obtained internet traffic records from the complex system that serves as the internet's phone book. Access to these records is reserved for highly trusted cybersecurity firms and companies that provide this lookup service.
These signals were captured as they traveled along the internet's Domain Name System (DNS).
These leaked records show that Alfa Bank servers repeatedly looked up the unique internet address of a particular Trump Organization computer server in the United States.
In the computer world, it's the equivalent of looking up someone's phone number -- over and over again. While there isn't necessarily a phone call, it usually indicates an intention to communicate, according to several computer scientists.
What puzzled them was why a Russian bank was repeatedly looking up the contact information for mail1.trump-email.com.
Publicly available internet records show that address, which was registered to the Trump Organization, points to an IP address that lives on an otherwise dull machine operated by a company in the tiny rural town of Lititz, Pennsylvania.
From May 4 until September 23, the Russian bank looked up the address to this Trump corporate server 2,820 times -- more lookups than the Trump server received from any other source.

We will see what comes of this in the future...I'm looking forward to Susan Rice's testimony as she is interviewed by members of the intelligence committee and see if she contradicts statements she made with "PBS NewsHour" last month..."I know nothing about this"..."I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that account today."

How in the Hell did he find out that I was the Gal that directed the unmasking of American Citizens for political purposes...shit do I need to get me a lawyer?? Need to find a pair of shoe that go well with White and Black Strip Paint suit and another pair for Orange.

This is getting damn FUNNY

[DJL 232]

Quote

Edit to add:

Flynn is in more hot water. Failed to disclose payments...

From Russia. Including "RT", which has close ties to Putin.

Go figure.

Does anyone see it as more than a coincidence that these forms came from the White House just after he offered to testify?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

But your posts, from the very beginning, have been pure "I love the Kremlin" themed. You even claimed that the Russian strikes in Syria were against ISIS, when they were going after civilians (and questioned whether or not it was Russian airstrikes that hit the hospitals - who else had planes in the air in that vicinity?)

Look, Russia is the only country apart from Syria that legally have aircraft in the region.

There are several countries doing illegal airstrikes...

Spin it how you want, Just ask Syria, it is their country.

I don't think Russia is all innocent and is clear of corruption, I don't think any country is.

However, right up until Aleppo was in its final days of being liberated, There were reports coming out of western media saying The Russians are killing civilians, a bloodbath it was described as. The white helmets are trying to save thee Syrian people...

Fast forward to the day the rebels retreated from there, the only people giving aid to the civilians were Russian and Syrian troops...

Guess where the white helmets were...? Not to be seen.

what was mentioned in the media after that? NOTHING!

People call RT a Russian Propaganda mouthpiece, but do you by the same rationale call the BBC an English propaganda mouth piece?

How about the national news networks of other socialized countries?

It was just made clear that the only network that is in the limelight these days, that does not do 'pre-interviews', is in fact RT. All of the major networks in western countries will assess what guests have to say, before letting them on. If their view is not withing the scope of the networks angle, then they are not allowed on, that is pure propaganda.

Further more, what you will find if you google ISIS and use the tools to pick a date before September 2015 (when the Russians entered and annihilated them), you will see fancy video productions by them, of beheading and burning people alive... this was 4 years after the 'coalition' of supposedly the world's most powerful military forces had already spent 4 years trying to knock them back.

After September 2015, you show me one fancy video of someone being killed by ISIS, you show me one fancy video of their new delivery of 50 Toyota landcruizers... A delivery the CIA and other international organisations of that ilk were 'unable to detect'... Toyotas that have US made weapons strapped to the back of them...

FFS, how gullible do you have to be.

What you will find though, is surveillance videos from Russia showing the convoys of stolen oil heading over to turkey to be refined... you will find videos of ISIS being annihilated and you will find videos of state department briefings talking about how this western coalition are arming Al Qaeda and Al Nusra under the name of 'Moderate Rebels' to try to overthrow Assad.

What was the war on terror about again, and who were the enemy?

Now they are you ally in Syria, while the enemy next door in Iraq? how the fuck does that make sense?

Just for one minute you imagine if a group of US rebels were shelling in the US, trying to work towards Washington being armed by Russia, Iran and Syria... what would happen.

The military would kill them and in turn would be...

you guessed it, "killing their own civilians".


I don't know what kind of stupid one would have to be to not see through all this, if they spend at least a small amount of time researching it for themselves.

Taking this all into consideration, how can one trust the media either.

So no, I am not a Russian spy, nor I am not a Russian ball licker or Putin Lover, they do some awful stuff to be fair.

All countries are corrupt. Try to get your head around that one.

They are all looking out for themselves. Syria is strategic to Russia's existence.

But when it comes to the middle east, the fuckwits you are trying to support are most definitely in the wrong, are poor at carrying out their objectives and have had no successes there in the past 1.5 decades.

The Russians went in there less than two years ago and have devastated the opposition to the Assad government. Even when this opposition have the backing of how many countries? 10? More?

They are simply better at war than the west. Because they are not 'pretending' to do anything, that is the distinct difference.

So back to the hacking and the lies from your propaganda...

About time some facts came to the table don't you think?

[BartsDaddy 4]

Hell if they wanted me to testify, I would ask for immunity too. And I don't know shit about what they want to know.

It's best to cover your ass even if you don't think it needs it.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[gowlerk 1,929]

Quote

They are simply better at war than the west. Because they are not 'pretending' to do anything, that is the distinct difference.

More ruthless is the actual term.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

More ruthless is the actual term

Nah,not at all. Goin into a war with no intention of winning and bleeding your country into unprecedented debt is ruthless.

War sux, but if you are forced to go there, going in there and getting the job done and then going home is just better.

Like I said, the real difference is that Russia set out to do what they say they are doing. No bullshit.

The 'coalition' are only just trying to destabilise the region and could care less about the people that live there. Even though they use them as a reason to go in the first place.

There is nothing more ruthless than that.

What war has the US entered this century, that they are not still in or have a gimmer of hope of winning?

Lack of capability has nothing to do with this.

[Erroll 49]

Royreader8812

.... could care less about the people that live there......

But do they?

[gowlerk 1,929]

Royreader8812

Quote

More ruthless is the actual term

Nah,not at all. Goin into a war with no intention of winning and bleeding your country into unprecedented debt is ruthless.

War sux, but if you are forced to go there, going in there and getting the job done and then going home is just better.

Like I said, the real difference is that Russia set out to do what they say they are doing. No bullshit.

The 'coalition' are only just trying to destabilise the region and could care less about the people that live there. Even though they use them as a reason to go in the first place.

There is nothing more ruthless than that.

What war has the US entered this century, that they are not still in or have a gimmer of hope of winning?

Lack of capability has nothing to do with this.

Yaa... cuz Putin cares. Right. You can sell that idea to no one. Try as hard as you might, the sanctions against Russia are not only staying, they are going to increase. Until Ukraine is free of the Soviet style oppression it's under.

The west is not going to buckle. Your government mistakes freedom for weakness. What looks like chaos to people who think like you is actually strength. The only reason Russia has any influence in the world at all is from it's remnant strength from what followed the Great Patriotic War. Just like the USSR crumbled, Russia will falter as well.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Royreader8812 0]

Ukraine is under the Rule of a regime that was put there with the assistance of the Obama administration. [sarcasm]Janet Nuland's cookies were the magic weapon in the violent coup [/sarcasm].

It is plainly obvious that Crimea was a objective for NATO and Russia outsmarted the process without having to use one single bullet.

Your leaders are still furious to this day.

Europe is dependent on Russia for survival at present, less and less so but that is the truth. Eastern Europe would freeze to death in winter without their gas.

Russia was weakened by sanctions from the west. Russia which is not my country by the way, are diversifying their economy and in turn looking internally to supply their needs rather than depending on oil and gas exports. This process takes time. But so does Eastern Europe's ability to heat themselves in winter.

For every European that is no longer using Russian oil and gas however, there are 10 Chinese being born.

Time will tell what happens there, but China and Russia are in a good partnership with each other. One has lots of money and lots of people, the other has lots of space and lots of resources... these things complement each other well and their cooperation will lead to a strong bond that your leaders are quite worried about.

The dogma that Russia has whittled away to nothing and is not a force to be reckoned with anymore, was destroyed by their superior results against ISIS. But in reality you are right, they are not as strong as the other countries supposedly fighting ISIS. The other countries are actually feeding ISIS and assisting them in their open plan to topple Assad. But because they lied about it, Russia made them look weak... this was very smart.

Like this new chemical weapon bullshit you 'are about to be' getting all riled up about. Just another bullshit story to make the people defending themselves look like the bad guys.

It always seems so convenient (for the likes of you) that Assad and/or Russia would use chemical weapons against their own people or indiscriminately start bombing schools and hospitals, when the support for western intervention is at a low.

Nothing like a few burning kids to get the population behind them again, eh.

Ukraine and Syria are both wars that are purely the result of geopolitical objectives of those that are using the United States and her allies as pawns.

These people don't care about you, they don't care about your country and they will kill you if it means they will achieve their goals.

Fortunately for you and me, they needs us alive to buy houses and stuff our faces with their (clients') products, so they can continue rule quietly.

Be careful who you support.

I don't necessarily support Russia or any country in this mess. But I surely can see the forest through all those trees.

You just need to look further than the headlines. All the information is hidden in the text.

[gowlerk 1,929]

Quote

Europe is dependent on Russia for survival at present, less and less so but that is the truth. Eastern Europe would freeze to death in winter without their gas.

Gazprom does not sell gas to benefit western Europe. It sells gas to pay Russian kleptocrats.

Personally, I believe that Assad continuing to rule Syria as much as he can is in the best interests of both Russia and the west. So we are roughly in agreement on that. Western leaders who say otherwise are being hypocritical for political reasons.

Russia's aggressive moves to keep as much control over Ukraine as possible teach the west one thing. Namely that the west needs to keep a wary eye on Russia, and use the lever it has in with the goal of containment.

Russia is the most corrupt of the industrialized powers. Even more than China. If and when it moves to an being a more open democracy with real rule of law, it will become stronger. But history teaches that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

But there is one good thing about the Russian leadership. It is very pragmatic, and predictable. The bad part is the utter ruthlessness they need to use to keep a grip on what they have.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Royreader8812 0]

Quote

Russia is the most corrupt of the industrialized powers. Even more than China. If and when it moves to an being a more open democracy with real rule of law, it will become stronger. But history teaches that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

Surely you do not discredit the good old USA out of the #1 status?

Or does corruption not exist in the USA?

When corruption is in the realms of trillions, that makes Russia's Billions look like chump change, no?

I am not suggesting Russia is not corrupt, you can still pay off cops and and essentially get away with murder there, if youu are in the know.

But in the USA it is at a much higher level and dealing with much larger figures.

China is definitely up there as well.

They are learning the hard way about industrialization. This is why they need Russia so badly. Both countries are relatively new to the process of capitalism. So they actually have an excuse.

[gowlerk 1,929]

Royreader8812

Quote

Russia is the most corrupt of the industrialized powers. Even more than China. If and when it moves to an being a more open democracy with real rule of law, it will become stronger. But history teaches that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

Surely you do not discredit the good old USA out of the #1 status?

Or does corruption not exist in the USA?

When corruption is in the realms of trillions, that makes Russia's Billions look like chump change, no?

I am not suggesting Russia is not corrupt, you can still pay off cops and and essentially get away with murder there, if youu are in the know.

But in the USA it is at a much higher level and dealing with much larger figures.

China is definitely up there as well.

They are learning the hard way about industrialization. This is why they need Russia so badly. Both countries are relatively new to the process of capitalism. So they actually have an excuse.

Dude, the USA is the safest place to invest in the world. Why? Rule of law. It's for from perfect, corruption is everywhere as it is human nature. No one in their right mind invests in Russia, unless they have a deal with the kleptocrats. Even then they risk losing all their money and maybe their life as well.

Give your head a shake. There is no comparison. That's why the Americans are fat, they eat well. The Russians are thin, because they are starving. Russians are among the toughest people in the world. They have to be to survive the Russian system. It's been that way for centuries.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Royreader8812 0]

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That's why the Americans are fat, they eat well. The Russians are thin, because they are starving.

LOL, I believe you will find that Americans are fat and relatively unhealthy , and Russians are generally in shape and healthy because of the quality of food.

But we are digressing here.

Right now the whole Russia thing seems to be taking a side step because the Obama administration was caught using intelligence services to surveil their political opponents..

Watergate was a break in, this is using the intelligence services.

Should be the headline of the year.... But but... the Russians...