Gun VIOLENCE control

[kallend 1,635]

How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

Of course you are the self appointed arbiter of what reasonable can be

Right?

But
To give you a chance
What do you propose?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,635]

rushmc

***
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

Of course you are the self appointed arbiter of what reasonable can be

Right?

But
To give you a chance
What do you propose?

So you don't think controlling gun violence is a reasonable objective, then.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

******
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

Of course you are the self appointed arbiter of what reasonable can be

Right?

But
To give you a chance
What do you propose?

So you don't think controlling gun violence is a reasonable objective, then.

Yes. Merry Christmas to you too

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jgoose71 0]

kallend

How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[OWB 8]

jgoose71

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

+10. Or as the idiots over on that bicycle forum say, "LIKE!"

Don't worry about nuthin' cause nothin's gonna be okay.

[wmw999 2,127]

And why, then, not just call it "human nature control," so that we can move laziness and unplanned parenthood into the same box and make it even more unapproachable big?

If the idea is to reduce violence, one has to start somewhere. Any ideas, or is it better to just keep shooting when it appears against you?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rhaig 0]

I typically discuss this in terms of "violent crime" as defined by the FBI crime reports.

That's what the CDC published report from a couple of years ago discussed as well.

--
Rob

[rehmwa 2]

jgoose71

***
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

^ This - it then focuses on the root of the issue, not the sidetrack. (that said, I like what Kallend is appearing to try to do here. It's constructive)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,635]

jgoose71

***
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

Well, over 70% of murders are committed with guns, so focussing on that one issue will be far easier than diluting any effort with dozens of other violence issues.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jgoose71 0]

wmw999

And why, then, not just call it "human nature control," so that we can move laziness and unplanned parenthood into the same box and make it even more unapproachable big?

If the idea is to reduce violence, one has to start somewhere. Any ideas, or is it better to just keep shooting when it appears against you?

Wendy P.

Hi Wendy!

To an extent, what is needed IS human nature control. The solution has been mentioned before, but we can mention it again...

When violent criminals get caught doing something, they need to face the consequences of their actions. Anyone who has ever been a parent will tell you how to adjust behavior.

Criminals are allowed to plea down there charges, turn states evidence, or even just recently the new thing is just to let them back out onto the streets because of their skin color. Bad behavior is bad behavior. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Our justice/ prison system (yes, you have to combine them both in this case) isn't a deterrent any more. We need more deterrents.

If the criminal justice system cannot deter criminal behavior, then yes, more bullets might be in order. In the grand scheme of things, for criminals the risk/ reward assessment for criminals weighs heavily in the "reward" category. I hate to say it, but that is the result of a population that just rolls over for criminal behavior while waiting for that "someone else" they have outsourced their safety to arrives because self protection just isn't their job.

If you want to control "bad behavior" of any sort, you have to make the juice not worth the squeeze. How can that happen when we even have prosecutors going after people who protect them selves? Isn't self protection supposed to be a right?

Or, maybe option be where we put enough cops on the street where anyone who thinks of committing a crime gets stopped? What would that society look like?

I'm just of the impression that maybe, is we as a society put a little skin into the game and took on a little responsibility for the safety of our selves and our community it could really do wonders. A big "Violence is not allowed here and the residence of this community will stand up to reject it" sign if you will.

Now mind you, I'm not advocating vigilantly justice. There was a time when cops used to get out of there car and new the people in the neighborhood. Sheriffs even used to have and train posses!!! In today's day and age I don't think that will fly with all the personal injury lawyers, but law enforcement could teach what is legal and what is not for self defense and show high risk communities different options for self defense (doesn't alway have to be a gun, but the second amendment is supposed to guarantee the option). Not just be a victim.

Either way, make it known that the juice, most certainly will not be worth the squeeze.

That's how I would implement "Violence Control" anyway....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

kallend

******
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

Well, over 70% of murders are committed with guns, so focussing on that one issue will be far easier than diluting any effort with dozens of other violence issues.

You know you can't paint with a broad brush like that. The gun is just an inanimate object. If you take it away, you still have the original issue to deal with, no matter what. It's like putting a bandage on an infection. Something is still festering underneath.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[turtlespeed 212]

kallend

******
How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

The term is getting a little warmer. Why not just "Violence Control?"

Guns have nothing to do with it. I've had many guns in my day and none of them were ever violent. Also would add, do you think that by taking the gun out of the bad guys hands that he would all of the sudden stop being violent?

Yes, I like "Violence Control."

Well, over 70% of murders are committed with guns, so focussing on that one issue will be far easier than diluting any effort with dozens of other violence issues.

Then let's address everything individually.

Rape control
Murder control
Mugging control
General violence control

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rhaig 0]

to pick a nit, by the 2014 UCR crime stats (table 20) I see 11961 murders with 8124 by firearm. Just about 68%. But given that even, you're only concentrating on murders here?

You're not worried about violent crime in general in this discussion? Just trying to set the goal posts is all.

--
Rob

[wmw999 2,127]

I am a parent, of a polite, nice, self-supporting 32-year-old. As with many humans, a one-size-fits-all approach didn't work with him.
Natural consequences were best, but sometimes too life-threatening. Education and/or parent-enforced avoidance were next, with education taking the place of avoidance as he matured.
Imposed consequences were the least effective, because it's easiest both to detect their arbitrary nature and evade them.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

kallend

How about a new phrase that reasonable people, regardless of their thoughts on gun ownership, can agree on?

It kind of depends on how "Gun Violence" is defined, doesn't it?

The "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" group had a list of names of people "killed by gun violence" that they read out at stops on their "No More Names" bus tour.

Sounds reasonable, doesn't it?
A group against "illegal guns" looking to stop "Gun Violence".

Except that their list of names of people killed by "Gun Violence" included Tamerlan Tsarnayev and Christopher Dorner.

In fact, one in twelve were criminal suspects.

So it's easy to come up with a catchy phrase. Not so easy to come up with actual solutions.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jgoose71 0]

wmw999

I am a parent, of a polite, nice, self-supporting 32-year-old. As with many humans, a one-size-fits-all approach didn't work with him.
Natural consequences were best, but sometimes too life-threatening. Education and/or parent-enforced avoidance were next, with education taking the place of avoidance as he matured.
Imposed consequences were the least effective, because it's easiest both to detect their arbitrary nature and evade them.

Wendy P.

As I pointed out earlier, our "Imposed Consequences" are not working out either.

With my kids they would always tell me "I promise nothing bad will happen" when I would tell them no. They would argue on and then (depending on the circumstances) I would go get mom and then tell them OK. Then we would sit down, watch the tom-foolery, laugh at them, and then tell them "I bet you won't try that again....."

As they got older, when I would tell them "OK, let me get mom first so we can watch" they would rethink there actions.....

I hate to say this, but trying to mug an armed "victim" can have a lot of the same effect. Eventually the message will get out.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[cvfd1399 0]

Let's stare at the elephant in the room and recognize that 13% of the population is doing 52% of the murders. Figure out why and apply the majority of the resources to making that number go down.

[brenthutch 384]

http://youtu.be/Xfq6hyE7BNQ

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

If the idea is to reduce violence, one has to start somewhere. Any ideas, or is it better to just keep shooting when it appears against you?

Wendy P.

Wendy
The idea is to reduce violence for many
For others, it is just about guns
In any event

You nailed it here as framing the topic is a/the tactic.
The buzz phrase that is not to be lost

Gun violence...... wow, seems like there is only on "reasonable" (another favorite word used in a tactic) answer huh

Same tactic in another two words

Climate change!

That is all kallend is doing here
Trying to find a new buzz phrase that will somehow elevate the topic again and give his arguments (what ever the hell they are because he will not post them) more teeth

He is failing as it has seemed to work against him here

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[cvfd1399 0]

SMH.....

[normiss 622]

That can get you banned you know.

[cvfd1399 0]

Really? Pls show me that rule and I will gladly edit it.

[wmw999 2,127]

How exactly do you think the issue of "13% causing 52%" should be addressed? Maybe we should only patrol some minority neighborhoods? Or maybe just double down on them?

What about rich minorities -- do they get the same scrutiny?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[cvfd1399 0]

There has to be a cause correct?

Like I said before there is a reason that 13% of a population subgroup is doing something 52% more than the rest. Find the issue and focus on finding ways to change it, fund it, evaluate the effort, and implement ways to make sure it does not go back.

It could be education, economic, family, social, culture, etc.