Wounded Warriors.......

[baronn 111]

I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

[turtlespeed 212]

baronn

I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

On the way to speakers corner, I'll just say that the VA is not nearly as bad as it is made out to be.

That said, if you don't WANT to contribute, and don't think the vets are worth it, then don't.

That's one of the beautiful things about this country, they were injured, or killed so that you have the choice to support them . . . or not.

No one is making you give your money. If you don't feel it is a just cause, then abstain from contributing.

I know of several skydivers that by fault or no fault of their own, are seriously injured and people hold benefits for them to help.

No one makes me attend. I go if I want. I give if I can. I don't if I can't or simply don't want to.

Why does this bother you so much?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Amazon 7]

baronn

I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

there are better places to help Veterans...

The problem with the wounded Warrior project is the amount of money donated that actually makes it to the veterans. The ones running it are doing very well.. ND they spend an inordinate amount of money suing other veterans groups for daring to help wounded veterans.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/04/wounded-warrior-charity-unleashes-hell-on-other-veteran-groups.html

[baronn 111]

As I suspected. The only part of my post that you see is an assumption that I choose not to contribute. Just curious, as to how you came to that conclusion? I never mentioned that. What my point is (or attempt at) is who should be doing the majority of it here. I feel that these folks need all the assistance they need. Rather than address the fact that it shouldn't have happened at all, you choose to accuse me of not wanting them to get the help they need. This is an enabling attitude. By failing to understand who is really responsible for this, you allow the continuation of our so-called leaders to continue to send people that deserve better into situations they should never be in. Perhaps instead of blindly making an incorrect assumption here, you might want to get a few facts straight 1st.

[baronn 111]

If the VA is doing such a stellar job of meeting all the vets needs, why does Wounded Warriors even need to exist?
Yeah, it bothers me when folks that are asked to sacrifice so much are then neglected. I think it's unfair and another example of how far away we as a country and as human beings have gotten. Rather than a company like Halliburton contribute some of the money they made on this continuing conflict to solve this issue, you and I are being asked to do so. Maybe it's just me but, that sits sideways with me.......

[Niki1 1]

baronn

If the VA is doing such a stellar job of meeting all the vets needs, why does Wounded Warriors even need to exist?
Yeah, it bothers me when folks that are asked to sacrifice so much are then neglected. I think it's unfair and another example of how far away we as a country and as human beings have gotten. Rather than a company like Halliburton contribute some of the money they made on this continuing conflict to solve this issue, you and I are being asked to do so. Maybe it's just me but, that sits sideways with me.......

Yeah, what you said! I've had that thought for a long time. And let's not confuse support for the troops as support for the war. Or opposition to the war as opposition to the troops.

Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done.
Louis D Brandeis

Where are we going and why are we in this basket?

[Phil1111 915]

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12842#.VnDFL792Hf0

"“They do try to bully smaller organizations like ourselves... They get really territorial about fundraising,” said the president of one charity with the name “wounded warrior” in their title.

He asked to remain anonymous out of fear that the Wounded Warrior Project would launch legal action against his group if he spoke out. His group hasn’t been sued, but he said individuals from the WWP had pressured him to change their name. “They’re so huge. We don’t have the staying power if they come after us—you just can’t fight them.”

The Wounded Warrior Project’s latest target is the Keystone Wounded Warriors, a small, all-volunteer charity based in Pennsylvania.

How small? Keystone Wounded Warriors had a total annual revenue of just over $200,000 as recently as 2013. That’s less than the $375,000 that Wounded Warrior Project Executive Director Steven Nardizzi was personally paid in 2013.

The Keystone group was forced to spend more than two years and some $72,000 in legal fees to defend itself from the legal actions of the Wounded Warrior Project, which brings in annual revenues of close to $235 million, according to the outfit’s most recent tax forms.

“That’s money that we could have used to pick up some homes in foreclosure, remodel them, and give them back to warriors. We spent that money on defending ourselves instead,” said Keystone Wounded Warriors Executive Director Paul Spurgin, a Marine Corps Vietnam War veteran."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/04/wounded-warrior-charity-unleashes-hell-on-other-veteran-groups.html

[RonD1120 58]

The WWP started off as a good charity. They have lost favor with some of the VVA members including me.

The point you made about the VA reneging on their promises is true in some cases, but not all. It is a system and sometimes requires a good Veterans Service Officer to navigate it.

The Disabled American Veterans is a long time veteran charity in good standing.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

The DAV is mostly a lobbying organization. Not to say that isn't important, but they don't do an awful lot of direct help to individual veterans. They do partner with other groups, but direct support isn't their primary focus.

Fisher House is a good charity. They provide housing near the DoD hospital for wounded soldiers' families while the soldier recovers. Having family close by can be one of the most important things in the early recovery process.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 58]

DanG

The DAV is mostly a lobbying organization. Not to say that isn't important, but they don't do an awful lot of direct help to individual veterans. They do partner with other groups, but direct support isn't their primary focus.

Fisher House is a good charity. They provide housing near the DoD hospital for wounded soldiers' families while the soldier recovers. Having family close by can be one of the most important things in the early recovery process.

DAV in the Tampa Bay area used to provide excellent guidance through their Veterans Service Officers when seeking VA benefits. It has been several years since I've had any direct contact with them.

Fisher House definitely an excellent charity.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

The following is a direct copy and paste from an email received from the VVATalklist. Their lawsuits against other smaller veteran organizations is despicable.

Quote

Wounded Warriors Execs Make Out Like Bandits, Actual Wounded Warriors? Not So Much…
dcclothesline.com" href="http://%3ca%20href=%22http/www.donotlink.com/hiep%22%3Edcclothesline.com%3C/a%3E" target="_blank">DC Clothesline: In the first version of this article, I used the 2012-2013 Wounded Warrior Project 990 Tax Forms. This updated version is using the 2013-2014 Wounded Warrior Project 990 Tax Forms. (Thank you, David Isakson, for all of your assistance) I had made some errors in my original reporting; I am not a forensic accountant and had misread some of the figures or gotten the figures from the wrong columns. I will not be making those mistakes again. The 2012-2013 and the 2013-2014 tax forms are hyperlinked, so feel free to peruse the documents for yourselves. We should not be surprised to find out that yet another ‘charity’ claiming to ‘help’ Veterans is more interested in the salaries of their executives and funding the vicious cycle of advertisement…raise funds…spend it on advertisement…raise funds…ad nauseum. But just the raw figures from their own reporting:
FOR THE YEAR 2012-1013
REVENUE: $234,682,943.00
EXPENSES: $158,073,943.00
TOTAL PROFITS:
$ 76,609,000.00
FOR THE YEAR 2013-2014
REVENUE: $342,066,114.00
EXPENSES: $248,005,493.00
TOTAL PROFITS: $ 94,060,675.00
TOTAL AMOUNT GOING TO ORGANIZATIONS IN 2013: $16,849,420.00
TOTAL AMOUNT GOING TO ORGANIZATIONS IN 2014: $41,305,308.00
TOTAL AMOUNT GOING TO INDIVIDUAL VETERANS IN 2013: $853,365.00
TOTAL AMOUNT GOING TO INDIVIDUAL VETERANS IN 2014: $804,393.00
Now, how about some brass tacks about what just their top three executives make per year in salaries alone, not including bonuses, retirement, and insurance.
STEVEN NARDIZZI EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR $375,000.00 in 2013
STEVEN NARDIZZI CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER $473,015.00 in 2014
ALBION GIORDANO DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR $337,500.00 in 2013
ALBION GIORDANO CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER $369,030.00 in 2014
JEREMY CHWAT CHIEF PROGRAM OFFICER $218,267.00 in 2013
JEREMY CHWAT CHIEF PROGRAM OFFICER $262,750.00 in 2014
These are STRICTLY the amounts and descriptions from their own tax forms. This does not even begin to cover their beautiful, modern building or the seven lawsuits that they have launched against much smaller, higher rated Veterans non-profit groups, who either used the words ‘wounded warrior’ somewhere in their name or used a silhouette of soldiers in their logos.
***But of the more than 56,000 veterans the group counts as “alumni,” meaning that they have been registered with the organization, many don’t directly engage with WWP. Less than two-thirds (62 percent) of alumni participated in at least one WWP activity or service in the past year, according to a survey of alumni the group shared with the Beast. But according to their internal database, 78.9 percent of alumni have been involved with “engagements and interactions” with WWP this year.
The best advice I can give you is to do your own research. Find small charities that are well-ranked by Charity Navigator or Charity Watch. Stick with local charities with which you have developed an affiliation personally. One of the highest ranked and most respected Veterans charity is The Fisher House.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rehmwa 2]

Someone wants to ask for help or voluntary donations for a charitable cause......whether I agree or not, or contribute or not, no matter what the cause, I'm ok with them asking.

If they were proposing legislation to force me to pay - whether I agree or not, would have contributed otherwise or not, no matter what the cause, that's a different story

so, no, the request is not wrong


if you want a new topic (actually an old worn out topic) to discuss why someone else (the countries protected, the corporations that might have profited, etc etc etc) should be legally or ethically responsible for the costs, that's a good topic, but not related to others having a choice whether or not to contribute to any cause on a voluntary basis


Edit: personally? If I wanted to help a wounded warrior, I'd like go volunteer and find one locally and help them directly. I find it more genuine than mailing off a check and patting myself on the back. Just think if everyone that talked about this stuff just went and did it directly instead of using a middle man.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

Edit: personally? If I wanted to help a wounded warrior, I'd like go volunteer and find one locally and help them directly. I find it more genuine than mailing off a check and patting myself on the back. Just think if everyone that talked about this stuff just went and did it directly instead of using a middle man.

Sure, but then you get the same problem as schools. Vet's who live in nice places get loads of help, vet's who live in poor neighbourhoods get jack.

If your goal is to help people instead of feeling good about helping one person then organisations who can spread resources over wider areas need to be funded, and that means writing a cheque.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 212]

jakee

Quote

Edit: personally? If I wanted to help a wounded warrior, I'd like go volunteer and find one locally and help them directly. I find it more genuine than mailing off a check and patting myself on the back. Just think if everyone that talked about this stuff just went and did it directly instead of using a middle man.

Sure, but then you get the same problem as schools. Vet's who live in nice places get loads of help, vet's who live in poor neighbourhoods get jack.

If your goal is to help people instead of feeling good about helping one person then organisations who can spread resources over wider areas need to be funded, and that means writing a cheque.

We don't have cheques here. Maybe that's the problem.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rehmwa 2]

jakee

If your goal is to help people instead of feeling good about helping one person then organisations who can spread resources over wider areas need to be funded, and that means writing a cheque.

I'm just one guy, I'm good with it.

If just 10,000 guys decided to each help one person, then we'd help 10,000 persons.

Instead of 10,000 people complaining that 'someone' (except them) 'should fix this problem'

Still, writing a cheque is still better than doing nothing.
Doing nothing is still better than just bitching about it like a social warrior and hoping someone else does it.


I think spelling it "cheque" is actually pretty cool and much closer to "cheese" than the other version. Since cheese is also good, then it's makes it even more special.


My Heirarchy of sincerity:

1 - Going out and helping someone face to face
2 - writing a check and shutting up
3 - writing a check and talking about it
4 - doing nothing
5 - "raising awareness" on a social site and nothing else
6 - forcing government to force others to do it for you
7 - stealing from the blind guy's cup

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[RMK 3]

quote: they sue other charities who either use the words ‘wounded warrior’ or used a silhouette of soldiers in their logos.

That's shameful. How does Wounded Warriors believe that they own the silhouette of soldiers? It's not like they are competing for profit; the idea is to give money to the same causes.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

If just 10,000 guys decided to help one person, then we'd help 10,000 persons.

And if gold coins fell from the sky we wouldn't need social security*. But if your goal is really helping pople then you need to deal in reality instead of idealism.

Quote

If just 10,000 guys decided to help one person, then we'd help 10,000 persons.

I'm not really sure what that has to do with this thread, or why it's bringing out your snarky side.


* Until the price of gold collapses, obviously, but let's not get bogged down in the details.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

first quote - I revised to match my intent "each decided to help", surprised I have to spell that one out. my bad


I don't see how finding someone in need and helping them face to face is some sort of idealism. Seems to be more reality than sending a cheque off in the mail and hoping something tangible really happens with it. If you help someone they get helped. If you do it indirectly it might....or it might not help. We'll have to disagree on what you consider reality. I don't much care, if I go help someone directly, and you send a check to some faceless organization, the net effect is still better than all talk/no action social warriors accomplish in a month of Facebook rants.


as for your tangent - if gold coins fell from the sky, I think we'd all need pretty good hats. (other than this,,, My intent wasn't snarky, sorry you took it that way. My intent at the end was just humor, which I completely failed at as normal...no surprises there)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

RMK

quote: they sue other charities who either use the words ‘wounded warrior’ or used a silhouette of soldiers in their logos.

That's shameful. How does Wounded Warriors believe that they own the silhouette of soldiers? It's not like they are competing for profit; the idea is to give money to the same causes.

2 scenarios:

1 - the group hijacking the logo intends to do similar charity work. Don't sue, or join forces

2 - the group hijacking the logo intends to purposely get people to donate to them instead of WW as a scam to steal that money and not help anyone. - sue the heck out of them

I guess it's shameful depending on the intent of the hijackers...

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

I don't see how finding someone in need and helping them face to face is some sort of idealism.

No, it's great. It's just not a complete solution, which you seemed to suggest it was when you said this; Just think if everyone that talked about this stuff just went and did it directly instead of using a middle man.

My point is that if everyone who helped did it directly with someone local to them then there would be massive inequalities in the charitable aid being received by those vets. Which I already made pretty clear.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

I understand your point.


I do believe, though, that if this stuff was direct and personal, a cultural change would be faster, and more natural, and more extensive

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Bolas 5]

rehmwa

if you want a new topic (actually an old worn out topic) to discuss why someone else (the countries protected, the corporations that might have profited, etc etc etc) should be legally or ethically responsible for the costs,

+1

If we did this, most of the military could be self funded.

Closer to the original topic though:
Charities that let those off the hook that have the ability to pay tend to make things worse as the more they do, the less the other party feels they have to. Noble intentions to help those that fall through the cracks of a system, but without reform those cracks only seem to get wider and deeper.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Elisha 1]

baronn

I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

I assume what you're really getting at is that Halliburton and others should be paying, big conspiracy for the war(s), blah blah blah.

I'm not saying that it's NOT one big conspiracy about oil, Halliburton (and others) are taking advantage,etc, but your problem is that you need to prove this conspiracy such that the government is in the wrong, needs to recompense those wronged, and force Halliburton etc to "pay up"/fix things. Well, yeah....don't we all. And we can all just make world peace happen too. Sounds great, won't happen.

But if you want to help veterans, then go help veterans or give money to (legit) organizations who do. Just don't ask for some special tax increase or whatever to fix the VA/government. They need to fix their own awful waste and inefficiencies.

[turtlespeed 212]

Elisha

***I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

I assume what you're really getting at is that Halliburton and others should be paying, big conspiracy for the war(s), blah blah blah.

I'm not saying that it's NOT one big conspiracy about oil, Halliburton (and others) are taking advantage,etc, but your problem is that you need to prove this conspiracy such that the government is in the wrong, needs to recompense those wronged, and force Halliburton etc to "pay up"/fix things. Well, yeah....don't we all. And we can all just make world peace happen too. Sounds great, won't happen.

But if you want to help veterans, then go help veterans or give money to (legit) organizations who do. Just don't ask for some special tax increase or whatever to fix the VA/government. They need to fix their own awful waste and inefficiencies.

No need for proof, feelings is all we ever need.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jclalor 12]

baronn

I fully expect that this will get mixed responses. I'm hoping the message I'm trying to convey will be clear. I find it interesting when a certain country singer comes on the tube (singing "Pray for Peace...") asking for contributions to this organization. There's no doubt that these people have suffered incredible injuries and their lives are changed forever and can use all the help they need. Where I have a problem is, who should be contributing. I (like many) believe that America and the world were totally misled on why we even were in these places and allowing these folks to be put in harm's way. Halliburton and many other large corporations were the real winners in that war, The VA is a joke and the minute the promise of the benefits they were promised are needed, they disappear. Just incomprehensible IMO. Now this guy comes out begging for the American public is to pick up the tab. Am I the only 1 that feels this is wrong?

This country should never send its men and women into war unless it's willing to pay the full price. While the mission of Wounded Warriors is noble, it's pathetic that disabled veterans are reduced to having to rely on donations, for what the Government should already be funding.