SkyDekker 1,122 #276 October 3, 2015 headoverheels***QuoteYet violent crime and gun crime continues to decrease And is still orders of magnitude higher than other 1st world countries. True, I agree. A bit hyperbolic, as that would mean at least 100x. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #277 October 3, 2015 I don't get it. So, former US Army dude is even too crippled to keep a private msg to himself. Like not even being man enough. I'd shoot myself if I were disabled as he his mentally. Of course, I don't have a gun. Maybe he has. This poster is not a man. Even a bitch has more self-respect. SkyDekkerShut up mpohl.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #278 October 3, 2015 jbscout2002 Religion is way more of an epidemic of violence than guns. Ironically, that seems to have been the thinking of the Roseburg shooter. Or at least an epidemic. edit:typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #279 October 3, 2015 mpohlI don't get it. So, former US Army dude is even too crippled to keep a private msg to himself. Like not even being man enough. I'd shoot myself if I were disabled as he his mentally. Of course, I don't have gun. Maybe he has. This poster is not a man. Even a bitch has more self-respect. ***Shut up mpohl.... Just go away....you add absolutely nothing to this forum and this place would be significantly better without you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #280 October 3, 2015 I am a gun owner. I'd be all over something to the effect that fingerprint/biometric locks on guns, particularly pistols, be the default. Just as childproof caps are the default on medicines. You have to request something different. It won't fix everything, and it might hurt a (likely very small) number who can't figure out how to get their guns to work now. Just as a very small number of people are hurt by not being able to work childproof caps. It's a start. Of course right now the NRA fights anyone tooth and nail who even wants to offer the choice. But eventually, a preponderance of guns would have some sort of trigger lock or biometric lock on them, making them more of a pain in the ass for criminals. And at least some criminals are too lazy and stupid to get real jobs; they might just figure "better luck next time"'and not use a locked gun in a crime Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #281 October 3, 2015 Enlighten me dude. I go away and firearm deaths in the US will come down 20%? I go away and this thread will turn into an intellectual discourse yielding workable solutions? 2003-2014: Terrorism, US: 36 dead. Firearms, US: 316,000+. PLease go into details. SkyDekker***I don't get it. So, former US Army dude is even too crippled to keep a private msg to himself. Like not even being man enough. I'd shoot myself if I were disabled as he his mentally. Of course, I don't have gun. Maybe he has. This poster is not a man. Even a bitch has more self-respect. ***Shut up mpohl.... Just go away....you add absolutely nothing to this forum and this place would be significantly better without you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #282 October 3, 2015 SkyDekkerQuoteI do not really care to hear your logic in an answer to that question by the way. I know, changing an opinion is a major sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs! Why is it that first world countries with strict gun laws have far less homocides with guns? Demographics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #283 October 3, 2015 The gun lobby's stance on smart gun technology makes it pretty clear that they have absolutely zero interest in reducing gun crime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #284 October 3, 2015 winsor***QuoteI do not really care to hear your logic in an answer to that question by the way. I know, changing an opinion is a major sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs! Why is it that first world countries with strict gun laws have far less homocides with guns? Demographics. Can you explain? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #285 October 3, 2015 There is an excellent, short, time-line video on NYT. Showing how even our President gets frustrated, angry, exasperated. Imagine having to go in front of the cameras basically every week. And yes. I think Obama is more intelligent than the average SC poster. http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000003764593/obamas-responses-to-mass-shootings.html?playlistId=1194811622182&module=tv-carousel&action=click&pgType=Multimedia&contentPlacement=0 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #286 October 3, 2015 SkyDekker the positive effects of a very strict gun control would take decades, if not generations. The negative effects would take just weeks or months. Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #287 October 3, 2015 jbscout2002I don't care. I think Germans are overly sensitive. My grandfather was a German born American immigrant and he was a dick too. I have known Germans of all stripes in the time I lived there. The spectrum of personalities is as broad as that of any nationality. Be advised that Saxons are not interchangeable with Bavarians or Prussians, and there was a HUGE difference between East and West Germans back then (I suppose that has morphed in the interim). Bonn and Berlin are not interchangeable, either socially or politically. Think of it as being as different as Bangor Maine vs. Biloxi Mississippi. If a U.S. citizen is being a schmuck, that is not reflective of all denizens of the U.S. of A. Hopefully. As an aside, some of the finest, most honorable soldiers I have ever met were German. Back to the issue at hand, to compare equally armed societies, the reason Switzerland does not have an equal level of insane violence as does the U.S. has little to do with the capacity for violence. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #288 October 3, 2015 SkyDekker******QuoteI do not really care to hear your logic in an answer to that question by the way. I know, changing an opinion is a major sign of weakness and should be avoided at all costs! Why is it that first world countries with strict gun laws have far less homocides with guns? Demographics. Can you explain? Yes, I can - though I will steer clear of specifics. As a friend of mine, who owned a liquor store, pointed out, 90% of his sales went to 10% of his customers. The most heavily armed people I know are the least likely to engage in violence. Others, if they have a cudgel, are going to hit someone with it. Like 'no child left behind' and other well-intentioned efforts, the propensity to regulate on the basis of the lowest common denominator is doomed. Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mpohl 1 #289 October 3, 2015 Having lived East to West for over 25 yrs+. The "schmucks" live on the East Coast. Up and down. And in-between. Once you get to the Rockies, it gets better. I love it out West. Pacific NW, up and down the coast. N. Ca., OR, WA. Anything west of I5. :) P.S.: As we used to say when I was attending grad school: "There is no intelligent life East of I5." winsor If a U.S. citizen is being a schmuck, that is not reflective of all denizens of the U.S. of A. Hopefully. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #290 October 3, 2015 christelsabine Jesus Christ! Am I the only one who noticed that your posts more and more sound like you're the PR manager of NRA? Wonder why you guy did not enter political stage - with all the explanations/solutions you offer here .... I am well aware what your reply will be. Pffff .... Who do you think the NRA is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #291 October 3, 2015 I asked you this earlier. But you didn't answer. Which laws and how."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #292 October 3, 2015 kallend******QuoteCan you offer one single control measure that could effectively prevent anything from happening? No, nor is that a realistic expectation. Generally you would look for ways to reduce, not prevent gun crime. This one I agree with. I just don't think the answer can be found on the far left or far right. My position is that in choosing a side I'm going to protect gun rights because I don't think that stripping them away will solve anything. There are an estimated 200 million guns in America owned by an estimated 60-65 million people. Personally, I think the real number is twice that much. If you ban all guns in America, completely disarm the country, and make everything illegal, there are still 200 million guns out there. Most people will not comply, so those guns will be stashed here and there, and steadily people will get caught with them and the prisons will become inundated with otherwise good law abiding people who became a nonviolent criminal over night because they disagreed with a law that violated their constitution. Even if I played along, my approximately $25k collection of firearms becomes illegal and I just hand it over to be melted down without compensation? This is a strawman. No-one is seriously suggesting a total gun ban. There is a lot of middle ground between the totally ineffective system we currently have that fails to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them (convicted felons, the mentally disturbed), and a total ban. Canada and Australia... have not banned guns, but they do a far better job of preventing gun crime than we do. The USA has the worst record of gun murders of any first world nation. And that is NOT because Americans are just nastier people than Australians, Brits and Canadians. And if you REMOVE DETROIT, CHICAGO, NEW ORLEANS, WASHINGTON DC. We drop to almost the bottom of that list. So we should just ban those cities right?? Maybe raze them and start over? Its not a problem of the tools used, its a society and mental health problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtiflyer 0 #293 October 3, 2015 jbscout2002 They were National Guard. Like it was said earlier, they were under trained, very inexperienced, and had a leader that was rejected from active duty for mental incompetence. No training in crowd control, and the students, expecting them to be better trained and more professional and restrained, basically overwhelmed them and they panicked. My father was National Guard out of Fort Ord. Was sent to riots in Los Angeles and demonstrations in Berkley. Never had to engage, but he says the hippies got a whole lot more nervous when they affixed bayonets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #294 October 3, 2015 jbscout2002 Also remember that Soldiers are more sympathetic to their communities and civilian friends and family than they are to a questionable government. We aren't brain washed robots that will mindlessly follow questionable orders. America. It's a beautiful country. Kent State disproves that one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #295 October 3, 2015 winsor ******Also remember that Soldiers are more sympathetic to their communities and civilian friends and family than they are to a questionable government. And then there's Kent State. Those were National Guardsmen who had just come from a high-intensity standoff with miners on strike. They were untrained in crowd control, and led by blithering idiots. Still happened... and some of us old farts remember it clearlyThey made songs about it... Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio. Gotta get down to it Soldiers are gunning us down Should have been done long ago. What if you knew her And found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know? La la la la la la la la La la la la la la la La la la la la la la la La la la la la la la. Gotta get down to it Soldiers are gunning us down Should have been done long ago. What if you knew her And found her dead on the ground How can you run when you know? Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming, We're finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming, Four dead in Ohio. Four dead in Ohio Four dead in Ohio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbscout2002 1 #296 October 3, 2015 jtiflyer ***They were National Guard. Like it was said earlier, they were under trained, very inexperienced, and had a leader that was rejected from active duty for mental incompetence. No training in crowd control, and the students, expecting them to be better trained and more professional and restrained, basically overwhelmed them and they panicked. My father was National Guard out of Fort Ord. Was sent to riots in Los Angeles and demonstrations in Berkley. Never had to engage, but he says the hippies got a whole lot more nervous when they affixed bayonets. Soldiers are generally not trained for crowd control. I got a small taste of it in Kosovo in 2000. It's like Mr. Miyagi says, "It's easier to fight than it is to prevent a fight". In another country there is a cultural and language barier that gives you some psychological distance from the crowd. I imagine it would be much more difficult to perform those duties in the face of a crowd consisting of your own community. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbscout2002 1 #297 October 3, 2015 Amazon ***Also remember that Soldiers are more sympathetic to their communities and civilian friends and family than they are to a questionable government. We aren't brain washed robots that will mindlessly follow questionable orders. America. It's a beautiful country. Kent State disproves that one So we should persecute all military members because of the mistakes of a select few? Kind of like what we are doing to our LEOs right now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #298 October 3, 2015 jbscout2002 ******Also remember that Soldiers are more sympathetic to their communities and civilian friends and family than they are to a questionable government. We aren't brain washed robots that will mindlessly follow questionable orders. America. It's a beautiful country. Kent State disproves that one So we should persecute all military members because of the mistakes of a select few? Kind of like what we are doing to our LEOs right now. How many of the LEO's who are some of the problem children to their departments learned their craft in the military and forgot a lot of their humanity by their experiences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbscout2002 1 #299 October 3, 2015 Amazon *********Also remember that Soldiers are more sympathetic to their communities and civilian friends and family than they are to a questionable government. We aren't brain washed robots that will mindlessly follow questionable orders. America. It's a beautiful country. Kent State disproves that one So we should persecute all military members because of the mistakes of a select few? Kind of like what we are doing to our LEOs right now. How many of the LEO's who are some of the problem children to their departments learned their craft in the military and forgot a lot of their humanity by their experiences.I don't think those type of experiences have that effect. I would argue the contrary, that experiencing those event give you a better appreciation for humanity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #300 October 3, 2015 rushmc***I'll take a swing: As a non-gun owner, it always amazed me not only how apathetic gun owners are to misuse of their hobby items but that they forcibly resist any attempt to curb misuse of firearms. I would have figured gun owners have the most to gain from getting guns out of the hands of nutjobs and criminals... Give us a plan I will listen I doubt that. Your posting history shows that you reflexively dismiss any and all suggestions to keep guns away from nutjobs and felons that may cause you the slightest inconvenience.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
