9 African Americans shot in a church in Charleston SC

[Driver1 0]

futuredivot

***
Carrying a gun indicates that you are willing to take a human life. So much for THAT argument.

Yes, in certain situations I am. At least I hope I am. My resolve hasn't been put to the test. I hope it never is. I hope if it is, I don't waiver. Now are you saying that makes me evil?

Nope, it's self preservation and protecting yourself and your loved ones if the need arises.

Like I said before, its better to have one and not need it, than not have one and wish you had.

ETA: Because after all, there are times when you've got to act right there and then, and calling 911 to wait on the police isn't going to help you, except to clean up your blood at the crime scene.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

>The problem isn't guns, it's a basic lack of respect for the sanctity of human life. I
>don't know how we got here . . . .

Part of how we got here is the attempt to dehumanize anyone we fear or disagree with - arabs, muslims, blacks, Iraqis, liberals, conservatives etc. That's how we justify torture, or a war that kills 100,000 innocent people (but not on purpose so that's OK) killing unarmed teens (well, the guy THOUGHT he was a threat, and besides, he was no choir boy!) - you can find examples in any newspaper or website.

Indeed. It's far easier to call someone a nigger or a cracker. A Haji or Gook or a Kraut. A Denier or an Alarmist. A RePUBICan or DemoCRAP.

Once you view people as something other than human it's easier to step all over them. Even Bush is an Idiot or Obama is a traitor or any of that just leads to a feedback loop of contempt.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Driver1 0]

lawrocket

***>The problem isn't guns, it's a basic lack of respect for the sanctity of human life. I
>don't know how we got here . . . .

Part of how we got here is the attempt to dehumanize anyone we fear or disagree with - arabs, muslims, blacks, Iraqis, liberals, conservatives etc. That's how we justify torture, or a war that kills 100,000 innocent people (but not on purpose so that's OK) killing unarmed teens (well, the guy THOUGHT he was a threat, and besides, he was no choir boy!) - you can find examples in any newspaper or website.

Indeed. It's far easier to call someone a nigger or a cracker. A Haji or Gook or a Kraut. A Denier or an Alarmist. A RePUBICan or DemoCRAP.

Once you view people as something other than human it's easier to step all over them. Even Bush is an Idiot or Obama is a traitor or any of that just leads to a feedback loop of contempt.

Even the wife of Israel's Interior Minister was doing it by joking on twitter that Obama coffee was "black and weak".

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[kallend 1,647]

airdvr

From your own link you live in the Far Southeast Side, not the South Side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Side,_Chicago#/media/File:Chicago_community_areas_map.svg

I've never claimed you were lying. If you infer that so be it. Please accept my apologies. However, in the future you should qualify your "I live on the South Side" by saying I live on the FAR Southeast side. That's where LeRoy Brown's brother Bubba lives.

Wrong again.

I do not live on the "far southeast side", and even if I did, it is PART of the southside. From the SAME article: The South Side is a major part of the city of Chicago, which is located in Cook County, Illinois. It is one of the three major parts of the city, the others being the West Side and the North Side.

So are you now going to weasel that the southeast side is part of the north side or the west side?

At least Anvilbrother was smart enough to figure it out. Clearly you are not.

So stop calling me a liar.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Ahhhhh dz.com. Where a story about terrorism turns into a debate about zip codes and neighborhood boundaries.

[kallend 1,647]

futuredivot

***
Carrying a gun indicates that you are willing to take a human life. So much for THAT argument.

Yes, in certain situations I am. At least I hope I am. My resolve hasn't been put to the test. I hope it never is. I hope if it is, I don't waiver. Now are you saying that makes me evil?

I made no moral judgment whatsoever. Simply stated that carrying a gun indicates that you are willing to take a human life. Apparently you are.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 622]

Some children will never grow up.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Your work speaks for itself, you have been misrepresenting yourself as far back as 2004 to project to everyone that you live in a bad part of town to bolster your gun and other arguments when in reality you lived between two country clubs, and a near half million dollar home that was technically SOUTH of Chicago, but not in the infamous south side crime area as you vaguely led everyone to believe.. You know that you were leading people to think you lived here, but used the context ''South side of Chicago" to get around technicalities. And then you say no I was being honest all along, well then John your argument is irreverent and misleading because its shown and you confirmed you were 12 miles south in a nice area...No shit you wouldn't need a gun or have been a victim of a crime you lived smack dab between country clubs/mansions, not crack houses. Using your argument here in Louisiana I live on the SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO TOO!!!

When I alluded to the fact that there is no way you or your family member has lived there that long and not been a victim of a crime you point blank hide facts. Well I found a post where you tell a story about your wife getting mugged. Then a post where you tell a completely different story where something like that has never happened to anyone you are related to or work with.

Guess you dont call a family member being robbed a crime, you conveniently left this out when I questioned you.

Quote

I live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana our crime stats are on par or worse than yours. Congrats on never having been a victim or knowing any, I think you are lying

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3015218;search_string=chicago;#3015218

Quote

The teenager who snatched my ex-wife's purse was caught with it by the Chicago police, who then proceeded to let him go.....She wasn't "ex" at the time.

And here you are caught experiencing selective amnesia about the above incident!!
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3928609;search_string=chicago;#3928609

Quote

In those 32+ years I haven't been mugged, threatened, or experienced any situation where having a gun would have been useful to me. Neither has any member of my family, nor any of my workmates.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1140008;search_string=chicago;#1140008

Quote

It must be terrible to live your life in constant fear.
I've lived and worked on the south side of Chicago for 26 years and I do NOT feel the need to arm myself against would-be attackers.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1157754;search_string=chicago;#1157717

Quote

When you live and work in the big city you need to be street smart and know the neighborhoods. How do you think I've survived 27 years on the south side of Chicago?Ton

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1263975;search_string=chicago;#1263975

Quote

I'm 3 times older than you and I've worked on the south side of Chicago for longer than you've been alive, and this has not happened to me - ever.
Maybe you need a change of lifestyle rather than a gun.

You even admit you really dont live in chicago.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1696454;search_string=chicago;#1696454

Quote

I drive into Chicago every day in a small car. I'd prefer to take a train but there isn't one from where I live.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2436170;search_string=chicago;#2436170

Quote

I live in a suburb of Chicago and work on the south side of the city. You delude yourself.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2560118;search_string=chicago;#2560118

Quote

Mine is about the only house in the suburban street that does not have a SUV in its driveway. The Chicago freeways are choked with SUVs commuting into the city. At the weekend, the country club parking lot is full of SUVs.

Wait I thought you lived in chicago??
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4074320;search_string=chicago;#4074320

Quote

I'm not a mind reader, I'm not a psychologist, and I don't live in Chicago.

Ahh yes who could forget this gem, where you alluded to the fact that you could easily buy a gun off the street because you live on the south side of chicago.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4663894;search_string=chicago;#4663894

Quote

You do know that I live on the south side of Chicago, right?

You mean in the house between the country clubs, or the near $500,000 one? This was in 2014 so im guessing the latter one no where near the "hood"
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4687066;search_string=chicago;#4687066

Quote

I have worked on the south side of Chicago for 37 years and currently live on the south side. I have developed a pretty good feel for whom to avoid. Apparently it works because I have had zero incidents in all that time.

Ooh other than your wife getting mugged....most people would call that a negative encounter, but of course your about technicalities and selective amnesia to be vaguely correct.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4693522;search_string=chicago;#4693522

Quote

I've lived and worked on Chicago's south side for 37 years. I'll drive anywhere. I normally have no reason to walk other than near home, work and the shopping or downtown areas. In those 37 years I have not had any negative encounters.

Alot of shotgun houses in the hood have 250' driveways I guess.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4717443;search_string=chicago;#4717443

Quote

My driveway is 250' long and goes uphill (but only in one direction).

The context was "More ignorant shit...you never have lived in a violent inner city, have you? "
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4725578;search_string=chicago;#4725578

Quote

I can't speak for TK's residences, but I have worked on the south side of Chicago for 37 years, I currently live there, and I agree 100% with TK's words.

Showing off that fake bad area you live in again to bolster your argument.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Put the keyboard down. Turn off your computer. Go outside.

Jesus Christ.

[normiss 622]

More impressive is the amount of effort put forth to continue a meaningless argument.

[kallend 1,647]

I suppose in your world people never move from one town to another.

I have moved FROM Chicago TO the burbs and back again. I have not made a secret of it. YOU even managed to find the addresses in both places, yet are calling me a liar for stating that FACT.

Right now I live on the south side of Chicago, exactly as I stated and as YOU confirmed. I have not been mugged or been in a position where a gun would be useful, just as I stated. Contrary to your opinion, I am NOT my ex-wife, who did have her purse snatched by a 13 year old. Purse snatching is NOT mugging (no assault or threat of violence). I doubt she would have shot a child even if she did have a gun.

In NONE of the quotes you so carefully found did I state that I lived in the "hood" (your expression) or a bad part of town. Those were ass-umptions on YOUR part.

Get over yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

We all know what your doing with the "South Side" narrative, I will let that go, if you address this...

I called you out on never having had a relative be a victim of a crime during your time in Chicago.

Quote

I live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana our crime stats are on par or worse than yours. Congrats on never having been a victim or knowing any, I think you are lying

Clearly you have but chose to ignore it, so I was right.

Quote

Kallend wrote:
The teenager who snatched my ex-wife's purse was caught with it by the Chicago police, who then proceeded to let him go.....She wasn't "ex" at the time.

And this one quote below was another thread, so lets not focus on that at all as it has nothing to do with it, just go ahead and answer the above quotes it has nothing to do with purse snatching/mugging/ or guns. Simply you leaving out the fact that your wife was mugged when called out about never having been a victim of a crime or knowing anyone that has.

Quote

In those 32+ years I haven't been mugged, threatened, or experienced any situation where having a gun would have been useful to me. Neither has any member of my family, nor any of my workmates.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[kallend 1,647]

Purse snatching is NOT mugging (no assault or threat of violence - look up the definition). I doubt she would have shot a child even if she did have a gun. Hence my statement was correct.

Your weaseling protestations are gettimg lamer and lamer.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,433]

Kallend - Anvil - enough. No more "where Kallend lives" nonsense.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Copy that Billvon no more WHERE KALLEND LIVES POSTS.

kallend

Purse snatching is NOT mugging (no assault or threat of violence - look up the definition). I doubt she would have shot a child even if she did have a gun. Hence my statement was correct.

Your weaseling protestations are gettimg lamer and lamer.

NO that was TWO different threads, please stop with your bullshit tactics now and be an honest person...



I called you out.

Quote

I live in Baton Rouge, Louisiana our crime stats are on par or worse than yours. Congrats on never having been a victim or knowing any, I think you are lying

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4737141;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=50;

You selectively left this out, which proved I was right.

Quote

The teenager who snatched my ex-wife's purse was caught with it by the Chicago police, who then proceeded to let him go.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3015218;search_string=chicago;#3015218

There was NO mention of "Purse snatching...mugging assault or threat of violence or guns...in these posts the only word mentioned was crime so stop with the typical distractions.

Stick to these two posts like I asked before, and give me a reason why you selectively left this out which proves my first post.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 622]

In need of a vacation then?

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

The father should build serious time for giving him a gun, even if it wasn't the weapon used (I suspect it was).

Apparently initial reports from law enforcement "stretched the truth" a bit. According to family members Roof was given money as a 21st birthday present. He chose to spend that money to buy a gun. Should parents of adult children be held criminally accountable for how their children spend their own money?

Also, Roof had been convicted of misdemeanor trespass, and had been charged (but not yet tried or convicted) of misdemeanor drug possession. Neither charge was a felony, and neither would have caused him to fail a background check. If he was legally in the clear to purchase a gun, why should we seek to imprison the parents for giving him money for his birthday that he later used to buy a gun? You're opening a can of worms here, if you expect all parents to be able to predict the actions of their adult children months or years into the future.

I'm more concerned about the friends who knew he was talking about taking some action based on his racist ideas. However, even there he apparently made no specific threat, and no-one felt he was serious. Indeed one of the friends, who has been interviewed a lot in the last few days, is quite obviously black, and he didn't feel the comments were meant seriously. It seems a contradiction that someone with such racist views would have black friends, but that just illustrates the difficulty in distinguishing between a serious threat and someone just shooting their mouth off (so to speak). As unsettling and as contemptible as Roof's "manifesto" and web postings may have been, they were not illegal and law enforcement would not have been able to detain him based only on his words, as long as he did not mention a specific planned action or target.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***I stand by my reply

I know you do. That way you can dismiss anyone who disagrees with you without needing to think about their position.

Just for you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

It's time for ALL southern states to do this as well.

[Driver1 0]

kallend

******
Carrying a gun indicates that you are willing to take a human life. So much for THAT argument.

Yes, in certain situations I am. At least I hope I am. My resolve hasn't been put to the test. I hope it never is. I hope if it is, I don't waiver. Now are you saying that makes me evil?

I made no moral judgment whatsoever. Simply stated that carrying a gun indicates that you are willing to take a human life. Apparently you are.

Okay, lets put that argument to the test. Suppose YOU, John Kallend, were faced with a life or death situation and the only way to get out of it alive is to have a gun and use it. What are YOU gonna do?

ETA To clarify, if you shoot to wound, and the dirtbag still tries to kill you... then what?

Don't waste your time giving him a chance to kill you. Shoot center mass until he drops and stops moving or loses his weapon.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[Driver1 0]

normiss

It's time for ALL southern states to do this as well.

I totally agree. Confederate flags have no place being flown on public land or above public buildings.

There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"!

[normiss 622]

Germany is an excellent comparison.
Yes, you CAN see a lot about the Nazi past.
In museums.

Much where ugly human behavior in history belongs.
We need to let everyone know these sorts of behavior are no longer acceptable.

Hatred has to stop.
It's just so fucking wrong and stupid.

[kallend 1,647]

Driver1

ETA To clarify, if you shoot to wound, and the dirtbag still tries to kill you... then what?

Don't waste your time giving him a chance to kill you. Shoot center mass until he drops and stops moving or loses his weapon.

Well, thank you for the lesson. I'll keep it in mind. However, based on actual data the most likely life/death situation I'm likely to encounter BY FAR is while skydiving or Scuba diving and I don't think your advice will help.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

normiss

Germany is an excellent comparison.
Yes, you CAN see a lot about the Nazi past.
In museums.

Much where ugly human behavior in history belongs.
We need to let everyone know these sorts of behavior are no longer acceptable.

Hatred has to stop.
It's just so fucking wrong and stupid.

Unfortunately (or not) we have that pesky little thing called "Freedom of Speech."

While I fully agree that hatred is wrong and stupid, people have the right to be those things.

Certain "speech" is illegal in Germany. Some may agree with that (that's their right). I don't.

Freedom of Speech includes the right to be an asshole. A hateful, prejudiced, asshole.
Because at some point in time, someone may decide that something I consider important is no longer "acceptable."
And the freedom to speak about it, no matter how unpopular, is important.

Taking the flag off the state capitol is a very, very good thing. It's tantamount to state sponsorship of hatred and bigotry, despite what the "historical advocates" say.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[futuredivot 0]

wolfriverjoe

Taking the flag off the state capitol is a very, very good thing.

And South Carolina did that years ago. It was moved to a Confederate Memorial which everyone thought was appropriate at the time. Then the people that said "If you do this, we will be happy" decided they weren't happy anymore. I like most other South Carolinians aren't wed to the idea of the flag being anywhere. Heck, buy it and put it in your yard if you wish. It does get tiring trying find a common ground with people with stronger feelings only to have to go through it all again. We also realize that it doesn't address ANY of the issues that caused this or any other tragedy in the last 40 or 50 years. It's a silly placebo for silly people.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour