What Chicago needs is more gun laws they say.

[Anvilbrother 0]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-80736131/

82 people shot this weekend.

Top cop said lax gun laws the blame

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/07/justice/chicago-shootings/

Quote

Among the suspects: a man wanted in connection with a murder who has 21 prior arrests, and another with six previous arrests, including one this year for aggravated assault for discharging a weapon.
"How this individual is out on bond is beyond me," McCarthy said.
The incidents include eight times in which police fired guns at suspects or were fired on, McCarthy told reporters. In two of those incidents, police shot and killed the suspects, both of whom were 16.

I think they should stop letting people like those shit heads loose.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Pacific 0]

Sounds like it's just young punks with nothing to loose. America's criminal justice system is too soft and expensive to effectively deal with this growing epidemic.

[1969912 0]

Six people were shot in the ass.

http://heyjackass.com/

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[champu 1]

It's stupid but I laughed...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/environmental-study-finds-air-in-chicago-now-75-bu,36407/

[ibx 2]

Quote

Sounds like it's just young punks with nothing to loose. America's criminal justice system is too soft and expensive to effectively deal with this growing epidemic.

The USA already has more people in prison than any country on earth. Both in absolute and relative numbers. Please explain how putting even more people in prison is going to solve anything.

[kelpdiver 2]

ibx

The USA already has more people in prison than any country on earth. Both in absolute and relative numbers. Please explain how putting even more people in prison is going to solve anything.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how not jailing people who shoot at each other will solve anything.

Now if we stopped jailing drug users, we would be in much better shape, might even get below first place behind nations that merely shoot these sort of criminals. And if we adopted a saner drug legalization approach and killed the profit incentives for gangs to shoot each other, even better.

As for the original topic, no idea how stronger gun laws will address 16 year olds shooting at cops.

[ibx 2]

Quote

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how not jailing people who shoot at each other will solve anything.

You give people some perspective. Obviously once they start shooting at each other it's probably too late. I would argue though, that a 16 year old is not beyond saving. The trick is to not let them get that far. That can be achieved by a competitive education and even more importantly a perspective to be able achieve more in life than minimum wage, for a lot of people even that remains elusive.

How this can be achieved is matter of hot debate, one thing where most people are in agreement about is, to stop the quasi segregation and ghettoisation of certain ethnicities or social groups in the inner cities. This is a problem in every western country.

I think putting young people away for decades in the US justice system harms society more than anything else. Hardly any effort is made to re socialize inmates or to turn anybody back in to productive member of society.

[kallend 1,623]

As a Chicago resident, I'd say that what we need are fewer turf wars between gangs that make a living selling dope. Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Would legalizing weed stop the gangs, or do you think they would step up their coke and crack game and it would be the same?

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Boomerdog 0]

Quote

Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

Soo...might you be implying that since the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods that are run by the street gangs, it's palatable to understand the violence or maybe accept it? That is sheer equivocation. Sorry, not buying your argument.

[Andy9o8 0]

Anvilbrother

Would legalizing weed stop the gangs, or do you think they would step up their coke and crack game and it would be the same?

It'll be the same, more or less, as long as there are other socially-demanded commodities that remain unlawful: other intoxicants, gambling, sex, etc. This has long been one classic argument in favor of legalizing vice: to drastically reduce its connection to the criminal element that profits from it by taking the risk of supplying it.

But just as there is a profitable military-industrial complex that needs constant "threats" to feed it, so, too, is there a police-criminal justice-prison complex that feeds off of as much social activity as possible being and remaining illegal. Both complexes are heavily backed by the private corporations and public employee unions that profit from them, and by the politicians that profit from the corporations and the unions. And so it goes, and will ever be.

[Andy9o8 0]

Boomerdog

Quote

Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

Soo...might you be implying that since the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods that are run by the street gangs, it's palatable to understand the violence or maybe accept it? That is sheer equivocation. Sorry, not buying your argument.

That's not the take-away I got from his post; but I'll let him speak for himself.

[Amazon 7]

kallend

As a Chicago resident, I'd say that what we need are fewer turf wars between gangs that make a living selling dope. Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

And the guns the kids are provided with belong to the gangs as part of their business model. If the kid loses the gun or it is taken away by other thugs or the cops... the gang will retaliate against the young banger.

[Fast 0]

Andy9o8

***

Quote

Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

Soo...might you be implying that since the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods that are run by the street gangs, it's palatable to understand the violence or maybe accept it? That is sheer equivocation. Sorry, not buying your argument.

That's not the take-away I got from his post; but I'll let him speak for himself.

It is exactly the attitude that a lot of people in chicago have though. The violence gets trumped through the papers by politicians to try and win arguments and boost votes but at the end of the day no one is actually doing much to fix the problem.

Chicago and Milwaukee (where I live) are both very segregated and as long as the problems aren't in the "good" neighborhoods not a whole lot gets done about it.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[regulator 0]

Amazon

***As a Chicago resident, I'd say that what we need are fewer turf wars between gangs that make a living selling dope. Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

And the guns the kids are provided with belong to the gangs as part of their business model. If the kid loses the gun or it is taken away by other thugs or the cops... the gang will retaliate against the young banger.

pretty sure any social group that requires you to get your ass beat senseless before entrance isn't a respectable organization.

[Amazon 7]

regulator

******As a Chicago resident, I'd say that what we need are fewer turf wars between gangs that make a living selling dope. Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

And the guns the kids are provided with belong to the gangs as part of their business model. If the kid loses the gun or it is taken away by other thugs or the cops... the gang will retaliate against the young banger.

pretty sure any social group that requires you to get your ass beat senseless before entrance isn't a respectable organization.

Hmmmm Does BUDS or any of the other similar groups qualify for you???

They get guns given to them by the group too

[lawrocket 3]

Andy9o8

***

Quote

Almost all the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods (Lawndale and Englewood) that are run by the street gangs.

Soo...might you be implying that since the violence is confined to 2 small neighborhoods that are run by the street gangs, it's palatable to understand the violence or maybe accept it? That is sheer equivocation. Sorry, not buying your argument.

That's not the take-away I got from his post; but I'll let him speak for himself.

It's what I took from the post. It's what I have taken from policy over the last 30 years. The people being killed are primarily the poor colored people, and the white neighborhoods are generally kept free of it. Every now and then some white kid will fall victim (the blonder and thinner, the better) and there will be an outcry over the violence. Which will soon pass after the politicians seek to ban another type of gun/ammunition.

The politicians play to the majority. And if the politicians don't care about those couple of neighborhoods where a holocaust is occurring it is because the people don't give a shit.

I think it's a shame.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Rick 67]

Anvilbrother

Would legalizing weed stop the gangs, or do you think they would step up their coke and crack game and it would be the same?

good question

what about a larger police presence?
would more cops patrolling the streets slow them down

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

It's what I took from the post.

Well, as I said, I'll let him speak for himself.

[normiss 622]

It's clear you're an attorney.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Quote

Now if we stopped jailing drug users, we would be in much better shape, might even get below first place behind nations that merely shoot these sort of criminals. And if we adopted a saner drug legalization approach and killed the profit incentives for gangs to shoot each other, even better.

I many other countries, better education has helped with this process.

Maybe a little less money for all your three letter agencies, a bit more money for better education.

There will always be a black market and the associated crime. You can reduce the size by giving people a better shot at life.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

Now if we stopped jailing drug users, we would be in much better shape, might even get below first place behind nations that merely shoot these sort of criminals. And if we adopted a saner drug legalization approach and killed the profit incentives for gangs to shoot each other, even better.

I many other countries, better education has helped with this process.

Maybe a little less money for all your three letter agencies, a bit more money for better education.

There will always be a black market and the associated crime. You can reduce the size by giving people a better shot at life.

throwing money at big education has already proven it does not work

But I do agree with a couple of your points, however
Government is the problem here
Government enables poor areas to stay poor and this invites crime
Government also makes it harder for those who do and will work. Those who would start businesses and would ultimatley hire people and give them shot at a better life, are being regulated out of doing so

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

Andy9o8

***Would legalizing weed stop the gangs, or do you think they would step up their coke and crack game and it would be the same?

It'll be the same, more or less, as long as there are other socially-demanded commodities that remain unlawful: other intoxicants, gambling, sex, etc. This has long been one classic argument in favor of legalizing vice: to drastically reduce its connection to the criminal element that profits from it by taking the risk of supplying it.


I don't see the demand as a constant. Far more people want weed than they do coke or speed. One is an rather innocent recreational drug that can be safely consumed, and the other 2 are not.

Make it available and the gangs will have a smaller market, and worse, pricing pressure on their goods. I don't see how they can increase the sex trade demand, and there's gambling options in every direction now.

[StreetScooby 5]

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That can be achieved by a competitive education and even more importantly a perspective to be able achieve more in life than minimum wage, for a lot of people even that remains elusive.

The best way to deal with this is for their father to stay at home in a stable 2-parent family. It's fundamental to creating and maintaining a civil society.

We are all engines of karma

[ibx 2]

Quote

The best way to deal with this is for their father to stay at home in a stable 2-parent family. It's fundamental to creating and maintaining a civil society.

Though a traditional family is definitely a stabilizing factor, I think with a divorce rate of over 50% and the way society is developing(contraception, emancipation etc.) the traditional family will become rarer and rarer.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Reports/2012/us-household-change.aspx

This is also not so much of a problem if the state/government takes over the roll of providing the children with a stable environment by supplying day care and day schools. This is currently happening in Germany where officials have identified the problem of lower class single households. The government has to now step in to insure that all children get equal opportunity by keeping them in school for longer hours, this also gives the parent enough time to work. School is also compulsory to the point where German parents have sought asylum in US for religious reasons, other parents have gone to jail for not sending their children to school. This is detrimental to gang building.

I know this not the perfect solution, but it's better than locking them up.