It's 2014...e-mails don't just get lost

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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so you're saying that taxing things that aren't necessary for life is going to cause an unnecessary burden?

With that provision, sales tax becomes essentially an optional tax. Don't want to pay it, then don't buy the things that are taxed.

I think you're overlooking the larger economic impacts of adding a very large tax to purchases that may not be "necessary for life", but are generally necessary for living/working. Remember that sales taxes will have to go up dramatically if they are to replace income taxes, and those taxes will have to be paid at the time of purchase, they can't be spread over the year, much less over the useful lifetime of the goods/services being purchased.

As a simple example, consider buying a car. Unless you happen to be one of the small percentage of the population that lives in a large city with public transit that runs efficiently, dependably, and 24/7, you will probably need some sort of vehicle to get to and from work, buy groceries (ever try to carry a dozen shopping bags by hand on a subway?), etc. Cars are already an expensive item, but with a car loan you can spread that cost over many months (at the expense of paying interest of course). Now consider a 25 to 50% sales tax. That tax will have to be paid at the time of purchase. Banks use the value of the car as collateral, and so will only loan you up to the value of the car (or somewhat less), but they won't loan you enough to cover the cost of the car plus taxes. That means that to buy an inexpensive new car (say, $20,000 for ease of calculation) you'll have to have $5-10,000 just for the tax, in addition to the down payment for the car. The result is that people will just drive old junkers until they die, and sales of new cars will plummet. There just are not enough rich people with enough interest in collecting cars to replace the net buying power of the segment of the population for whom $10,000 (on top of the actual cost of the car) is a barrier that is so high they'll pay it only when they have no other choice (as in, when their old car dies and cannot be repaired for less than $10,000).

What will happen to the auto industry when their market is cut by 90%? Of course, when all those jobs disappear, all those now-unemployed people will also not have any money to spend.

Here in Georgia, the state recently went from charging an annual ad valorium tax when you renew your vehicle registration to a one-time tax (about 6.7%) which is paid in full at the time of purchase (new or used cars, private sale or dealer, doesn't matter). I read that that has already had an adverse effect on sales.

What will be the macroeconomic impact of making every purchase much more expensive, with the increased cost payable up front? How much of an economic slowdown are you willing to impose to realize the goal of shifting the tax base of the country away from the wealthiest fraction of the population?

You should also consider the cost of implementing and monitoring a national sales tax. When Canada implemented a national goods and services tax (about 12%, on top of local and provincial taxes) all the revenue collected for the first several years went just to the cost of hiring and training all the new government workers needed to monitor and enforce the tax, new computer systems, etc. Also every merchant in the country had to absorb the cost of reconfiguring their systems to collect the new tax and forward it to the federal government. The new tax was supposed to replace various hidden excise taxes, taxes levied on middlemen, etc, so the program was sold to the public on the grounds that removing the hidden taxes would lower retail prices, so the net tax burden would stay the same or even go down. In practice, retail prices did not come down nearly as much as expected, so after-tax prices were even higher than before. Big surprise .
Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 1,649]

I always think it funny that those who most loudly proclaim that the government can't get anything right on account of incompetence are the exact same ones who also (a) immediately smell a conspiracy when government screws up, and (b) are perfectly happy to have government administering the death penalty.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

Very important point you raise about the LTV limits for loans. As it stands currently without this added tax, a large percentage of people would be underwater on their insurance payoff if the car were totaled in the first year of ownership.

California (and I imagine most) engage in the obnoxious behavior of applying the full sales tax rate to all used car sales as well, no matter how many times it may change hands. So it's likely the option of going used would not be any better in this matter (and the car loans for used tend to charge substantially higher rates).

[Anvilbrother 0]

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Your prices are off a slight bit.


Ground beef prices are closer to 3.89 a pound nationally.
Lettuce is around $1 a head.
Tomatoes are about 1.75 a pound
Onions are about right since they are closer to .75 usually
Shells are 2.

My math shows its almost $6 for meat, 2.75 for veggies, and 2 for shells. Now add in the cheese since every taco needs cheese and also the sour cream and you are over $18-20 to make those same tacos.

I base prices off my grocery store. I won't dispute that price varies from your location or from national average. I pay $0.99 for a large tomato, and wouldn't use all of it on 12 tacos. I pay $2.89/lb of beef.

Do you really think there is a pound of tomatoes on 12 tacos? And I forgot the cheese. 12 tacos worth of shredded cheese is about a buck. (I can get pre-shredded cheese for $6 for almost 2lb)

Sour cream? Well, we're comparing to the taco bell dozen for $10. The taco supreme dozen is more. But you brought it up... I'd probably use 2/3 of an 8oz package of sour cream on 12 tacos. I don't buy them a lot, but they're about a buck and a quarter here. So call it $1 worth. There you go... I'm up to $10 now. And that's all beef. Not TVP like you'll get at taco bell.

And check your math. Even if I use your prices, 1.5*3.89+1+1.75+0.75+2+1+1 (last two are cheese and sour cream) that's $13.55, not $18-20.

Can you guys type out a recipe for that, your making me hungry!

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[rehmwa 2]

kallend

I always think it funny that those who most loudly proclaim that the government can't get anything right on account of incompetence are the exact same ones who also (a) immediately smell a conspiracy when government screws up, and (b) are perfectly happy to have government administering the death penalty.

And here I thought just about everyone in the country complains about government incompetence at one point or another.

yet here we are..... Thinking outside the box again and making all sorts of connections that the common man just can't conceive. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rhaig 0]

Anvilbrother

Can you guys type out a recipe for that, your making me hungry!

I start with a little butter or bacon fat, about half an onion, and a bit of salt. Let it get translucent, then add beef, garlic powder, chili powder, and a little bit of cumin (carful... too much cumin and it will taste like dirt). get it good and brown (crunchy bits) and turn it off. Take the tortillas, warm them (I prefer soft corn tortillas) on a hot (skillet), spoon in meat, veggies as needed, some salsa, and I like a slice of avocado.

Use cast iron... everything tastes better in cast iron.

--
Rob

[kallend 1,649]

rehmwa

***I always think it funny that those who most loudly proclaim that the government can't get anything right on account of incompetence are the exact same ones who also (a) immediately smell a conspiracy when government screws up, and (b) are perfectly happy to have government administering the death penalty.

And here I thought just about everyone in the country complains about government incompetence at one point or another.

yet here we are..... Thinking outside the box again and making all sorts of connections that the common man just can't conceive. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

I'm quite sure the common man can conceive of them. However, there are a lot of uncommon hypocrites who advocate getting government out of their affairs, but want government to stick its nose into womens' reproductive systems, marriage partner decisions, and to preside over the killing of its own citizens.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

..... and to preside over the killing of its own citizens.

You are ok with making the murder of babies available on demand

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Left field.
Again.


Not to defend Kallend in any way, but that's not what he's said here.
Nor is it anywhere near an honest comment.

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

***..... and to preside over the killing of its own citizens.

You are ok with making the murder of babies available on demand

Are you ok with the men women and children your industry kills every year with the pollution created by your industries generation plants??? How many men women and children die from the effects of the effluent and polluted water from all those coal mines that your masters own and run ??? Do they even put the numbers in your company news letters??

[Anvilbrother 0]

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coal mines that your masters own and run

Do you walk every where you go, does your jump plane run on sunshine and dreams? Does your house run completely on solar? Do you grow your own food and not support any industry that needs power? Are you sure you have made all attempts to not use anything that has a connection to coal? If you say no, then your just enabling the evil power industry and your masters...

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[rushmc 18]

normiss

Left field.
Again.


Not to defend Kallend in any way, but that's not what he's said here.
Nor is it anywhere near an honest comment.

I think this is exactly what he says and defends

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Meh. I think you a different perspective, that's all.

[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

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coal mines that your masters own and run

Do you walk every where you go, does your jump plane run on sunshine and dreams? Does your house run completely on solar? Do you grow your own food and not support any industry that needs power? Are you sure you have made all attempts to not use anything that has a connection to coal? If you say no, then your just enabling the evil power industry and your masters...

I will match MY carbon footprint with ANYONE on this website. I think only Bill has a shot at beating me. Its nice having a car that gets better than 50mpg and a sailboat to go fishing.. did you know that wind is free

Hydro and nukes provide our power.. and I do have solar... not that it produces a lot here in the land of clouds.. but it gives me options.

I will also bet I have far healthier organically grown food than anyone who posts here... and yes I do grow quite a bit of my own. I will be spending this weekend putting up small mesh wire around my blueberry bushes to keep the robins that nest on my property and eat all the bugs I do not have to spray from now eating all the berries. I froze about 40 pounds of strawberries from my greenhouse already... the robins cant get to them. I have picked about 60 pounds of cherries so far... lots of apples and pears on the tree this year... and the one of the peach trees just suffered a broken limb because it had so many on it. I could go on.. but it would probably just annoy you further.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I'm not annoyed, that sounds pretty good. Too bad you cant live off strawberries, cherries, pears and nukes tho.

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[Amazon 7]

Anvilbrother

I'm not annoyed, that sounds pretty good. Too bad you cant live off strawberries, cherries, pears and nukes tho.

I did say other veggies.. and the neighbor grows all kind of protein on the hoof and we trade things I grow, catch or shoot for things he grows that turn grass and bugs into protein... its that whole barter that civilized people came up with 20 millennia or so ago. we have a network of folks who do the same. I am having a nice juicy duck for din din tomorrow that I do not have to worry about digging pellets out of.

My electric bill... you don't even want to know.... that would just upset most of you... it is very very very low for my modest 2500 Sq Ft home.. even by the standards of the Pacific NorthWet

[kallend 1,649]

rushmc

***Left field.
Again.


Not to defend Kallend in any way, but that's not what he's said here.
Nor is it anywhere near an honest comment.

I think this is exactly what he says and defends

Negative. I want the government out of people's private lives. A woman's body is her business, not yours, not the Pope's and not the government's. Who someone marries is their business - not yours, not the Pope's, not the Mormon Church's, and not the government's. You, OTOH, want the government to be intrusive.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Negative. I want the government out of people's private lives. A woman's body is her business, not yours, not the Pope's and not the government's. Who someone marries is their business - not yours, not the Pope's, not the Mormon Church's, and not the government's.

+1

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[JerryBaumchen 1,067]

Hi John,

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You, OTOH, want the government to be intrusive.

After 42 yrs of membership, this is why I left the Republican Party.

Well, to be truthful: The Republican Party left me.

JerryBaumchen

[funjumper101 15]

Anvilbrother

Quote

Negative. I want the government out of people's private lives. A woman's body is her business, not yours, not the Pope's and not the government's. Who someone marries is their business - not yours, not the Pope's, not the Mormon Church's, and not the government's.

+1

+1000

How come the same conservative MEN who rail about unwanted government intrusion into their personal and business lives are the exact same MEN that are all in favor of unwanted government intrusion into a woman's personal medical decisions?

Could it be that they are hypocritical and inconsistent in their so called "beliefs"?

In other words, the so called deeply held beliefs are actually quite shallow, and don't include the female half of the population.

Nothing positive for society has ever come about via conservative philosophy. ALL of the progress US society has made has come about due to liberal/progressive philosophy. Nothing good has happened in society due to conservative philosophy.

NOT A DAMN THING!!

For the dumb shits here, conservative is NOT equal to Republican, and Democratic is NOT equal to Liberal/Progressive. For those that are familiar with history, this is quite obvious.

[airdvr 200]

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Nothing positive for society has ever come about via conservative philosophy

I can almost see the spittle. "I'm mad as hell..."

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

airdvr

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Nothing positive for society has ever come about via conservative philosophy

I can almost see the spittle. "I'm mad as hell..."

So.. instead of a PA.. why not enlighten us to what the current crop of Conservatives have ever conserved???

Got anything there???

Buehler.... Buehler???