promise5 17 #126 May 31, 2014 Sure. It's across the boardNo matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #127 May 31, 2014 Bolas ******But he's not listed on the registry so as far as becoming an instructor he's good. Yes many people have made mistakes they regret I understand that. But,to violently assault and rape someone or molest a child sorry that's a little more then a "mistake" they might regret. Have you considered the possibility of the TI being hired with the stipulation and understanding he NEVER fly with a passenger of the sex of his previous victims? I'm not entirely certain I see the issue of the guy being allowed to work with male passengers if his victims have been, for instance, women. Sounds good in theory but we all know the first busy day... This is the internet and specifically Speakers Corner. "In theory" is pretty much what we do here. That includes this thread because I'm almost certain this is a mostly theoretical discussion. I am not aware this is a wide-spread issue. Always a possibility of a bad egg out there, but to my knowledge this isn't happening very much to begin with. DZOs are generally pretty careful and if the story ever got around the TI would pretty much be blackballed from every DZ the DZO knows (if not every Group Member DZ). Again, I'm not saying it's not possible, but where exactly is this coming from anyway other than a theoretical discussion?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #128 May 31, 2014 If you've been raped and reported it. She's been found guilty and placed on the national registry then she should not be allowed to be a TI.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #129 May 31, 2014 QuoteSure. It's across the board I'll say one thing for ya Promises5, I admire your courage, and integrity. It's very rare and so not a practice of many people these days. Watch your 6! Best- Richard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #130 May 31, 2014 turtlespeed***I'm not going to bother. It's not worth my time. Instead of belittling, have a conversation, without condescension, and explain why. I didn't think he could.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #131 May 31, 2014 kelpdiver*********Public sex offender data bases are what keeps them from reoffending more often. They don't change. The majority are situational offenders-if they are ever in that I've seen this claim before, but it defies any reason. What part of this defies reason? You need a babysitter. Your neighbor offers. You look him up-see him on the public database and say no thanks. The guy applies/volunteers to work with kids-volunteer coach/at church/ delivering kids bouncers etc. Look him up and say no thanks. It's there-use it. It defies reason because you describe a tiny subset of situations where your child and the mindless child molester come into contact. Are you expecting all of them to offer their name and address up front? ___________________________________________ Anyone that doesn't at least know the name of who they're leaving their child with??????????????? _______________________________________ And are you asking your neighbor for a driver's license, or just looking up the name and address? Does the church do this for every one of their members? _____________________________________ Anytime a person will be supervising kids-hell yes check their name. And for all the folk worried about a PC314 putting you on the "list". Even if you shook it out in the middle of the store you won't be on the public list-it's a no post. Go to www.meganslaw.ca.gov and read up on exclusions etc. Granted this is Calif. specific. _______________________________________ I realize this is SC and some folk just want to disagree for the sake of disagreement, but............ I guess some folk will never "get it" unless it happens to them or their family-and I hope you never have to go thru that hell. Irony factor here-comparing the outpouring of support for the transsexual that came out in the forums vs. the lack of for a victim that publicly spoke out here. Pretty damn sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #132 May 31, 2014 bigbearfngIrony factor here-comparing the outpouring of support for the transsexual that came out in the forums vs. the lack of for a victim that publicly spoke out here. Pretty damn sad. I think you might be confused. For instance, just because people don't agree with a blanket banning of registered sex offenders from holding USPA certificates doesn't mean they sympathize with scum bags or are attempting to marginalize anyone's experience with being the victim of such scum bags. As noted several times, it's a matter of practicality, responsibility and legal exposure on the issuing body. The real responsibility lays with whoever hires the person for the position, not with the issuer of a piece of paper.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #133 May 31, 2014 Just throwing this out there. If the person doing the hiring doesn't have a problem hiring a sex offender? I doubt they would post that they have.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #134 May 31, 2014 promise5If the person doing the hiring doesn't have a problem hiring a sex offender? Regardless. The business owner is the ONLY person in the loop who has the actual responsibility to protect his business, employees, and customers from scum bags or possibly can. Very few DZOs would ever want any real danger to befall his customers or employees; it's simply not good for business.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #135 May 31, 2014 quade For instance, just because people don't agree with a blanket banning of registered sex offenders from holding USPA certificates doesn't mean with sympathize with scum bags or are attempting to marginalize anyone's experience with being the victim of such scum bags. True, same thing for those playing devils advocate in the marijuana/thc forums, however, those forums are full of disclaimers like "I don't actually use drugs, just saying..." I wonder why that is.... (btw, I don't use drugs, nor am I a sexual predator)Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #136 May 31, 2014 quade***Irony factor here-comparing the outpouring of support for the transsexual that came out in the forums vs. the lack of for a victim that publicly spoke out here. Pretty damn sad. I think you might be confused. Nope, not confused one damn bit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #137 May 31, 2014 bigbearfng*** I think you might be confused. Nope, not confused one damn bit. your level of confusion on this subject matches your confusion on how to use the markup language for this forum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 9 #138 May 31, 2014 kelpdiver****** I think you might be confused. Nope, not confused one damn bit. your level of confusion on this subject matches your confusion on how to use the markup language for this forum. I realize there's not a lot of people that have had to deal with the realities, not just politics or personal interests. Changes needed to the database-sure. In the works is deciding on risk factor and registration status based on elements of the crime admitted to in court-not just what it was pled down to. The reality is the whole system depends on the plea bargain to keep moving. And a plea bargain equals reduced charges. So if there's a no post drunk urinater that ended up having to register, then absolutely take him off the registry. BTW, I've stated mine-what's the source of your clarity/personal interest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #139 June 1, 2014 turtlespeed******I'm not going to bother. It's not worth my time. Instead of belittling, have a conversation, without condescension, and explain why. I didn't think he could. I let this go so I wouldn't have to get into a mess with you. Now, days after I let it go, days after my last post, you fire off at me, for no apparent reason. Why would you do this when I let it go? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #140 June 1, 2014 Dude.... you have not met Turtle have you.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #141 June 1, 2014 I really thought he was safe. I mean yeah worried about the toes but they're guy toes soooooo No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #142 June 1, 2014 Amazon Dude.... you have not met Turtle have you.... No, I've not had the pleasure. BTW, take a close look at the guy's post, which I've quoted. He responded to his own post to take a swipe at me. But I'm the bad guy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #143 June 1, 2014 Yup.... pretty muchI am having steak for din din....You should see how growly my dog bear gets when you try to take a bone away from him... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #144 June 1, 2014 AndyBoyd*********I'm not going to bother. It's not worth my time. Instead of belittling, have a conversation, without condescension, and explain why. I didn't think he could. I let this go so I wouldn't have to get into a mess with you. Now, days after I let it go, days after my last post, you fire off at me, for no apparent reason. Why would you do this when I let it go? Because you come on here as if you know something that we don't, yet provide nothing of substance to prove it. If you don't have the time to explain your legal expertise, then maybe you should just sit on the sidelines like normal and just shut up.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyBoyd 0 #145 June 1, 2014 Wow. I try to let this go, and I'm attacked from all sides. Amazing. Well, I hope you and Turtle have great weekends. Take care guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,391 #146 June 1, 2014 Coreece Because you come on here as if you know something that we don't, yet provide nothing of substance to prove it. If you don't have the time to explain your legal expertise, then maybe you should just sit on the sidelines like normal and just shut up. Oh, for chrissake!AndyBoyd already clearly explained in this thread: A citizen cannot hire an attorney to open a criminal case; Only a prosecutor can initiate an criminal case. Even after he explained it, Turtle insisted it could be done."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #147 June 1, 2014 ryoder *** Because you come on here as if you know something that we don't, yet provide nothing of substance to prove it. If you don't have the time to explain your legal expertise, then maybe you should just sit on the sidelines like normal and just shut up. Oh, for chrissake!AndyBoyd already clearly explained in this thread: A citizen cannot hire an attorney to open a criminal case; Only a prosecutor can initiate an criminal case. Even after he explained it, Turtle insisted it could be done. I didn't see that explanation - and I do not dispute it. That said, public pressure can cause a prosecutor to file charges. A lawyer that has a good argument can influence decision. I have seen it happen before. Hell even the President can make a phone call and a different decision for prosecution is reached.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #148 June 1, 2014 promise5As I said I believe he has the right to enjoy this sport. Skydive as much as he wants. But WHY does he have to be a TI or any type of instructor? As others have also said, I'm concerned about expanded definitions of "sex offender" rendering the term almost meaningless. If it's a child molester or rapist, then never, ever allow them in any position working with customers. But what if it's an 18 year old sleeping with a 17 year old? Someone caught peeing in public? A teen charged w/child porn for taking "selfies" of themselves nude? In those cases, I'd say let them enjoy the sport for awhile but as a participant, not an instructor. But let's say that after a few years they've (a) not been in trouble with the law again and (b) developed a reputation for always acting like a gentleman or a lady at the DZ. At that point I would take them at their word that they just had trouble with the law due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time--and entrust them with more responsibility. Again, I'm NOT talking about violent predators. Keep the violent predators out of situations involving trust forever. I'm talking about basically good people who ended up as registered sex offenders due to technicalities in the law."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #149 June 1, 2014 turtlespeedThat said, public pressure can cause a prosecutor to file charges. True. However, I think in a lot of cases the plaintiff's attorney in a civil case would actually have a strong DISincentive to try to pressure a prosecutor to file criminal charges. The reason is that if criminal charges are filed, the defendant may well switch their priorities and their financial resources to defending the greater legal risk: the criminal case. This could leave the defendant unable to pay a civil settlement so the plaintiff's civil attorney won't get paid. Never a happy outcome for any attorney."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #150 June 1, 2014 Turtle: Are you misbehaving again? Tsk...Tsk...J/K Best- Richard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
