normiss 622 #51 May 27, 2014 As well as a complete failure by those in his life. They KNEW he was crazy. They did nothing. I think the psychiatrist treating him failed us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #52 May 27, 2014 Well, they didn't do nothing in his case. Evidently they saw some of his YouTube videos and called the police to go check on him... ...but failed to share the videos with the police. Police are not psychiatrists so unless they find newspaper clippings, strings, and pushpins all over the walls or he's having a schizophrenic episode when they get there it's not likely they were going to bring him in for being crazy. The ironic thing about a loner posting videos threatening violence on his or her YouTube channel is that they probably have very few if any subscribers so it's unlikely many people will see it and send it to authorities. Edited to add: I find the statement from the family that was given through their attorney shortly after the rampage that they are "staunchly against guns" to be in very poor taste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #53 May 27, 2014 champuWell, they didn't do nothing in his case. Evidently they saw some of his YouTube videos and called the police to go check on him... ...but failed to share the videos with the police. Police are not psychiatrists so unless they find newspaper clippings, strings, and pushpins all over the walls or he's having a schizophrenic episode when they get there it's not likely they were going to bring him in for being crazy. The ironic thing about a loner posting videos threatening violence on his or her YouTube channel is that they probably have very few if any subscribers so it's unlikely many people will see it and send it to authorities. Edited to add: I find the statement from the family that was given through their attorney shortly after the rampage that they are "staunchly against guns" to be in very poor taste. Or.. that prohibition in their home against guns led him to acquire several once he could aqnd he did so legally. It is kind of like how a preachers daughter acts when she gets away from the stifling atmosphere of the parents home. Forbidden fuit and all of that... without any form of training in how to be responsible with the weapons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #54 May 27, 2014 I doubt he was trained on responsible knife and auto ownership either. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #55 May 27, 2014 normissI doubt he was trained on responsible knife and auto ownership either. True. That training is more likely to be available to school aged children though. Driver's Ed courses, shop classes, outdoor youth programs. It used to be that gentlemen carried pocket knives. I'm currently the one in the office someone comes to if they need a pocket knife. Nobody else carries a knife. They're not commonplace anymore. And it seems nobody is taught how to use them. Driver's ed was probably not on Rodger's agenda. He likely had a driver where most kids are learning to drive. Gun safety? That's right out. Apparently guns are evil, not the people who use them. So parents don't want their kids taught about them. Would Rodger have snapped if he'd had a gun safety class? Probably... It's not about the guns. It's about the violent actor. Who in this case killed as many with a blade as with a gun.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #56 May 27, 2014 QuoteIt used to be that gentlemen carried pocket knives. I'm currently the one in the office someone comes to if they need a pocket knife. Nobody else carries a knife. They're not commonplace anymore. And it seems nobody is taught how to use them. Blame ballpoint pens and pencil sharpeners, toss in computers for good measure. The reason most office workers in the old days carried knives had to do with writing. That has slowly faded over the decades. Very few people need a pocket knife in their daily office lives today. I suspect a LOT of people who carried pocket knives after the turn of the 20th century also were heavily influenced by the Boy Scouts who made carrying a pocket knife a rite of passage and it just stuck with them. I think I have my old Totin' Chip buried somewhere in a cigar box in a drawer.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #57 May 27, 2014 I carry one every day. Spare in my desk drawer in case I forget. I have a large box full of them at home. Some inherited from dad and my grandfather. I foresee mush as the only menu item at a steak house without them. They are but a tool. One I can't do without. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhaig 0 #58 May 27, 2014 quade I think I have my old Totin' Chip buried somewhere in a cigar box in a drawer. At least you were taught proper use. I'm amazed to find teenagers (boys and girls both) who fear using a small pocket knife. Yeah, I suppose pens and pencil sharpeners are to blame. To me it's a great tool. The original multi-tool.-- Rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #59 May 27, 2014 Here's our problem. We understand the need for and the use of tools. These crazy fucks don't. We need to stop the crazies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #60 May 27, 2014 good training still hard to come by nowadays ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #61 May 27, 2014 normiss I carry one every day. Spare in my desk drawer in case I forget. Sure, but I also know a lot of people who shouldn't have access to sharp object. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #62 May 27, 2014 normissI carry one every day. Spare in my desk drawer in case I forget. I have a large box full of them at home. Some inherited from dad and my grandfather. I foresee mush as the only menu item at a steak house without them. They are but a tool. One I can't do without. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/04/01/every-man-should-carry-a-pocket-knife/ QuoteWhy a Man Should Carry a Pocket Knife How many times have you been in a situation where you’ve said to yourself, “Damn, a knife would be really handy now!” Here are a few instances when a pocket knife can come in handy or just make the simple things in life more enjoyable: 1. Opening a box. 2. Cutting rope, tags, and string. 3. Cutting an apple. I love eating an apple that I’ve cut with my pocket knife, slice by slice. You feel like a bad ass doing it. You hold the apple in your non-dominant hand and then make a slice with the knife using your dominant hand. After you make the slice, pinch it between your thumb and knife blade. Bring the blade to your mouth and deposit the apple slice. 4. Opening a letter. Sure, you could use your finger, but using a knife is just more manly. 5. Weapon. Not the most effective, but it’s better than nothing. 6. Camping. How else will you sharpen the point of a stick in preparation for stabbing your prey? And by prey I mean hot dog. 7. You never know when you’re going to have to MacGyver your way out of a crisis. Be prepared. 8. You need something to clench in your teeth when swinging from a rope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #63 May 27, 2014 And by "manliness" they mean it in the hipster, ironic way.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #64 May 27, 2014 kallend This immature and mentally ill young man (Rodger) is a classic example of someone who could legally obtain a firearm due entirely to the toothless laws that we have in place. You mean a classic example where there is no viable process that would have filtered out this one guy and not hundreds of thousands of others. There are lots of angry virgins out there. The ones that act out are rounding errors. Maybe we will see more information in the weeks to come, but so far there are no events that point out to a gap. Hell, they even sent a LEO over to check him out. Saying it was obvious here, in hindsight, is cheap and easy, but doesn't solve any problem. You have to translate it into an actual policy with actual language. Something you've been loath to do. One newsreporter says something vague about Asperger's and there's a mob ready to make new policy based on fear, not science. And of course would have done nothing to save his housemates, or the cyclists he ran over, or the car he crashed into. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #65 May 28, 2014 normissHere's our problem. We understand the need for and the use of tools. These crazy fucks don't. We need to stop the crazies. Exactly, a gun is nothing more than a tool. It is no more different in this way from a car. A gun is an extension to our hands as a car is to our feet. I can easily kill a person with my hands but, far easier with a gun. I can easily walk a mile for a Camel but, far easier to drive. Responsibility? Apparently he showed enough responsibility to get a driver's license as well as a gun. One only need to scan the many times similar acts have been committed. Those guilty have ranged in ages from the teens to the very elderly. These people were responsible, law abiding citizens. Or, so they may appear to be but, many of these people had exhibited odd behavior. Such is the case with this guy. Yet, had someone tried to deny him his right to own a gun the NRA and the GOP would had stood strong behind him (recall the schizophrenic who talked to imaginary bears, John Rich, are you out there?) up until he started shooting. The question is, how do you sort them out? Who should be denied a gun. You are denied for a felony conviction. Problem is most of these types of killers have never even had a parking ticket. Often is the case for most everyday people who just kill another for whatever reason. The only solution is to narrow the laws. Scrap the bad and refine what works. As for the knife and car? It is weak to even compare with a gun. True that you can kill just as easy with either or you can just pick up a rock and bash someones brains out. Should this guy been denied the privilege to drive? He surely was a ticking bomb, as he had shown. Yet, he hadn't committed any crime. There are many ticking bombs out there. Some will explode, some will never. You just can't start taking away certain items due to what one may consider odd behavior. Is there a criteria somewhere that we should be aware of. What do take away? I can see that a gun should be taken from those who exhibit intent to harm but, what about the person who thinks he's Jesus? What about a car. Sure, Jesus would have no need for a car but, what about JFK (as long as it's not a convertible). The person who shows intent? There are a lot of people who are angry but, never act. And what about that knife? I bought my Kabar 1081 when I was around 8 or 9 years old. I still carry it today. Carry it everyday. I could do real damage with a two inch blade, up close. Much easier with a gun a few feet back. Knifes are easy to get. So easy an 8 year old kid can buy one at the Ben Franklin five and dime. Yup, some people should never drive, some should never touch sharp things and some should never touch a gun, some should never touch any type of tool. We just never know when someone will use them to kill. In this case, he used the three tools that echos in every argument on gun rights."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Backintothesky 0 #66 May 28, 2014 He was evidently too immature to buy a car as well but you can't legislate against those things. Guy was a fuck up. I say this time and again to people, I'm a Brit who loves the USA and the US people. It's a great country with a lot to offer and I have friends and family who live over there and are US citizens. BUT, the reason there are these shootings aren't because there are guns but because there is something deeply wrong with the psyche of the USA. Switzerland is full of guns - how many mass shootings do they have? In the UK the countryside if full of shotguns and hunting rifles, even a few straight pull AR-15's - how many mass shootings? Even when handguns were legal there was one mass shooting and that caused the ban (and people are still being killed by handguns in the UK) France - country is full of legal weapons, the only thing France can't have is full auto. Mass shootings? A couple but done with ILLEGAL firearms. I could go on, but guns ARE NOT the problem in the USA. The American psyche is..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #67 May 28, 2014 Andy9o8***I carry one every day. Spare in my desk drawer in case I forget. I have a large box full of them at home. Some inherited from dad and my grandfather. I foresee mush as the only menu item at a steak house without them. They are but a tool. One I can't do without. http://www.artofmanliness.com/2008/04/01/every-man-should-carry-a-pocket-knife/ QuoteWhy a Man Should Carry a Pocket Knife How many times have you been in a situation where you’ve said to yourself, “Damn, a knife would be really handy now!” Here are a few instances when a pocket knife can come in handy or just make the simple things in life more enjoyable: 1. Opening a box. 2. Cutting rope, tags, and string. 3. Cutting an apple. I love eating an apple that I’ve cut with my pocket knife, slice by slice. You feel like a bad ass doing it. You hold the apple in your non-dominant hand and then make a slice with the knife using your dominant hand. After you make the slice, pinch it between your thumb and knife blade. Bring the blade to your mouth and deposit the apple slice. 4. Opening a letter. Sure, you could use your finger, but using a knife is just more manly. 5. Weapon. Not the most effective, but it’s better than nothing. 6. Camping. How else will you sharpen the point of a stick in preparation for stabbing your prey? And by prey I mean hot dog. 7. You never know when you’re going to have to MacGyver your way out of a crisis. Be prepared. 8. You need something to clench in your teeth when swinging from a rope. 9. Emergency tracheostomy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #68 May 28, 2014 Quote9. Emergency tracheostomy. 10. Emergency vasectomy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #69 May 28, 2014 yeah.. the USAF Survival knife might be inappropriate for that procedure... but the small penknife packed in the small kit they used to put in the container... would work fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #70 May 28, 2014 BackintotheskySwitzerland is full of guns - how many mass shootings do they have? If you want to make US requirements for gun ownership the SAME as requirements for gun ownership in Switzerland, then go for it. I think you might want to look into what that is though. I have a feeling the NRA isn't going to go for it.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 256 #71 May 28, 2014 Or the UK, or France for that matter.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #72 May 28, 2014 Backintothesky I could go on, but guns ARE NOT the problem in the USA. The American psyche is..... I would say you're wrong on the American psyche being the problem. Every country has their nutbags that should not get their hands on a gun. Wasn't there a mass murder somewhere in Norway a few years back where one guy went bonkers? What we have is a mental illness problem, and it's a world-wide problem."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #73 May 28, 2014 Backintothesky Switzerland is full of guns - how many mass shootings do they have? ignoring any potential cultural differences, it has a population that is 1/40th the size of the US. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #74 May 28, 2014 When it comes to "Well regulated" militias, how do you think our's compares to switzerland? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #75 May 28, 2014 When it comes to "Well regulated" militias, how do you think our's compares to Switzerland? Where would I go to join our militia? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites