Pack of motorcyclists chase man in SUV, attack him on upper Manhattan street after fender bender

[ryoder 1,572]

Updates:

This is the guy who was run over:

"According to Massachusetts Registry records, Mieses was unlicensed and had been ticketed by police 16 times since 1999. His license was suspended until 2017 for being a habitual traffic offender, CBS's Tony Aiello reported."


Also, they want to talk to the two non-bikers who who appear to be helping out in the still photos taken from above in the final scene.

Ref: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/03/police-biker-sought-in-manhattan-motorcycle-melee/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[turtlespeed 212]

ryoder

Updates:

This is the guy who was run over:

"According to Massachusetts Registry records, Mieses was unlicensed and had been ticketed by police 16 times since 1999. His license was suspended until 2017 for being a habitual traffic offender, CBS's Tony Aiello reported."


Also, they want to talk to the two non-bikers who who appear to be helping out in the still photos taken from above in the final scene.

Ref: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/03/police-biker-sought-in-manhattan-motorcycle-melee/

Considering they started with this . . .

Quote

PICTURED: Wealthy couple attacked by wild pack of motorcyclists . . .

Looks like they finally got it right . . .

amily: SUV Driver ‘Faced With Life-Threatening Situation’ In Motorcycle Melee***

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rmsmith 1]

"Arnold Schwarzenegger Driving"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qlLRejdY34

[wolfriverjoe 1,481]

nigel99

Superior force?

Man with gun, woman and kid > group of thugs with guns?

I think you're being idealistic in the outcome. I also think in a hyped situation people in a crowd think 'it won't be me' so they are braver, behave worse.

Bolding mine.

Only up to a point. That's one of the things that make guns very effective in a situation like this.

It's the "pack mentality."
As this situation happened, one of the attackers could hang back a little bit and be reasonably sure he was not in too much danger. So there was no incentive to break off pursuit. The more aggressive ones were right up by the car, but the rest were staying "out of immediate danger."

If the driver of the Range Rover had had a gun available, then anyone could have been targeted, not just the ones close up. So all the attackers are potentially in danger.
And then they usually run for their lives. Even the ones who are armed.

In riot situations, anyone not in the front of the crowd is usually pretty safe. So they have the security and anonymity of the crowd to protect them. Until the guns come out and (again) anyone can get killed.

It's happened a lot of times. There are countless videos of armed robbers turning and running the instant they realize that they are facing an armed "victim."
The same in riot situations. As soon as the mob realizes that they aren't in control, that their target has the ability to kill any of them, they usually cut and run.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[wayneflorida 0]

I'm surprised that the 911 calls have not been released.

[ryoder 1,572]

Individuals ID'd:

Reggie Chance - Pulled driver out of car and led the attack. His lawyer negotiating his surrender.

Kevin Bresloff - The video guy. Interviewed Tuesday night but was not charged.

Ref: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/wife-suv-driver-attacked-bikers-upper-manhattan-issues-statement-terrifying-ordeal-article-1.1475062

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Superior force?

The group had superior force. The guy with a gun would have been superior to him not having one.

I used to teach martial arts.... There is no way in hell I could defend myself against 30 people without being armed. The better my self defense weapon, the better my odds.

Quote

Man with gun, woman and kid > group of thugs with guns?

Again, you are making some assumptions. First that the thugs had guns... A fair assumption. But then you are assuming that the group think mentality would continue after a gun was inserted into the equation.

When guns are drawn, the group mentality changes from "we can easily take him" to "Some of us are going to get shot". Most people do not want to get shot and unless they are combat trained.... They will run.

To quote "the Shootist" John Bernard Books: First of all,friend, there's no one up there shooting back at you. Second, I found most men aren't willing, they bat an eye, or draw a breath before they shoot. I won't.

Quote

I also think in a hyped situation people in a crowd think 'it won't be me' so they are braver, behave worse.

Yep, up until "it gets real" and you might be the one shot. Then a switch flips. A crowd is a dangerous thing... When it goes back to a group of individuals, the steam is taken out of the group quickly.

[nigel99 325]

DaVinci

Quote

Superior force?

The group had superior force. The guy with a gun would have been superior to him not having one.

I used to teach martial arts.... There is no way in hell I could defend myself against 30 people without being armed. The better my self defense weapon, the better my odds.

***Man with gun, woman and kid > group of thugs with guns?

Again, you are making some assumptions. First that the thugs had guns... A fair assumption. But then you are assuming that the group think mentality would continue after a gun was inserted into the equation.

When guns are drawn, the group mentality changes from "we can easily take him" to "Some of us are going to get shot". Most people do not want to get shot and unless they are combat trained.... They will run.

To quote "the Shootist" John Bernard Books: First of all,friend, there's no one up there shooting back at you. Second, I found most men aren't willing, they bat an eye, or draw a breath before they shoot. I won't.

Quote

I also think in a hyped situation people in a crowd think 'it won't be me' so they are braver, behave worse.

Yep, up until "it gets real" and you might be the one shot. Then a switch flips. A crowd is a dangerous thing... When it goes back to a group of individuals, the steam is taken out of the group quickly.

I would genuinely like to see an article (not from a gun magazine or lobby group) that backs up the assertion that a gun will de-escalate a mob.Any academic or military paper would be perfect.

The only group mentality stuff I have ever studied has been to do with skydiving and dangerous sports and what you are saying goes against everything that is understood in those areas, which is why I am curious.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Anvilbrother 0]

I dont think that any single biker from that group would have the balls to do that alone. Its the pack/mob/gang mentality. When they all get together they think what they are doing is ok, and there is less of a chance of getting caught, or a better chance of getting away. Basically THEY ARE PUSSIES, not like hells angels, or some other meth biker gang. Hell about 4 of them ride dirt bikes. I bet a gun out the window would have them scattering as fast as those jap bikes could get them.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[joelgibson 0]

bunch of cowardly group mentality losers of the first degree. How insanely pathetic. They need to have their motorcycles impounded and serve a minimum of 5 years in jail each.

SCR 15113
USPA Coach-C
Hellfish 1004

[ryoder 1,572]

Swell.
There was an undercover NYPD cop among the bikers, who did nothing because..."he didn't want to blow his cover".

http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/undercover-cop-stood-by-as-bikers-beat-dad/


ETA: There were even more cops in the gang: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9274018

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[mik 2]

ryoder

Swell.
There was an undercover NYPD cop among the bikers, who did nothing because..."he didn't want to blow his cover".

http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/undercover-cop-stood-by-as-bikers-beat-dad/


ETA: There were even more cops in the gang: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9274018

Am I the only non-American to be mystified as to why the posts on this thread have immediately ceased once it is known that a number of "America's Finest" were amongst the gang??

Is the the mental stuggle to deal with the automatic hero worship that seems to be associated with "those who serve" in the US apparently being involved in the chase?

Or the knowledge that police officers who presumably were trained in the use of guns, and could possibly have had guns with them, were unable, or not willing, to prevent the situation (as several posters have seemed to indicate would be the case if only a good guy with a gun was present)?


Or something else?

As a non-American, I am genuinely interested in why such a hot topic that provoked some fairly extreme views suddenly ceases to be interesting to the people who previously had very strong opinions on the topic.

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[turtlespeed 212]

mik

***Swell.
There was an undercover NYPD cop among the bikers, who did nothing because..."he didn't want to blow his cover".

http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/undercover-cop-stood-by-as-bikers-beat-dad/


ETA: There were even more cops in the gang: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9274018

Am I the only non-American to be mystified as to why the posts on this thread have immediately ceased once it is known that a number of "America's Finest" were amongst the gang??

Is the the mental stuggle to deal with the automatic hero worship that seems to be associated with "those who serve" in the US apparently being involved in the chase?

Or the knowledge that police officers who presumably were trained in the use of guns, and could possibly have had guns with them, were unable, or not willing, to prevent the situation (as several posters have seemed to indicate would be the case if only a good guy with a gun was present)?


Or something else?

As a non-American, I am genuinely interested in why such a hot topic that provoked some fairly extreme views suddenly ceases to be interesting to the people who previously had very strong opinions on the topic.

I think you are misunderstanding "Hero Worship" for disgust and revulsion.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ryoder 1,572]

Well, I am throughly disgusted that maintaining cover to pursue our asinine drug laws takes precedence over actually stopping violent crime. On the upside, one has had his badge & gun pulled while the incident is being investigated.

This link provides some more info on the perps apprehended so far including a *long* rap sheet on at least one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2446610/Alexian-Lien-Tech-executive-beaten-members-biker-gang-stomped-head.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[OHCHUTE 0]

I ride and these squids don't do us any good. Their conduct was pathetic. They should get the book thrown at them. When I ride I show utmost thoughtfulness to ensure me/ we are viewed favorably.

[jclalor 12]

It was pretty entertaining watching the one guy's spine spine acting like a speed bump.

[futuredivot 0]

I've been watching this play out, popcorn in hand. I've ridden a time or two in a pack There is certain protocol that is followed in a normal formation. This is strictly for the protection of the riders. This was NOT a formation ride. The riders did nearly everything wrong. Having ridden drag and blocked for a pack, distance is your friend and reduce speed slowly and evenly to allow space. Dart and drag is a bad plan. That being said, If the guy had rolled down his window informed everyone that he was calling an ambulance after the first contact, it most likely would have ended without the ass whipping. Once the driver bulldozes and runs, the game changes. You know have more people pissed and a high (ish) speed chase isn't going to calm anyone down. It was a mess from start to finish...not to say I've never charged a cager a mirror tax for doing something stupid..

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[jclalor 12]

I haven't been following this whole thread so excuse me if I missed something. From what I understand, the SUV was surrounded when the bike pulled in front of it and hit his brakes resulting in a minor rear end bump. At this point according to police, the SUV was surrounded by bikers, with some brandishing knives. This is when the SUV took off and performed some spinal manipulation on the thug.

I think if you take part in terrorizing a family who is simply minding their own business, all bets are off. I'm thrilled this guy will spend the rest of his life shitting in a diaper.

[Bignugget 0]

jclalor

I haven't been following this whole thread so excuse me if I missed something. From what I understand, the SUV was surrounded when the bike pulled in front of it and hit his brakes resulting in a minor rear end bump. At this point according to police, the SUV was surrounded by bikers, with some brandishing knives. This is when the SUV took off and performed some spinal manipulation on the thug.

I think if you take part in terrorizing a family who is simply minding their own business, all bets are off. I'm thrilled this guy will spend the rest of his life shitting in a diaper.

Well it knocked the biker off and broke his leg. I don't know that you would be able to tell that immediately but it wasn't just a fender bender as such.

Other than that pretty close.

Also its under debate if the guy who is paralyzed was actually one of the assholes or if he was just friends with the assholes in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Either way no sympathy from me.

As to the cops who were "undercover". The cop wasn't even WORKING. He was just a fucking asshole biker who happened to also be a cop, from what I have seen so far, and then tried to spin it off so he wouldn't get in trouble for doing nothing as his friends committed felony assault in front of him.

Screw that tool also.

[ryoder 1,572]

Bignugget

As to the cops who were "undercover". The cop wasn't even WORKING. He was just a fucking asshole biker who happened to also be a cop, from what I have seen so far, and then tried to spin it off so he wouldn't get in trouble for doing nothing as his friends committed felony assault in front of him.

Screw that tool also.

Now his story (via his lawyer) is that he was following the SUV, but wasn't carrying badge nor gun, and saw nothing. Uh, huh.

http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-undercover-cop-didnt-see-ny-driver-attack-193324651.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[normiss 733]

News outlets are starting to report that the police now have video of one of the undercover cops smashing the rear window on the SUV.

[ryoder 1,572]

normiss

News outlets are starting to report that the police now have video of one of the undercover cops smashing the rear window on the SUV.

So I see:

http://nypost.com/2013/10/07/bike-cop-joined-in-on-suv-beatdown-video-reveals/

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Undercover-NYPD-Cop-Window-Smash-Video-SUV-Biker-Brawl-226892961.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[ryoder 1,572]

And another: http://nypost.com/2013/10/07/bike-cop-joined-in-on-suv-beatdown-video-reveals/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[OHCHUTE 0]

Just what we need, an a-hole cop beating someone. Hear he's lawyer-up.

[ryoder 1,572]

normiss

News outlets are starting to report that the police now have video of one of the undercover cops smashing the rear window on the SUV.

He has been arrested: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/another-biker-arrested-in-manhattan-motorcycle-suv-brawl-due-in-court/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.