Self Defense: Right or Privilege?

[yoink 321]

Gravitymaster

************However, their objective is.

Say what now?
They are both designed to make a hole.

There's a huge difference between a melee and ranged weapon.

Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous. They both are capable of equal objectives which is to make a hole. They are both cordless




Pass.

I can't meet this level of crazy.

[skypuppy 1]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

In Saudi Arabia a man can't be convicted of rape unless their are 2 male witness...

I'm surprised to see you advocating sharia law. Seems somewhat out of character, but what do I know?

Quote

.....And this is where it starts to get convoluted. Who decides which cases are clear cut and when?

The police investigate and decide if the evidence available fits the survivor's story. There might be witnesses, or surveillance video, or forensic evidence that supports the story. Or not. If there is ambiguity, the prosecutor's office, and beyond that the grand jury, decide if charges are warranted.

I don't think we would want a system where the police automatically take the word of the person alleging self defense, and don't even bother to investigate. That just opens the door to people being killed just because someone else "felt skeered" for no good reason. The operative criterion is, would a reasonable person have felt their life was endangered in that situation? The best way to answer that is to ask reasonable people, which in most circumstances means a grand jury or a jury in a trial.

Locally, we had a case where a couple claimed that they had killed a man who had broken into their house, and claimed self defense. The police were skeptical, though, as the deceased had been stabbed and the body was in the front hallway, but there wasn't much blood. Also the guy had been dead a while before police were called. An investigation revealed a large bloodstain on the sidewalk in front of the house, which someone had tried to wash away with a hose. It turned out the guy came to the house to buy drugs, but when he didn't have enough money he grabbed the drugs and tried to run away. The wife caught up to the guy out front and stabbed him, then she and her husband dragged the body into the house and staged the "home invasion". Both the husband and the wife were on probation after serving time for drug dealing.

So, should the police have just taken their word that they were defending themselves? Are you outraged that the police actually checked out their story, and found that it did not hold up?

Don

hmmm. so let's see. In a recent high-profile case, police investigated and the police and the prosecutor decided there was no case to file charges. Enter media and politicians and a 'special prosecutor', who actually somehow manages to bypass a grand jury, since she wouldn't have been able to get them to issue an indictment due to the lack of evidence of any crime, and we have an innocent man imprisoned and dragged through the courts for over a year over something that wasn't a crime in the first place.

So you said all the right things, but then none of them were followed in that case...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[skypuppy 1]

quade

***I'm an American, and I learned about such things as the Kristallnacht. And the events preceeding it, i.e. the laws that were passed to make sure that self-defense was unavailable.

You make a ridiculous false equivalency argument comparing gun ownership of that time and country to this.

Even without additional gun restrictions, the Jews were fucked. It's not like they were big gun owners anyway.ok. and you know that how? Or are you making generalizations about and profiling Jews now?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[quade 3]

Gravitymaster

******Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[yoink 321]

I'll bring the beer and popcorn.

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

*********Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

Neither one of them are dangerous by themselves as neither can jump off a table and cause you harm. However, from close range, both are capable of inflicting similar wounds.

[Bignugget 0]

Gravitymaster

************Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

Neither one of them are dangerous by themselves as neither can jump off a table and cause you harm. However, from close range, both are capable of inflicting similar wounds.


So we agree. They are substitute goods.

Will you now please turn your guns over?

You can have all the cordless drills you want.

I hope the range you normally go to practice at is really really short.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

***************Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

Neither one of them are dangerous by themselves as neither can jump off a table and cause you harm. However, from close range, both are capable of inflicting similar wounds.


So we agree. They are substitute goods.

Will you now please turn your guns over?

You can have all the cordless drills you want.

Why do you want me to turn in my guns? I've never shot anyone.

[Bignugget 0]

Gravitymaster

******************Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

Neither one of them are dangerous by themselves as neither can jump off a table and cause you harm. However, from close range, both are capable of inflicting similar wounds.


So we agree. They are substitute goods.

Will you now please turn your guns over?

You can have all the cordless drills you want.

Why do you want me to turn in my guns? I've never shot anyone.

Efficiency.

The guns could be melted down into more useful items. Right now they can only drill holes of a fixed size and are really obsolete if you think about it.

You can accomplish all the gun does and more with the cordless drill.

The gun doesn't accept multiple bits for lots of different purposes.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

*********************Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

Negative.
Get someone to drill a 9mm hole on your head. Then you can speak from experience.

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

Neither one of them are dangerous by themselves as neither can jump off a table and cause you harm. However, from close range, both are capable of inflicting similar wounds.


So we agree. They are substitute goods.

Will you now please turn your guns over?

You can have all the cordless drills you want.

Why do you want me to turn in my guns? I've never shot anyone.

Efficiency.

The guns could be melted down into more useful items. Right now they can only drill holes of a fixed size and are really obsolete if you think about it.

You can accomplish all the gun does and more with the cordless drill.

The gun doesn't accept multiple bits for lots of different purposes.

That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of groundhogs and possums etc...

[Bignugget 0]

Gravitymaster

That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of groundhogs and possums etc...

6 tools to do the job a cordless drill could handle? That's inefficient. The complete opposite of what I said.

[Boomerdog 0]

Uh...I think you'd best spend some time on the issue of rape because it's a lot more than some horny man getting a piece of @$$ and in too many cases, the victim winds up dead.

Thus IMHO, those who hold to the premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm show a clear depraved deficit of moral clarity. My wife and daughter have been NRA trained in the use of fire arms and both pack heat with a CCW permit.

Self defense IS the first human right!

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

Let's have a duel at 20 paces. Me armed with a S&W 1911 .45. You armed with a drill of your choosing.

I want the drill they used for Deepwater Horizon, then. It will put your 1911 to shame.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

***

That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of groundhogs and possums etc...

6 tools to do the job a cordless drill could handle? That's inefficient. The complete opposite of what I said.

So you think most people only have one drill bit? You think most people only have one way to make a hole? Have you ever heard of a saw? You are pretty funny in your desperation

[tkhayes 154]

You will be in deep shit if the actions you take to defend yourself do not reach the scope of the threat that you are under. I think most courts and juries are OK with 'an eye for an eye'.

Which means if you shoot a guy 6 times for verbally threatening you, it is excessive. If you shoot the guy who has a knife and coming at you, then you are justified.

That is why I state that the amount of force is the privilege and that most people (untrained and ill-equipped) are not really capable of making those type of decisions.

Army Ranger 'Tommy' with a handgun on his person at all times is not likely a threat to society. Assholes like George Zimmerman with a handgun at all times IS actually a threat to society.

They both have the 'right'. They both do not even come close to having the training or decision making capability.

[Bignugget 0]

Gravitymaster

******

That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of groundhogs and possums etc...

6 tools to do the job a cordless drill could handle? That's inefficient. The complete opposite of what I said.

So you think most people only have one drill bit? You think most people only have one way to make a hole? Have you ever heard of a saw? You are pretty funny in your desperation

You have confused your own analogy.

The cordless drill is the gun in your analogy.

I think most people only have one cordless drill.

The cordless drill is a versatile tool capable of multiple uses including drilling holes, screwing screws, sanding, grinding, apparently to end life, and I am sure many other things.

Unlike the gun which is only capable of being used to end life.

Thus, there is no need for a gun since the cordless drill can handle itself in a duel any day of the week. As you clearly asserted.

Try to at least keep your own analogy flowing properly.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Pass.

I can't meet this level of crazy.

Actually, I think this is his point concerning those who have an irrational fear of guns

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Guns only end lives?

shit then


all of mine must be broken

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Bignugget

*********

That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of groundhogs and possums etc...

6 tools to do the job a cordless drill could handle? That's inefficient. The complete opposite of what I said.

So you think most people only have one drill bit? You think most people only have one way to make a hole? Have you ever heard of a saw? You are pretty funny in your desperation

You have confused your own analogy.

The cordless drill is the gun in your analogy.

I think most people only have one cordless drill.

The cordless drill is a versatile tool capable of multiple uses including drilling holes, screwing screws, sanding, grinding, apparently to end life, and I am sure many other things.

Unlike the gun which is only capable of being used to end life.

Thus, there is no need for a gun since the cordless drill can handle itself in a duel any day of the week. As you clearly asserted.

Try to at least keep your own analogy flowing properly.

You might try reading up thread where I stated they are not the same. Please try and keep up.

[Stumpy 256]

yoink

***************However, their objective is.

Say what now?
They are both designed to make a hole.

There's a huge difference between a melee and ranged weapon.

Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous. They both are capable of equal objectives which is to make a hole. They are both cordless




Pass.

I can't meet this level of crazy.

Ditto. And crazy is probably a complimentary word for this.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Gravitymaster 0]

Stumpy

******************However, their objective is.

Say what now?
They are both designed to make a hole.

There's a huge difference between a melee and ranged weapon.

Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous. They both are capable of equal objectives which is to make a hole. They are both cordless




Pass.

I can't meet this level of crazy.

Ditto. And crazy is probably a complimentary word for this.
More likely you just can't understand the point.

[Darius11 12]

It is a natural right to protected your life. This right is given to every living creature from the sec. they come in to the world.

For all other situations and scenarios this comes to mind.

“I rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6”

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[turtlespeed 212]

>>>That's why it's important to own a variety of guns. Shotguns for home >>>security, .45 for personal protection, Ak47 and a couple of AR15s to ward >>>off an oppressive government, .22 for plinking and varmint control of >>>groundhogs and possums etc...
That is good in theory.
With proper training and continued education, it is the best option available.

>>>6 tools to do the job a cordless drill could handle? That's inefficient. The >>>complete opposite of what I said.
It's so difficult to sink to your level of consciousness sometimes it is frustrating and humorous.

>>>So you think most people only have one drill bit? You think most people >>>only have one way to make a hole? Have you ever heard of a saw? You >>>are pretty funny in your desperation.
This line of analogy is unproductive.

>>>You have confused your own analogy.

>>>The cordless drill is the gun in your analogy.

>>>I think most people only have one cordless drill.

>>>The cordless drill is a versatile tool capable of multiple uses including >>>drilling holes, screwing screws, sanding, grinding, apparently to end life, >>>and I am sure many other things.

The main use of a firearm is as a deterrent. Once you accept that, then you can join in a reasonable conversation with the rest of the world. Unless you do, you are just spinning your wheels.

>>>Unlike the gun which is only capable of being used to end life.
Again. It is not the sole purpose of a firearm. Gun is too generic, unless you are against BB Guns, and Air Soft Giuns, and Rubber Band Guns as well.

>>>Thus, there is no need for a gun since the cordless drill can handle itself in >>>a duel any day of the week. As you clearly asserted.

Yes, yes, absolutely, I 'll duel you with an airsoft gun and you have a screw gun. First hit winns. We start from 10 yards away.

>>>Try to at least keep your own analogy flowing properly.

Try to stay rooted in reality. Your ideas are so far out there I wonder if they are still on the third planet from Sol.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jakee 1,280]

Gravitymaster

Both a drill and a hand gun are equally dangerous.

I challenge you to a duel! You choose the place, I'll choose the weapons.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,280]

Quote

You might try reading up thread where I stated they are not the same.

No, guns and cordless drills are not the same, but they're both equally useful for home improvements.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?