Combat veteran with "infidel" tattoo asked to leave Florida DZ

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

Quote

I just read on a Facebook page the story of a skydiver and disabled Iraq war veteran about that he was asked to cover his tattoo that in arabic reads as infidel from the DZ management because at the same time there was a Qatar group of skydivers training there whom they got offended.
The DZ is Florida Skydive Lake Wales.

As a Iraq war veteran AND American AND skydiver I feel really offended about the behavior of this DZ.
If you share my feelings, please let the DZ knows that you do not accept this kind of behavior.
What are your thoughts?

Here's the link of the story: http://www.adventuresofabrokensoldier.com/1/post/2013/04/wed-apr-3-2013.html

Eh, no one goes to Lake wales anyway. The Qatar crew has to migrate from DZ to DZ because no one wants to put up with them more than once.

Aren't the Qataris the same crew that were being dickheads at Skydive Arizona walking across the swoop LZ with swoopers coming in? There was a thread several weeks ago about that.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Remster 24]

For someone who wasn't there, you sure know a lot.

Remster

[Andy9o8 0]

I'll go on record as saying that, on balance, I agree with all of Madison's post #26, including the snip of post #18 that he quoted.

That being said, it does seem that the Qataris are getting a reputation that's starting to follow them, if not precede them, as being annoying guests.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

Theoretical question: What if the disabled vet in question had instead worn a shirt that said "I fuck on the first date." If management asked him to take it off would people be equally upset?

It bothers me everyone wants to focus on the fact he is a vet and his tattoo could be viewed as religious/political. The real issue at hand, is the DZ felt it was offensive to other customers. I am not picking a side, i am just curious as to what others think of this and why it's not being looked at in this light?

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[normiss 622]

Nice to see the DZ supports the First Amendment.


Personally, they are our guests HERE. So they should expect us to want THEM to behave accordingly.
Just like when we wear their shoes.

Trying to accommodate customers on religious beliefs is sure to exclude other customers. As long as Betty is good with that, good luck to them.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Nice to see the DZ supports the First Amendment.


Personally, they are our guests HERE. So they should expect us to want THEM to behave accordingly.
Just like when we wear their shoes.

Trying to accommodate customers on religious beliefs is sure to exclude other customers. As long as Betty is good with that, good luck to them.

They weren't just accommodating customers on religious beliefs. As noted in the companion thread, this guy's tat is INTENDED as a deliberate "fuck you" to every Muslim who reads it. A private business in the US has the right to deem otherwise First Amendment-protected conduct disruptive and tell people to stop acting like an asshole or leave the premises. People who pick fights tend to get them.

[normiss 622]

Welcome to the First Amendment.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Welcome to the First Amendment.

Seriously? OK, thanks for the education; it's all new to me.

Please read the actual text of the First Amendment.

[BillyVance 34]

Quote

For someone who wasn't there, you sure know a lot.

No, I wasn't there. My opinion came from this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=4440314;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Of course, the saying goes you can't believe everything that gets posted on the internet...

So... since you're at Eloy, any truth to the OP's complaints?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[GoneCodFishing 23]

I serve my country by keeping the streets clean of rubbish and paying taxes so they can be spent for people to go turkey-shooting in warm exotic middle east locations.

I have the other week broken a nail while doing my duty for my country, and have also received the "employee of the month" award back in 2010.

Yet last weekend i was refused entry at a fashionable club in the strip because i was wearing my Nike Air Max and hadn't shaved for a week, plus i admit it was a bit longer since i last had a shower, and my t-shirt said "Obama takes it up the ass". What was that all about?

I expect preferential treatment and nothing less for all i'm doing for my country, and this unpatriotic, un-american outlet has let the country down for not allowing me my right to openly offend everybody else in the establishment.

This wouldn't have happened under Reagan

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I serve my country by keeping the streets clean of rubbish and paying taxes so they can be spent for people to go turkey-shooting in warm exotic middle east locations.

I have the other week broken a nail while doing my duty for my country, and have also received the "employee of the month" award back in 2010.

Yet last weekend i was refused entry at a fashionable club in the strip because i was wearing my Nike Air Max and hadn't saved for a week, plus i admit it was a bit longer since i last had a shower, and my t-shirt said "Obama takes it up the ass". What was that all about?

I expect preferential treatment and nothing less for all i'm doing for my country, and this unpatriotic, un-american outlet has let the country down for not allowing me my right to openly offend everybody else in the establishment.

This wouldn't have happened under Reagan

I would have let you in

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Fine. Go to Saudi and behave like an American.
See where that gets you.

[Remster 24]

Could it have happened? Sure!

Any truth to it? Sure! Even Airspeed makes the tram wait when they are doing back to back to backs.

Did I see it happen? No.

Hell, when we train 8way, we're usually the 1st group out at 13k, and we sometimes have people yelling at us because the light is green, when waiting to be even remotely close to the spot. We have about a combined 10,000 jumps at Eloy looking out the door, so maybe we are douches too for holding everyone back and hosing everyone's spot.


Moral of the story: don't spread stories you know nothing about.

Remster

[Squeak 17]

Quote

so maybe we are douches too for holding everyone back and hosing everyone's spot.

.

NO! it's because you're French Canadian See you in 2 weeks

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[gofastfrance 0]

The most interesting part about all this is that tons of fellow skydivers start a huge hate campaign against a dz, potentially causing financial damage beyond repair etc....
without even waiting for a statement by the DZ.
Even gear manufacturers chiming in.

As if some blogpost of a single guy would be the undisputable truth, only because he is a decorated vet.
I know decorated vets that i wouldn't even trust an inch.
Especially a person seeking for donations to write a book on his blog.

Not saying it didn't happen... but how can someone just unquestioningly believe a story that wasn't reported by a third party but by an obviously pissed off customer.

Some people should breathe through there noses for a minute.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Fine. Go to Saudi and behave like an American.
See where that gets you.

Irrelevant.

(Not trying to be smug; but that's what it is.)

[mirage62 0]

The basic "statement" from the dz is that it didn't happen....that they were on a weather hold all day, that he was ask NICELY about he tat and then left shortly after.....so there story is that he made the entire thing up.

I find some posting on Tee shirts about Obama to be highly offensive .... but of course I just shrug and let it go.

The visiting Muslim shouldn't be treat special... BUT THEY WILL BE because they are spending a lot of money. I can understand that. I don't have to agree with it but as a small business owner you make decisions. Some are wrong. If what was reported is true than I believe the dz made a bad one.

I'll watch wait and read but unless I see something that changes my mind I'll never go back to lake wales.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[normiss 622]

Not to me.

I think we all should behave respectfully of the country we are visiting. While not expecting them to accommodate religious idiocies. Like this one.

But that's me. I understand the business owner perspective as well.

[Andy9o8 0]

It's irrelevant to the narrow point of what the 1st Amendment is, and is not.

[normiss 622]

The free speech or freedom of expression?
Because the supremes have found some interesting places to extend it to.
Burning flags, NOT yelling fire in public, naked beavers with objects on the front page of magazines.....


Come to think of it. Infidel would piss me off too. This is a crazy country.

Thanks for forcing me to see that! AHHH! My eyes!!!

[airdvr 198]

So that's what it's down to these days? When did jumpers become such PC pussies? It's getting embarrassing.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[OHCHUTE 0]

RED FLAG: "Please donate"." Oh it's all about eyeballs and driving traffic to a website, and little to do with any story. Never before in the history of human kind could one make money from their computer. A little controversy a little spice, makes making money OH so nice.

Same story, replicated millions of times only adds to the pushing of the donate button.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Quote

All I'm saying is that you can't make a conscious decision to display a potentially offensive tattoo and be surprised when people are offended. The tattoo is little more than a taunt and he got exactly what he was looking for.. a reaction.

EXACTLY. Thank You.

(I asked for a loved ones reaction to this. He is in the Military & also a skydiver serving overseas right now. Been serving 20yrs. )

"The Military doesn't train it's soldiers to act like whiney bitches. A real soldier would have said,"Yes, Ma'am" instead of trashing a DZ.

I also know alot of people who came overseas, never saw action, and choose to use their Military status to bitch about everything for the rest of their lives and think they are entitled to free shit everywhere they go..they are an embarrassment to the Military, because the few bitching give us all a bad name. No wonder we are treated like crap when we get home.

If this is the kind of shit that infuriates this guy I wonder how he got through any type of deployment at all. I give people more shit during our morning shit than this DZ did.

I value being a skydiver. We get to put all our differences aside and all be bonded by the beauty of it. I don't want to go to any DZ where some pansy ass U.S.ex-soldier gets all butt hurt because he can't set his differences aside.

He wanted a reaction, that's what he got. Be a f*cking man about it, not a F*ckin pussy! Or just leave the DZ if you don't like they way they run it. The more places to jump, the better. The more pansy-ass butt hurt people that aren't at a DZ, the better.

I have some very good friends from Qatar. I understand and respect their culture because I'm smart and a decent guy. My Military status doesn't give me the right to be a f*ckin prick every where I go.
This country would do better to realize we all get freedom of speech no matter where you are from. It's what we fight for and what makes this country great. Don't like people excercising their right to speak up? Only you get freedom, not anyone else?
Man up & STFU asshole."
(end of letter,name left out intentionally)
I agree with him.

^This.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Darius11 12]

This is America and you have the right to say what you want however if I get a tattoo that says NIGGERS on my forehead and there is a group of African Americans at the DZ I am sure I would be asked the same, and yes I would be an ASS HOLE.


We also need to get over this idea that because someone is a member of the troops they are impervious to criticism, wrong doing, or that they can't be an ass hole.
Life is not a Disney film.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[BillyVance 34]

Well the DZO did respond to a post on facebook. Seems that the veteran wasn't telling the whole story, or there are two sides to the story:

Quote

It gives me a heavy heart to ever think that anyone that know us would think we would be disrespectful to anyone form any country. This is a neutral place for all walks of the world to come to and enjoy. The story was not the whole truth in his statement. Betty
Yesterday afternoon we had an issue with a tattoo and the Qatar General bought it to our attention and that it was very offensive to him and to the other Qatar’s that were here. So manifest said she would ask Eddie to come talk to me about it. I asked Eddie if he had something to wear to cover it up while he was here and he said he did not, I said maybe a piece of tape or a little duct would work. Then he proceeded to say well maybe I will go over to Tampa Bay or somewhere to jump and I said then that was your choice to leave. He left my office and nothing else was said until we start getting slanderous phone calls and the facebook and social media began. He was “never” asked to leave. He volunteered to leave on his own.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban