skypuppy 1 #26 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteGiven how much the cop story has been changing....hmmm. Not so sure they are believable in this case. Much like Zimmerman. Quote should have video for everything. I mostly agree. Z's story hasn't really changed.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #27 July 20, 2012 QuoteZ's story hasn't really changed. That's been refuted above.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #28 July 20, 2012 I wouldn't wake up at 1h30 AM or I wouldn't be home yet. or I'd give them my phone with VirginBurner drunk-dialing.. and then they'd shoot me scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #29 July 20, 2012 Pull a firearm on the Police and expect to get shot. Sounds like a cluster fuck all round.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #30 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteZimmerman has not changed his story one bit. George Zimmerman’s Story Continues To Shift I suspect spending more than ten seconds on the search (that's about all I spent) would probably yield other sources and/or examples. Wow... that site is really, really stretching to say Zimmerman is shifting his story.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #31 July 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteZimmerman has not changed his story one bit. George Zimmerman’s Story Continues To Shift I suspect spending more than ten seconds on the search (that's about all I spent) would probably yield other sources and/or examples. Wow... that site is really, really stretching to say Zimmerman is shifting his story. It probably seems that way to anyone who has already convinced themselves that he is innocent.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #32 July 20, 2012 No, more likely the biased writing and the fact that THAT SITE is the sole location on the interwebs with such a perspective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #33 July 20, 2012 >Zimmerman has not changed his story one bit. Well, he initially said that Martin ran. Now he's saying he didn't. I'd call that changing his story a bit. Doesn't mean he's guilty, of course - just that he's changing his story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bertt 0 #34 July 20, 2012 "...the safest way to answer the door at 1:30 a.m." Actually, I can answer that. A stranger knocked on my door at 3:00 a.m. recently. I looked out the window, saw someone I didn't know, and called the cops. I didn't go to the door, but watched the person and kept the dispatcher informed. Turns out the cops were already looking for the guy, who ran into the backyard when cops approached. Cops with a dog caught him in a neighbor's backyard about ten minutes later.You don't have to outrun the bear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #35 July 20, 2012 I recently got a knock on my door at 3am. I grabbed my pistol, released the safety and went downstairs. Before opening the door I said "who is it". They said "Police". With my gun still in my hand, I opened the door with chain on it and saw it was them. I closed the door, put my gun in a drawer and then opened the door. I'm having a hard time understanding why someone would open the door quickly and immediately shove a gun in the face of someone without verifying who it is. So either the cops are full of shit, or this guy was afraid of something or someone for some reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #36 July 20, 2012 I will never understand opening the door when the cops says "It's the police!". I call 911 while asking if they have a warrant for this address and who's name is on it. I don't talk to cops. I can't trust them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #37 July 20, 2012 QuoteI don't talk to cops. I can't trust them. I agree. But I also recognize that it's suicidal to point guns at them.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #38 July 20, 2012 Agreed. I'm not sure that happened in this case though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #39 July 22, 2012 Agreed. Cops should HAVE to identify themselves, at least when asked. I like the idea about calling 911 to confirm.... I would probably inform them that I was armed, and until I had proof that they had a warrant, would open fire if anybody kicked the door down.... Nobody better kick my door down and expect to live LOL. Cops who do not provide proof, or at the very least announce who they are, are simply strangers with guns.... If I looked out the window or door peep hole and saw someone who looked plain clothed and had a gun in their hands, I would probably shoot first. Police NEED to make it clear... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #40 July 22, 2012 I don't talk to cops. I can't trust them. i agree. and certain State Troopers are damn well, "So Sure of themselves, and their 'suspicions'...." as to become real PITAs....BUT,,,, i DO know of at least ONE guy,,,a Sheriff in Rural GA..... i believe,,,,,who was a decent guy....when he mightta had a reason to be a real prick.........due to "a preponderence of the evidence"......and instead did NoT..... ...But ONLY that ONE guy!!!!as to this issue...in todays times, when cops OFTEN have the Wrong address, and incorrect "information" etc etc... the idea to stay put, get to a phone, call 911 and Verify what the heck is going on.... IS the best choice... lets be careful out there... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jinlee 0 #41 July 22, 2012 I had a cop knock on the door once this late. I awoke and thought it was a dream or one of those reason you wake up and then see it was a text message that woke you up.... 5 minutes later. LEO returned then in the daytime and I was wearing headphones plugged into alptop watching a movie. Never heard the knock on the door. What was odd was at once point there was an "investigators" business card left on my vehicle parked in the driveway of a nice residential house. Finally 3rd time daytime and I answer the door. LEO was furious, somewhat irrationally so but cops are like that... really arrogant. Turns out. An associate, boyfriend, whatever, previous tenant was in possession of a vehicle which was reported stolen. There were the investigators looking for the car (repo company) and then the cops looking to serve a warrant on the guy. A simple phone call to the property owner of record which is readably accessible information. An investigator would have learned that the new tenant was not the person anyone was looking for.. I was the new tenant. That was a creepy 2-3 week period. I felt like "Dog the Bounty Hunter" was going to roll up next. I became fearful of open the door at anytime. 1:30AM I would never open the door. I can talk on the phone just fine. An arrogant point the LEO made was in the event of a Jet crashing and/or homes being on fire I am required to open my door whenever LEO knock. Were a commercial jet to crash me remaining in my burning house due to knock on the door seemed unreasonable. Also to many home invasion robberies are not news worthy stories. They happen a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #42 July 23, 2012 The guy was stupid as hell for opening the door. The head of this team and the shooter should lose their jobs and share a manslaughter charge. There is a reason that they are supposed to identify themselves. That would be to protect the Innocent. Protect & Serve, they did a piss poor job of protecting this guy. But at least the real criminal is still alive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #43 July 23, 2012 QuoteEver answer your front door while armed??? No; I'm usually just glad to see them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #44 July 23, 2012 QuoteHow is it different from Zimmerman "standing his ground"? This comment of yours might explain a bunch about you. 1. This was a cop.... They are not like civilians and have a completely different set of rules applied to them when in the line of duty. 2. This has nothing whatsoever with SYG. Is this the best you can do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #45 July 23, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow is it different from Zimmerman "standing his ground"? This comment of yours might explain a bunch about you. 1. This was a cop.... They are not like civilians and have a completely different set of rules applied to them when in the line of duty. 2. This has nothing whatsoever with SYG. Is this the best you can do? Like it or not, law enforcement tends to have more latitude than civilians when it comes to using deadly force. Do you know of any jurisdiction in which a cop, when faced with someone pointing at him a gun that he reasonably believes to be functional and loaded, does not have the right to shoot that person? In what situations do you believe a civilian in Florida would be justified in shooting someone under SYG, but am on-duty cop in an identical situation would not?Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #46 July 23, 2012 Quote Like it or not, law enforcement tends to have more latitude than civilians when it comes to using deadly force. Do you know of any jurisdiction in which a cop, when faced with someone pointing at him a gun that he reasonably believes to be functional and loaded, does not have the right to shoot that person? It's a mixed bag. In most states the civilian is measured by what would a reasonable person do in the situation. Cops are trained and have a somewhat higher standard. On the other hand, the testimony of the LEO is taken at face value more quickly than that of a civilian. As you note, they are given considerable latitude for the fact that they must enter bad situations, don't have the same option (or duty) to retreat. He can flat out lie and get away with it, though probably not more than twice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #47 July 24, 2012 QuoteIt's a mixed bag. In most states the civilian is measured by what would a reasonable person do in the situation. Cops are trained and have a somewhat higher standard. Just not trained enough to recognize their son before they shoot them dead. Or not trained enough to put the gun away when you've been drinking. Or maybe indeed trained enough to know he might get away with murder. http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-police-captain-mistakenly-shoots-son/story?id=16837822 (what is it with LEO who want to be bikers, with the 3-piece patch and the MC cube?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #48 July 24, 2012 QuoteLike it or not, law enforcement tends to have more latitude than civilians when it comes to using deadly force. They also have a higher standard when using that force. And you are just ignoring that simple fact that since this was a cop, SYG does not in anyway apply. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #49 July 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt's a mixed bag. In most states the civilian is measured by what would a reasonable person do in the situation. Cops are trained and have a somewhat higher standard. Just not trained enough to recognize their son before they shoot them dead. Or not trained enough to put the gun away when you've been drinking. Or maybe indeed trained enough to know he might get away with murder. I think you're trying to hammer in a screw here, with a story that has little bearing. A retired LEO is what we refer to as a civilian. Drunkeness further differentiates him from an on duty cop. Until they decide to charge him or not, it's not an appropriate anecdote for the discussion. Cops or civilians that fall outside their guidelines get punished for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #50 July 24, 2012 QuoteQuoteLike it or not, law enforcement tends to have more latitude than civilians when it comes to using deadly force. They also have a higher standard when using that force. And you are just ignoring that simple fact that since this was a cop, SYG does not in anyway apply. I see you conveniently ignored both of my questions: Do you know of any jurisdiction in which a cop, when faced with someone pointing at him a gun that he reasonably believes to be functional and loaded, does not have the right to shoot that person? In what situations do you believe a civilian in Florida would be justified in shooting someone under SYG, but an on-duty cop in an identical situation would not? Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
