FBI Annual Crime Statistics for 2011

[JohnRich 4]

News:

FBI Releases Preliminary Annual Crime Statistics for 2011

"According to the FBI’s Preliminary Annual Uniform Crime Report released today, the nation experienced a 4.0 percent decrease in the number of violent crimes and a 0.8 percent decline in the number of property crimes in 2011 when compared with data from 2010..."

Full story: FBI

That makes it down about 45% over the last 20 years. Despite the spread of gun carry laws, the expiration of the assault weapon ban, and many other doomsday trends by the gun-o-phobes. I guess they were wrong...

[linebckr83 3]

I've never understood the anti-gun stuff as a way to reduce violent crime. If I wanted to kill someone, and guns were banned, it'd make no difference.

1. Someone who is ready to commit murder couldn't give 2 shits about gun laws. They'd still use one if available.

2. If guns miraculously disappeared and were never to be seen again, a murderer would go grab a knife, bow and arrow, ice pick, whatever works.

I have avoided a lot of confrontations with people out of fear that they are carrying a weapon when I'm not. I don't know if they were, but I wasnt gonna find out. If guns were banned, I'd expect to see a rise in violent crime because the thugs know the innocent law-abiding person certaintly isn't carrying one anymore.

For the average person, its a defensive mechanism. For the criminal, its just 1 of many tools in their bag.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[Marinus 0]

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If guns were banned, I'd expect to see a rise in violent crime because the thugs know the innocent law-abiding person certaintly isn't carrying one anymore.

It doesn't really matter what you would expect, but statistics do matter and show that the gun violence in the US of A is much, much higher than anywhere else in the Western World. I'm not against private ownership of guns, but the average American gun laws are just moronic. Not that I care, there's enough Americans so we can afford to loose some of you to the epic fail AKA the right to bear arms for absolutely everyone.

[mnealtx 0]

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If guns were banned, I'd expect to see a rise in violent crime because the thugs know the innocent law-abiding person certaintly isn't carrying one anymore.

It doesn't really matter what you would expect, but statistics do matter and show that the gun violence in the US of A is much, much higher than anywhere else in the Western World. I'm not against private ownership of guns, but the average American gun laws are just moronic. Not that I care, there's enough Americans so we can afford to loose some of you to the epic fail AKA the right to bear arms for absolutely everyone.

European views of American gun laws are moronic. It's a *criminal* issue, not the tool that is used.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[MNM604 0]

UCRs are basically garbage and are not reliable. Most agencies will "adjust" their reports and stats to reflect lower or higher charges crimes on what they are trying to show. I am even aware of one agency that had a secretary who would go into the all non-charged reports at the end of the year and simply remove the penal code section to change the report to a basic "documentation." Thenthe city council could tell everyone how great the department was doing in lowering violent crimes..... Just as easy to overload charges as well to make it seem that crime is going up.

[rushmc 18]

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UCRs are basically garbage and are not reliable. Most agencies will "adjust" their reports and stats to reflect lower or higher charges crimes on what they are trying to show. I am even aware of one agency that had a secretary who would go into the all non-charged reports at the end of the year and simply remove the penal code section to change the report to a basic "documentation." Thenthe city council could tell everyone how great the department was doing in lowering violent crimes..... Just as easy to overload charges as well to make it seem that crime is going up.

So, the data is cooked? Kind of like Obama's Dept of Labor and the un-employment info?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,644]

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UCRs are basically garbage and are not reliable. Most agencies will "adjust" their reports and stats to reflect lower or higher charges crimes on what they are trying to show. I am even aware of one agency that had a secretary who would go into the all non-charged reports at the end of the year and simply remove the penal code section to change the report to a basic "documentation." Thenthe city council could tell everyone how great the department was doing in lowering violent crimes..... Just as easy to overload charges as well to make it seem that crime is going up.

So, the data is cooked? Kind of like Obama's Dept of Labor and the un-employment info?

More like Bush's WMD evidence

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[winsor 187]

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UCRs are basically garbage and are not reliable. Most agencies will "adjust" their reports and stats to reflect lower or higher charges crimes on what they are trying to show. I am even aware of one agency that had a secretary who would go into the all non-charged reports at the end of the year and simply remove the penal code section to change the report to a basic "documentation." Thenthe city council could tell everyone how great the department was doing in lowering violent crimes..... Just as easy to overload charges as well to make it seem that crime is going up.

So, the data is cooked? Kind of like Obama's Dept of Labor and the un-employment info?

More like Bush's WMD evidence

Look, Saddam Hussein had WMDs and we have the receipts to prove it.

[linebckr83 3]

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If guns were banned, I'd expect to see a rise in violent crime because the thugs know the innocent law-abiding person certaintly isn't carrying one anymore.

It doesn't really matter what you would expect, but statistics do matter and show that the gun violence in the US of A is much, much higher than anywhere else in the Western World. I'm not against private ownership of guns, but the average American gun laws are just moronic. Not that I care, there's enough Americans so we can afford to loose some of you to the epic fail AKA the right to bear arms for absolutely everyone.

Not every American has a right to bear arms. Felons are not allowed to own or carry a firearm. Does that stop all of them? Of course not.

A buddy of mine used to live in england and was a bouncer at a club there. He now does security here in the states. He said its a totally different environment. Across the pond, most people fight with their hands. So I have to agree with gun violence being higher here.

Having said that, I personally think its the society of America that influences violent crime, not the ability to carry a gun. Like I said, ban guns and the same people will find something else to kill people with.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[dontlikemustard 0]

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Like I said, ban guns and the same people will find something else to kill people with.

Except that guns make it much, much easier to kill someone. I can assure you most of the population couldn't kill me if they came at me with a knife. Different story with a gun.

Its not necessarily the intent to kill that scares me but rather how they do it.

Before you start calling me a libtard I just want to let you know that im not against guns, I'm even planning on buying my first handgun pretty soon. Its fun, but like skydiving, its fucking dangerous.

And unlike skydiving, any demented moron can drop a couple of bills and get into the hobby.

That being said, this chart is rather misleading. There are many more factors involved with the increase or decrease in violent crimes, many of which may not even involve firearms being present. For all we know NOT regulating firearms could have made things worst.

[kelpdiver 2]

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For all we know NOT regulating firearms could have made things worst.

No, that's the one thing we pretty much know to be false. So many states have moved to easy CCW, so many more guns have been sold, with none of the negative predictions coming to be. It's a lot harder proving the beneficial value, but there's nothing there to support negative costs.

But the factors you're looking for start with the size of the young male population. When it goes down, so does crime. And vice versa.

[linebckr83 3]

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Except that guns make it much, much easier to kill someone.

And much much easier for someone to protect themselves.

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I can assure you most of the population couldn't kill me if they came at me with a knife.

And with that statement, I'm guessing I probably couldn't defend myself from you if you had a knife. Which is why I'd prefer to have a higher level of protection.

I agree, but my point wasn't about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun. I was only stating that if guns were banned, anyone intending to use one for criminal acts don't give a shit about guns laws. They'll use one anyway. The general population, who abides by the law and only desires to have a gun to protect them and their family, now does not have that possibility. So the same criminals have the same guns, everyone else has none. I wonder what that would do to the violent crime numbers.

If everyone walking around a grocery store was carrying a conceiled firearm, do you think a thug is going to pick that place to rob? If he knew no one in there had anything to defend themselves with, he'd be much more likely to target that place.

That's why I think those "no guns allowed" signs on the entrance doors to banks are a joke. For the same reason. "Oh, well I better not take my 9 mil into the bank while I hold it up, they aren't allowed. Guess I'll just take a knife." That guy doesn't care that they aren't allowed, but he knows none of those people standing in line are carrying. It should say "PLEASE bring your legal conceiled weapons in with you, maybe the next thug who thinks about robbing this place will think twice."

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[rehmwa 2]

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Like I said, ban guns and the same people will find something else to kill people with.

Except that guns make it much, much easier to kill someone.

"Made you feel it did he? They say the 2nd one is much" BANG!!! topple

"Yes, ....quite"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[dontlikemustard 0]

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For all we know NOT regulating firearms could have made things worst.

No, that's the one thing we pretty much know to be false. So many states have moved to easy CCW, so many more guns have been sold, with none of the negative predictions coming to be. It's a lot harder proving the beneficial value, but there's nothing there to support negative costs.

But the factors you're looking for start with the size of the young male population. When it goes down, so does crime. And vice versa.

Good points, I was just trying to make a statement that anything can attribute to changing crime rates. Guess that one was a bad example.

[dontlikemustard 0]

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And with that statement, I'm guessing I probably couldn't defend myself from you if you had a knife. Which is why I'd prefer to have a higher level of protection.

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I agree, but my point wasn't about how easy it is to kill someone with a gun. I was only stating that if guns were banned, anyone intending to use one for criminal acts don't give a shit about guns laws. They'll use one anyway. The general population, who abides by the law and only desires to have a gun to protect them and their family, now does not have that possibility. So the same criminals have the same guns, everyone else has none. I wonder what that would do to the violent crime numbers.

This is exactly why I am not against banning firearms. We are way too deep into this mess and there are too many weapons out there for us to even possibly regulate such legislation. That being said, I also think guns are a part of our culture, its better to let things be. If you want to protect yourself at home with a gun there is nothing wrong with that.

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If everyone walking around a grocery store was carrying a conceiled firearm, do you think a thug is going to pick that place to rob? If he knew no one in there had anything to defend themselves with, he'd be much more likely to target that place.

That's why I think those "no guns allowed" signs on the entrance doors to banks are a joke. For the same reason. "Oh, well I better not take my 9 mil into the bank while I hold it up, they aren't allowed. Guess I'll just take a knife." That guy doesn't care that they aren't allowed, but he knows none of those people standing in line are carrying. It should say "PLEASE bring your legal conceiled weapons in with you, maybe the next thug who thinks about robbing this place will think twice."

[mnealtx 0]

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But this is where I disagree with you. I don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun. I don't believe in vigilante law. It is unregulated and dangerous.

So you're the 'non-average Joe'? Mad skillz?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[dontlikemustard 0]

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But this is where I disagree with you. I don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun. I don't believe in vigilante law. It is unregulated and dangerous.

So you're the 'non-average Joe'? Mad skillz?

Even if I am not, I have no intentions of walking around town with a gun.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Even if I am not, I have no intentions of walking around town with a gun.[/reply

Can we get you to wear a sign "Unarmed Victim Here!" ?

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[mnealtx 0]

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But this is where I disagree with you. I don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun. I don't believe in vigilante law. It is unregulated and dangerous.

So you're the 'non-average Joe'? Mad skillz?

Even if I am not, I have no intentions of walking around town with a gun.

Why not? Why is it ok to protect yourself within your home but not in public?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[christelsabine 1]

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But this is where I disagree with you. I don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun. I don't believe in vigilante law. It is unregulated and dangerous.

So you're the 'non-average Joe'? Mad skillz?

Even if I am not, I have no intentions of walking around town with a gun.

Why not? Why is it ok to protect yourself within your home but not in public?

Holy Jesus

You (?) and JR and some others really seem to live a particularly violent world, Jesus Christ!

In your (other) words: The USoA is too dangerous, violent, deadly .... to walk around in a town w/o a gun.

Heaven, thanks God I live in another world.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[SkyDekker 1,140]

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I've never understood the anti-gun stuff as a way to reduce violent crime. If I wanted to kill someone, and guns were banned, it'd make no difference.

1. Someone who is ready to commit murder couldn't give 2 shits about gun laws. They'd still use one if available.

2. If guns miraculously disappeared and were never to be seen again, a murderer would go grab a knife, bow and arrow, ice pick, whatever works.

This is usually the argument that gets me labelled as anti gun. However, I simply do not agree with your logic or how it is used to support your position.

The easier you make something to do, the more it will happen. However, doesn't matter how hard you make something, somebody will eventually do it. That, however does not mean one should not try to make unwanted behaviour harder to achieve.

Those determined to kill will always be able to kill. However, IMHO, there is no debate that a gun as a tool makes killing easier than other easily available, affordable and portable tools.

There are most certainly crimes of opportunity and crimes of passion. Crimes which are not necessarily pre-meditated, but facilitated by the ease by which they can be committed. Guns play a role in that process, since they are a very effective affordable, available, and portable tool. Obviously, they are a great tool for self-defence for the same reason.

Simply stated, not every murderer would have been a murderer without the fire arm as a tool.

[mnealtx 0]

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In your (other) words: The USoA is too dangerous, violent, deadly .... to walk around in a town w/o a gun.

Nope, didn't say that.

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Heaven, thanks God I live in another world.

Fantasy world? Why, yes...yes you do.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706