Mass detention of motorists in search for robbery suspect

[RonD1120 58]

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Casting a wide net to catch a fleeing suspect.

What say you? Good department policy to protect the masses or Schutzstaffel reborn?

www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31155960/detail.html

Desperate times, individual liberties decline, and, it's going to get worse.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rnicks 0]

I can't even imagine if that was me. To be be pulled out of your car by gun point? That's ridiculous.

[wayneflorida 0]

I'm not so much against the road block and the car search but the handcuff part for two hours would piss the hell out of me.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Motorcyclists have been subjected to this type of treatment for a long time.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/12419/Motorcycle-Article/Virginia-Law-Halts-Motorcycle-Checkpoints.aspx

http://www.cyrilhuzeblog.com/2011/03/03/georgia-state-justifies-motorcycle-checkpoints-location-disclosed/


http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1536

Ask any biker who has attended events like Rolling Thunder or Bike Week.

[scruffy 0]

I want to know what the "specific and articulable" facts were for every single person they pulled out of a car.

I wonder if our esteemed old dirty barristers on this board feel the police department can justify these as a lawful terry stops. All I know is if I was one of those people I'd be retaining counsel to figure that out.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[DaVinci 0]

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I'm not so much against the road block and the car search

You are OK with random searches? So you are OK with getting pulled over for "driving while black"?

This was a massive overstep by the law. This was not a case where there were hostages in the car... This was just to find a bank robber.

[funjumper101 15]

Welcome to the new order.
Right Wing Conservatives must be creaming their jeans.

This is the very predictable outcome of what passes for conservative philosophy these days. Small government only applies to corporations and extremely wealthy people. The rest of us serfs will submit to the rules without questioning anything. If us serfs haven't done anything wrong, we have nothing to fear. We just have to put up with a bit of inconvenience so that banks, corporations, and wealthy people get full protection of the law.

Screw civil liberties. Those rights have been given up freely and without concern by those that are Reich Wing Conservatives.

[scruffy 0]

What does a violation of civil liberties in one of the bluest parts of the county have to do with right wing conservatives?

Peace, love and hoppiness

[jclalor 12]

Is this a trick question? Was this in a black or white part of town?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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What does a violation of civil liberties in one of the bluest parts of the county have to do with right wing conservatives?

It doesn't but FJ never lets facts interfere with a good rant against an imaginary enemy.

[killler 2]

Did you READ the facts of this stop... There was a ARMED bank robber... They blocked off about 25 cars/trucks at a intersection were they had a VERY GOOD guess that the bank robber was in one of those cars.... Once the bank robber was arrested the others were released...

I'm not a big fan of the cops/law enforcement, MOST of the time they way over step the law... This is not one of those cases... IMHO....

Killler

[kelpdiver 2]

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Did you READ the facts of this stop... There was a ARMED bank robber... They blocked off about 25 cars/trucks at a intersection were they had a VERY GOOD guess that the bank robber was in one of those cars.... Once the bank robber was arrested the others were released...

I'm not a big fan of the cops/law enforcement, MOST of the time they way over step the law... This is not one of those cases... IMHO....

Killler

So how is it that they knew the car was probably there, but not what it looked like?

[rehmwa 2]

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You are OK with random searches?

not even when I fly somewhere.......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[killler 2]

So how is it that they knew the car was probably there, but not what it looked like?

I don't know I was not there... It sounds like they boxed in the exit that the robber took... Remember this is a fleeing armed bank robber... Hostages are held at gun point and cuffed all the time after a hostage stand-off, To sort out the good guys from the bad... Sounds like they hit the nail on the head...

Killler...

[JohnRich 4]

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So how is it that they knew the car was probably there, but not what it looked like?

It's not even clear from that story that the man they arrested was the bank robber. All it says is that they searched all the cars, and when they found a car that had two guns in it, they arrested him as a suspect.

The logic seems to go like this:
1) The bank robber was armed;
2) This driver had two guns, and;
3) Therefore this driver must be the bank robber.

It could be that the driver was just some poor innocent schmuck that happened to have two guns in his car, in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Just because someone HAS a gun does not mean that they ARE a bank robber.
Just because someone does NOT have a gun, does not mean that they are NOT a bank robber.

I wonder what the cops would have done if they had found five drivers with guns?

[DaVinci 0]

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Was this in a black or white part of town?

Why? Is it only wrong if it is done in a black/white part of town? Does being in a predominate race area nullify the 4th?

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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So how is it that they knew the car was probably there, but not what it looked like?

I wondered that too. It seems the police had an anonymous tip that the bank robber was in a car stopped at a red light at that intersection, but didn't have a description of the car or the robber, so they blocked off the intersection and searched every car. According to this article, evidence was found in the 19th and last car searched that tied the occupant to the robbery. About 40 people were handcuffed and detained.

I'm not comfortable with the way the police responded, but I also don't know what they should have done instead. An armed robber can certainly reasonably be seen as a threat to the public. What do people think should have been done? Should the police never stop or question anybody they don't already know for sure (or think they know for sure) is the actual perp? If you have 40 people detained, and you have solid reason to believe one of them has just committed armed robbery, wouldn't the police be negligent if they just said "stand over there while we search your car", and then had the actual perp pull a gun and take people hostage?

Just what exactly do people think should they have done?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

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Just what exactly do people think should they have done?

I'd first like to see a more complete description from the police describing and supporting the actions taken. I have great issues with mass detentions, esp for a crime that has already occurred. This is not too much better than no knock raids where innocents can and have gotten shot.

[wmw999 2,121]

Dunno; I think they did the best they could. They didn't profile, they used the information that they had (location) to narrow down the list of people to suspect.

I'd've been pissed, too, but I'd've gotten over it in the long run.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Just what exactly do people think should they have done?

I'd first like to see a more complete description from the police describing and supporting the actions taken. I have great issues with mass detentions, esp for a crime that has already occurred. This is not too much better than no knock raids where innocents can and have gotten shot.

I can't disagree with any of that. I wonder about the nature of the anonymous tip, they seem to have given it great credibility.

Still in principle, if we assume that they knew the tip was solid, and there was a virtual certainty that one of the 19 cars at the intersection contained an armed bank robber, what should they have done? If we say they should have done nothing, that detaining 19 vehicles (40 people) is too big an imposition, then where is the line to be drawn? If they know the robber is in one of only two vehicles, but they don't know which one without looking, do they have to let both vehicles leave rather than inconvenience one innocent citizen? Or is the line five cars? Or 50?

Me, I don't know the answer.

Also, once the vehicles are detained I assume they would get a warrant to search them, or they'd risk not being able to use the result of the search in court. It'll take time to get a warrant, so there's probably no way to do things quickly and minimize the inconvenience to the innocent.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)