Shotgun 1
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beowulf 1
QuoteQuoteI have been walking with Jesus and sane since 16 Mar 81 and, straight, clean and sober since 26 Mar 83. That is all that holds meaning for me.
So, by that logic, the fact that I have not consumed any mind-altering substances for decades is conclusive proof that there is no basis for superstition? I don't think so.
The fact that I do not drink, smoke, gamble or take drugs proves nothing in particular beyond that.
Sure it does. It proves you never had the problem that I had.
It seems that most skydivers would rather see a brother die in addiction than get sober through Christianity.
You seem to be assuming that only through Christianity can someone beat their addiction?
Quote
And, while many Christians (or rather, people in general) are condescending about their beliefs....
I wonder if all those non-believers in SC even realize how condescending they really are.
...and then point the finger at someone else.
QuoteI've met plenty of Christians who are not condescending about it at all, who are willing to accept and respect the fact that other people have different beliefs.
And you don't find many non-believers in here that are as willing to accept and respect others beliefs.
Funny how that works.
Apparently, going by the posts of most non-believers in SC, non-believers seem to think that believers must justify their beliefs to them. I think it's a personal shortcoming for anyone to ask for, much less require, justification of others beliefs whether it be on any side of the fence.
This thread and all the other anti-religion threads all are rife with this same thought pattern. It's surreal.
"You're an asshole because you believe something I don't believe and you can't justify to my satisfaction why you believe what you do."
Can't get much more mindless than that.
Especially so coming from college kids who haven't yet developed the brain power to understand the most simple things in life as yet. It's even worse when it comes from people who try to portray themselves as right-thinking adults. At least the college kid has an excuse.
(How's that for condescending?
) Anti-religion nutters with a forum....brings out the best in people.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
jakee 1,257
QuoteI wonder if all those non-believers in SC even realize how condescending they really are.
You congratulate Ron for calling other people adolescent and you criticize non-believers for being condescending but you think you're not biased.
Whatever, dude.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
Quote
It seems that most skydivers would rather see a brother die in addiction than get sober through Christianity.
If I were the type, I could revel in the absurdity of the anti-religion people in here being so all-fired riled up at what someone else believes. But no, in reality, I feel for them. It's tough to be accepting and tolerant and it takes work.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
winsor 187
QuoteQuoteI have been walking with Jesus and sane since 16 Mar 81 and, straight, clean and sober since 26 Mar 83. That is all that holds meaning for me.
So, by that logic, the fact that I have not consumed any mind-altering substances for decades is conclusive proof that there is no basis for superstition? I don't think so.
The fact that I do not drink, smoke, gamble or take drugs proves nothing in particular beyond that.
Sure it does. It proves you never had the problem that I had.
It seems that most skydivers would rather see a brother die in addiction than get sober through Christianity.
Sounds a little like Cheech Marin: "I used to be all messed up on drugs, then I found th'lord. Now I'm all messed up on th'lord."
I kind of prefer "Reality is nothing but a crutch for people who can't handle drugs."
Anyhow, there seem to be many in the recovery industry that would rather have someone die in addiction as a bad example than to get sober without religion.
Be advised, spirituality != religion.
BSBD,
Winsor
Quote
Anyhow, there seem to be many in the recovery industry that would rather have someone die in addiction as a bad example than to get sober without religion.
I haven't seen that as being 'many'. Are there some? I can't help but believe it. There are bozos on all walks of life, yes.
I have to ask...what is more important to you in this situation.
- recovery
- recovery with religion involved
- recovery with no religion involved.
...assuming, of course that recovery is important to you in the first place.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that simple recovery would be more important to you. So then, I have to ask, why is it so important to you that the route taken towards that recovery should not involve religion?
In a broader sense, why is it important to you that the route taken by others to achieve a measure of personal peace and happiness should not involve religion?
You are more than welcome to take whatever route that fits your need. Why would you want to denigrate the route taken by others....regardless of your personal opinion of it. Wouldn't their personal peace and happiness be paramount?
Would it be so impossible to simply say, "I'm happy as hell it worked out for you, bro! Congrats!"
To be truthful, I can only think of reasons for the denigration that all reflect on the reasoner in a very negative light...and that's sad.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
tkhayes 140
QuoteThere is plenty of personal evidence that sustains our faith.
agreed. None of which is evidence of the existence of a deity or God - it's just your personal experience.
winsor 187
Quote
Anyhow, there seem to be many in the recovery industry that would rather have someone die in addiction as a bad example than to get sober without religion.
I haven't seen that as being 'many'. Are there some? I can't help but believe it. There are bozos on all walks of life, yes.
I have to ask...what is more important to you in this situation.
- recovery
- recovery with religion involved
- recovery with no religion involved.
...assuming, of course that recovery is important to you in the first place.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that simple recovery would be more important to you. So then, I have to ask, why is it so important to you that the route taken towards that recovery should not involve religion?
In a broader sense, why is it important to you that the route taken by others to achieve a measure of personal peace and happiness should not involve religion?
You are more than welcome to take whatever route that fits your need. Why would you want to denigrate the route taken by others....regardless of your personal opinion of it. Wouldn't their personal peace and happiness be paramount?
Would it be so impossible to simply say, "I'm happy as hell it worked out for you, bro! Congrats!"
To be truthful, I can only think of reasons for the denigration that all reflect on the reasoner in a very negative light...and that's sad.
I am all in favor of using whatever tools work. If someone uses their favorite Leprechaun to stop sniffing glue or getting comatose on Tequila, fine.
Where I draw the line is when they then claim that correlation between results and the tool constitutes proof. "I no longer sniff glue or get comatose on tequila, therefore there are Leprechauns."
By that logic, the Pyramids are more convincing proof of the existence of Ra than laying off booze and dope is of the existence of Leprechauns or other mythical constructs.
If you say "my belief in
If you say "
BSBD,
Winsor
RonD1120 58
Quote
You seem to be assuming that only through Christianity can someone beat their addiction?
I am not. As a professional in the field, I've seen many in recovery that were not Christian.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 58
Quote
If I were the type, I could revel in the absurdity of the anti-religion people in here being so all-fired riled up at what someone else believes. But no, in reality, I feel for them. It's tough to be accepting and tolerant and it takes work.
Amen!
I know it is tough for me a lot of the time.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
RonD1120 58
Quote
The fact that I do not drink, smoke, gamble or take drugs proves nothing in particular beyond that.
Sure it does. It proves you never had the problem that I had.
It seems that most skydivers would rather see a brother die in addiction than get sober through Christianity.
Sounds a little like Cheech Marin: "I used to be all messed up on drugs, then I found th'lord. Now I'm all messed up on th'lord."
I kind of prefer "Reality is nothing but a crutch for people who can't handle drugs."
Anyhow, there seem to be many in the recovery industry that would rather have someone die in addiction as a bad example than to get sober without religion.
Be advised, spirituality != religion.
BSBD,
Winsor
I see your response as proof to my above stated point.
I have only encountered self-determined alcoholics/addicts, that is those who believe they can get sober by their own will power, in the programs where I worked. We called them frequent flyers.
For sure, I live in reality because I can't handle mood altering substances. Thanks to the grace of God through Christ, I don't have any desire to use.
Edit to add: To get back on topic, you could say I have evolved to a higher level of survivability.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.
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