Minnesota citizens about to get screwed-New stadium

[wayneflorida 0]

I say make the owners or NFL pay for the stadium.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20584250/vikings-stadium-private-meeting-among-conference-committee-members?_requestid=14177488

[marks2065 0]

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I say make the owners or NFL pay for the stadium.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20584250/vikings-stadium-private-meeting-among-conference-committee-members?_requestid=14177488

The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

[normiss 622]

WILF's????




I say it's a business, let the business owners pay for their building like every other business in that area.
Luckily here in FL where I have lived, those taxes for stadiums have been paid by the city and/or county....I avoid those counties. This type of business doesn't need my help.

[rehmwa 2]

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The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

it's amazing how when socialism turns to sports how people change teams

the pro-"I want everyone in my state to pay for a stadium whether they want one or not" nuts were in force in the city all this week - it was overwhelming and they were just as demeaning and angry and unreasoning to their opposition as you'd see from any rabid lefty demonstrater

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lawrocket 3]

The inevitable effect of having the ability to spend others peoples' money. People won't spend their own money on it. But they will spend the money of others...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rehmwa 2]

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the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years

if the city and state can make a "real" profit on it, then they should just build one on their own and use it to generate direct revenue to pay the bills.

I bet they could never do it for real though


If a private company thinks that they should get help because it helps local businesses, then they are certainly welcome to establish a legal partnership with those local businesses directly rather than forcing it through legislation. Hell, they could even set up a trust and solicit donations from those that want it so bad.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 18]

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The inevitable effect of having the ability to spend others peoples' money. People won't spend their own money on it. But they will spend the money of others...

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,623]

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The inevitable effect of having the ability to spend others peoples' money. People won't spend their own money on it. But they will spend the money of others...

+1

Yep. Just like George W. Bush and the Texas Rangers' stadium in Arlington, TX.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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The inevitable effect of having the ability to spend others peoples' money. People won't spend their own money on it. But they will spend the money of others...

+1

Yep. Just like George W. Bush and the Texas Rangers' stadium in Arlington, TX.

Agreed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

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The inevitable effect of having the ability to spend others peoples' money. People won't spend their own money on it. But they will spend the money of others...

+1

Yep. Just like George W. Bush and the Texas Rangers' stadium in Arlington, TX.

Yep. He went where the real money and power was.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[marks2065 0]

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The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

it's amazing how when socialism turns to sports how people change teams

the pro-"I want everyone in my state to pay for a stadium whether they want one or not" nuts were in force in the city all this week - it was overwhelming and they were just as demeaning and angry and unreasoning to their opposition as you'd see from any rabid lefty demonstrater

the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues, this is how business works, invest now, make profit later. the state is just entering a business opertunity that should make it a profit. If the vikings leave town it will cost the state millions in tax revenue, jobs, and welfare benifits related to lost jobs. this is just securing the state for future money. since it is on a state level with future financial rewards I think it is good. I am not a chicago fan even though I live in illinois, but I supported the soldier field, and comisky park rebuilds. (though the soldier field rebuild looks like shit).

I did not change teams as you suggested, this is not scialism., this is an investment into the future of the state. people get government loans all the time to start or build a business, this is no different.

[Southern_Man 0]

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the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues, this is how business works, invest now, make profit later. the state is just entering a business opertunity that should make it a profit. If the vikings leave town it will cost the state millions in tax revenue, jobs, and welfare benifits related to lost jobs. this is just securing the state for future money. since it is on a state level with future financial rewards I think it is good. I am not a chicago fan even though I live in illinois, but I supported the soldier field, and comisky park rebuilds. (though the soldier field rebuild looks like shit).

I did not change teams as you suggested, this is not scialism., this is an investment into the future of the state. people get government loans all the time to start or build a business, this is no different.

This is corporate welfare, plain and simple. (so are all those government loans to business). If this was such a great investment for future revenues then there would be no problem getting the team owners or other investors to put up all the money required.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[rehmwa 2]

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the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues,

the 'state' isn't paying anything. the taxpayers are. Minnesota has yet to remove any 'temporary' tax it has ever started.

Inferred revenues are interesting, I'd rather the 'state' invest in something direct, or just stay out of it and let the businesses operate on their own


corporate welfare - no different than the banks, or the oil companies, or the green companies. It's just that a LOT of people like their bread and circuses

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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I say make the owners or NFL pay for the stadium.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20584250/vikings-stadium-private-meeting-among-conference-committee-members?_requestid=14177488

The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

With the Dodgers selling for 2B, I think we're past the days where a city should be shelling out half the cost on a billion dollar project. Or perhaps they should just get their share when the current owners sell, since a team with a new stadium is worth substantially more.

The economic benefit of a pro team is a bit less clear cut that you suggest. Much of that money would be spent on other local interests. Oakland definitely took a bath on the Raider move. And little prevents these teams from moving anyhow.

[marks2065 0]

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I say make the owners or NFL pay for the stadium.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20584250/vikings-stadium-private-meeting-among-conference-committee-members?_requestid=14177488

The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

With the Dodgers selling for 2B, I think we're past the days where a city should be shelling out half the cost on a billion dollar project. Or perhaps they should just get their share when the current owners sell, since a team with a new stadium is worth substantially more.

The economic benefit of a pro team is a bit less clear cut that you suggest. Much of that money would be spent on other local interests. Oakland definitely took a bath on the Raider move. And little prevents these teams from moving anyhow.

the lease dictates the moves backed by the owners. And there is a clause if the vikings get sold before the end of the lease, (unless they to it out on the last vote)

[SkyDekker 1,123]

I think many people would agree that a major role of government is to stimulate investment. The federal government does it at a national level, state governments at state level and county and municipal governments at the local level.

How that is done can certainly be questioned, and there have certainly been enough bad ways that it has been done. But, I really don't see how you can advocate that government should stay out of that completely.

[lawrocket 3]

Now there are some times when I don't necessarily disagree with such things. If one wants to look at stadiums and arenas, there is a good history of local governments having them built. In the 70's, a hole-in-the-wall town between the Chicago Loop and O'Hare issued millions in bonds to have an indoor arena built, and the Rosemont Horizon (Allstate Arena now) has been pretty successful (despite that roof collapse while it was being built).

It was a local thing, though, with a City itself taking the responsibility for it. Perhaps I have an easier time handling localities doing it that states, because of the concentration of benefits and spreading of costs that comes with larger governments.

Edited to add: seeing SkyDekker's comment, I think that my preference for localities is based upon just his post.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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the lease dictates the moves backed by the owners. And there is a clause if the vikings get sold before the end of the lease, (unless they to it out on the last vote)

The same deal that has a city/state bending over backwards at the threat of the team leaving tends to have terms that aren't that hard to pay off - the next city/state will happily pay the exit fees.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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the lease dictates the moves backed by the owners. And there is a clause if the vikings get sold before the end of the lease, (unless they to it out on the last vote)

The same deal that has a city/state bending over backwards at the threat of the team leaving tends to have terms that aren't that hard to pay off - the next city/state will happily pay the exit fees.

I don't see them bending over backwards. Bending over, yes.
But not backwards.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[kallend 1,623]

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The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

it's amazing how when socialism turns to sports how people change teams

the pro-"I want everyone in my state to pay for a stadium whether they want one or not" nuts were in force in the city all this week - it was overwhelming and they were just as demeaning and angry and unreasoning to their opposition as you'd see from any rabid lefty demonstrater

the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues, this is how business works, invest now, make profit later. the state is just entering a business opertunity that should make it a profit. If the vikings leave town it will cost the state millions in tax revenue, jobs, and welfare benifits related to lost jobs. this is just securing the state for future money. since it is on a state level with future financial rewards I think it is good. I am not a chicago fan even though I live in illinois, but I supported the soldier field, and comisky park rebuilds. (though the soldier field rebuild looks like shit).

I did not change teams as you suggested, this is not scialism., this is an investment into the future of the state. people get government loans all the time to start or build a business, this is no different.

Rather like the feds supporting GM and Chrysler, and then getting paid back while keeping lots of jobs in the USA?

Or more like the White Sox owners getting rich off Cellular Field, while the taxpayers take a bath?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[marks2065 0]

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The city and state would be using the stadium also. the metradome has been used for several hundred events making the city and state money for 30 years, this would be the same. It is better than loosing the team and its revenue. Look what it cost minn. when they lost the hockey team.

it's amazing how when socialism turns to sports how people change teams

the pro-"I want everyone in my state to pay for a stadium whether they want one or not" nuts were in force in the city all this week - it was overwhelming and they were just as demeaning and angry and unreasoning to their opposition as you'd see from any rabid lefty demonstrater

the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues, this is how business works, invest now, make profit later. the state is just entering a business opertunity that should make it a profit. If the vikings leave town it will cost the state millions in tax revenue, jobs, and welfare benifits related to lost jobs. this is just securing the state for future money. since it is on a state level with future financial rewards I think it is good. I am not a chicago fan even though I live in illinois, but I supported the soldier field, and comisky park rebuilds. (though the soldier field rebuild looks like shit).

I did not change teams as you suggested, this is not scialism., this is an investment into the future of the state. people get government loans all the time to start or build a business, this is no different.

Rather like the feds supporting GM and Chrysler, and then getting paid back while keeping lots of jobs in the USA?

Or more like the White Sox owners getting rich off Cellular Field, while the taxpayers take a bath?

no this is on a state level no national and the people of the state can do want they would like with their money. the fed government should not be involved in private enterprise. the state would loose millions if the vikings left, there it is in their best interest to work a deal that favors the tax payers in the long run. they are only fronting a third of the costs and many high school and tade functions will be held there. it is a plus for the state.

The states have different functions than the fed government and the fed gov has stepped beyond it's boarders.

as far as comiskypark, if the state was to stupid to put up money without a paybeack from the stadium that is their fault and the people of illinois for electing the shitheads. maybe the state of illinois needs to get rid of the corrupt polititians that we have.

[marks2065 0]

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the state is only paying about 350 million and it will be repaid in revenues, this is how business works, invest now, make profit later. the state is just entering a business opertunity that should make it a profit. If the vikings leave town it will cost the state millions in tax revenue, jobs, and welfare benifits related to lost jobs. this is just securing the state for future money. since it is on a state level with future financial rewards I think it is good. I am not a chicago fan even though I live in illinois, but I supported the soldier field, and comisky park rebuilds. (though the soldier field rebuild looks like shit).

I did not change teams as you suggested, this is not scialism., this is an investment into the future of the state. people get government loans all the time to start or build a business, this is no different.

This is corporate welfare, plain and simple. (so are all those government loans to business). If this was such a great investment for future revenues then there would be no problem getting the team owners or other investors to put up all the money required.

the state will be using the facility for high school and trade functions, just like the metrodome has been used by the state many many times in the last 30 years. it is a state facility that brings in revenue from all over the country. how much did minnesota make on the superbowl a few years ago? that was just 1 event.

[rehmwa 2]

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the state would loose millions if the vikings left,

so true - and they only have to put up hundreds of millions to make sure those millions stay

true government in action

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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the state will be using the facility for high school and trade functions, just like the metrodome has been used by the state many many times in the last 30 years. it is a state facility that brings in revenue from all over the country. how much did minnesota make on the superbowl a few years ago? that was just 1 event.

The metrodome is a different case than most - it was in fact falling apart. But often perfectly good (esp for high school or trade) stadiums are destroyed the same way that Vegas destroys 20 year old casinos.

So how much did it make on that superbowl? Net, not gross. And if you instead picked a city that people would visit anyway (Florida) in February, aren't you just displacing existing revenue?

[billvon 2,400]

>It is better than loosing the team and its revenue.

Never thought I'd see the day where marks started advocating for socialism.