What if the government rejects the Constitution?

[devildog 0]

Thought this was a good read

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/04/12/what-if-government-rejects-constitution/

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What if the government rejects the Constitution?
By Judge Andrew Napolitano


What if the government never took the Constitution seriously? What if the same generation -- in some cases the same human beings -- that wrote in the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech," also enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts, which made it a crime to criticize the government? What if the feds don't regard the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land?

What if the government regards the Constitution as merely a guideline to be referred to from time to time, or a myth to be foisted upon the voters, but not as a historic delegation of power that lawfully limits the federal government? What if Congress knows that most of what it regulates puts it outside the confines of the Constitution, but it does whatever it can get away with? What if the feds don't think that the Constitution was written to keep them off the people's backs?

What if there's no substantial difference between the two major political parties? What if the same political mentality that gave us the Patriot Act, with its federal agent-written search warrants that permit unconstitutional spying on us, also gave us ObamaCare, with its mandate to buy health insurance, even if we don't want or need it? What if both political parties love power more than freedom? What if both parties have used the Commerce Clause in the Constitution to stretch the power of the federal government far beyond its constitutionally ordained boundaries and well beyond the plain meaning of words?

What if both parties love war because the public is more docile during war and permits higher taxes and more federal theft of freedom from individuals and power from the states? What if none of these recent wars has made us freer or safer, but just poorer?

What if Congress bribed the states with cash in return for their enacting legislation that Congress likes, but cannot lawfully enact? What if Congress went to all states in the union and offered them cash to repave their interstate highways, if the states only lowered their speed limits? What if the states took that deal? What if the Supreme Court approved this bribery and then Congress did it again and again? What if this bribery were a way for Congress to get around the few constitutional limitations that Congress acknowledges?
What if Congress believes that it can spend tax dollars on anything it pleases and tie any strings it wants to that spending? What if Congress uses its taxing and spending power to regulate anything it wants to control, whether authorized by the Constitution or not? What if anyone other than members of Congress offered state legislatures cash in return for favorable legislation? What if Congress wrote laws that let it break laws that ordinary people would be prosecuted for breaking?

What if the Declaration of Independence says that the government derives its powers from the consent of the governed? What if the government claims to derive powers from some other source that it will not -- because it cannot -- name? What if we never gave the government the power to spy on us, to print worthless cash, to kill in our names, to force us to buy health insurance or to waste our money by telling us that exercise is good and sugar is bad?

What if we never gave the government the power to bribe the poor with welfare or the middle class with tax breaks or the rich with bailouts or the states with cash? What if we don't consent to what has become of the government? What if the Constitution has been tacitly amended by the consent of both political parties, whereby instead of ratifying amendments, all three branches of government merely look the other way when the government violates the Constitution? What if the president cannot constitutionally bomb whatever country he wants? What if the Congress cannot constitutionally exempt its members from the laws that govern the rest of us? What if the courts cannot constitutionally invent a right to kill babies in the womb?

What if the federal government is out of control, no matter which party controls it? What if there is only harmony on Capitol Hill when government is growing and personal liberty is shrinking? What if the presidential race this fall will not be between good and evil, between right and left, between free markets and central planning or even between constitutional government and Big Government; but only about how much bigger Big Government should get?
What if enough is enough? What do we do about it? What if it's too late?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[quade 3]

What if . . . he actually said something.

Here's the problem with the piece, by constantly asking "what if" he's able to make all sorts of wild accusations that appear to have some sort of weight behind them when taken as a whole, but he never offers up any reasonable evidence of anything.

"Judge" Napolitano hasn't been a judge for quite some time, simply a mouth piece and commentator for the right.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[davjohns 1]

To answer the question - I would hope the second amendment kicks in, we kick out that government and, start over.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[RonD1120 58]

I spoke with a 78 YO retired industrial physicist earlier this week. He advised to invest in tangible assets because our currency is losing value rapidly. He saw little differences between Republicans and Democrats. He stated, from his experience, that those in power are not necessarily intelligent. He believes that the worse to come will effect our grandchildren's children.

He believes that change for the better will not begin without violence. He stated the last revolution in this country was in 1932 when the Bonus Army marched on Washington DC. Generals MacArthur and Eisenhower were ordered to quell the violence and disperse the veterans. He believes the government changed at that point.

He believes a well armed party of the left will engage a well armed party of the right. After a violent confrontation, change will take place. It may be positive change; it may be negative change.

He believes that a positive strategy for the economy would be to unite the U.S. and Canada.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

I should have tagged my post on to your's instead of the OP.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[devildog 0]

Those "What ifs" aren't random thoughts or hypothetical situations, and that's the point. He's writing it as if it's just a fairy tale, but the fairy tale has already played out. The president HAS bombed whatever country he wants. The govt HAS spied on us, HAS brought us Obamacare, HAS bribed states, the poor, the middle, the rich, etc.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[RonD1120 58]

How long < he replies BS?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[winsor 186]

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Those "What ifs" aren't random thoughts or hypothetical situations, and that's the point. He's writing it as if it's just a fairy tale, but the fairy tale has already played out. The president HAS bombed whatever country he wants. The govt HAS spied on us, HAS brought us Obamacare, HAS bribed states, the poor, the middle, the rich, etc.

I think he picked up on that. The display of deep denial demonstrates that the point was made.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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Those "What ifs" aren't random thoughts or hypothetical situations, and that's the point. He's writing it as if it's just a fairy tale, but the fairy tale has already played out. The president HAS bombed whatever country he wants. The govt HAS spied on us, HAS brought us Obamacare, HAS bribed states, the poor, the middle, the rich, etc.

Then you have failed as a society. The whole point of that 2nd Amedmend is to prevent this from happening.

So, either you guys are all a bunch of pussies, or the 2nd amendmend is useless, or things aren't as bad as that article makes it out to be.

Which one is it?

[winsor 186]

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Those "What ifs" aren't random thoughts or hypothetical situations, and that's the point. He's writing it as if it's just a fairy tale, but the fairy tale has already played out. The president HAS bombed whatever country he wants. The govt HAS spied on us, HAS brought us Obamacare, HAS bribed states, the poor, the middle, the rich, etc.

Then you have failed as a society. The whole point of that 2nd Amedmend is to prevent this from happening.

So, either you guys are all a bunch of pussies, or the 2nd amendmend is useless, or things aren't as bad as that article makes it out to be.

Which one is it?

Since I think things are, in fact, worse than the article makes it out to be, I suppose that makes us a bunch of pussies.

I, for one, have precisely zero interest in going down in a blaze of glory trying to stem the tides of history - second amendment or not.

One of the Rules of Combat is along the lines of "try to look unimportant, and hope the enemy is low on ammunition."

I don't mind someone calling me a pussy if they have to dial "1" first - long distance works for me.


BSBD,

Winsor

[SkyDekker 1,122]

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I, for one, have precisely zero interest in going down in a blaze of glory trying to stem the tides of history - second amendment or not.

Ask not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

[winsor 186]

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I, for one, have precisely zero interest in going down in a blaze of glory trying to stem the tides of history - second amendment or not.

Ask not what the country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

Which was said by a man that announced to the world that he was a jelly doughnut. 'Ich bin *ein* Berliner' is on a par with saying 'I am *a* Danish.' The article changes the meaning 100%.

I am more a fan of Douglas MacArthur - "Old soldiers never die. Young ones do."

[billvon 2,400]

>So, either you guys are all a bunch of pussies, or the 2nd amendmend is
>useless, or things aren't as bad as that article makes it out to be.

That. Ever since Ben Franklin's rants about how the evil Dutch and Germaan immigrants will destroy the US back in the 1750's people have been saying "this is the worst ever! The US will never be the same!" (or, more accurately for him, "the colonies will never be the same!")

Well, 250 years have passed since Franklin predicted the end of the US as we know it. We're not all speaking Dutch. They did not destroy our government. Everyone does not beat their mothers. (His prediction of what would happen once those "young Hottentots" had their way.)

There's an old saying "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me." Dire predictions about the end of this country as we know it have been going on for at least 250 years - but still, some people seem to be fooled by them.

[Southern_Man 0]

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That. Ever since Ben Franklin's rants about how the evil Dutch and Germaan immigrants will destroy the US back in the 1750's people have been saying "this is the worst ever! The US will never be the same!" (or, more accurately for him, "the colonies will never be the same!")

Well, 250 years have passed since Franklin predicted the end of the US as we know it. We're not all speaking Dutch. They did not destroy our government. Everyone does not beat their mothers. (His prediction of what would happen once those "young Hottentots" had their way.)

There's an old saying "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me." Dire predictions about the end of this country as we know it have been going on for at least 250 years - but still, some people seem to be fooled by them.

Eh, you can go back a little further than that to the Puritan jeremiad's about how the country was in line for divine retribution because the younger generation was turning their back on God and his commandments....

Of course no poster around here would ever use a similar line of reasoning...

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Marinus 0]

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'Ich bin *ein* Berliner' is on a par with saying 'I am *a* Danish.'

"Berliner" is a noun, "Danish" is not. I don't know if "Ich bin ein Berliner" is correct, but it's on par with "I'm an American".

[sfzombie 3]

i hope you really don't think like that, he actually provided a concise history of our nation. he did say something and it was completely factual. he doesn't need to provide examples, that's what people in these forums ask for. i generally prefer to look up info for myself, but it is nice to have links provided.

http://kitswv.com

[quade 3]

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i hope you really don't think like that, he actually provided a concise history of our nation. he did say something and it was completely factual. he doesn't need to provide examples, that's what people in these forums ask for. i generally prefer to look up info for myself, but it is nice to have links provided.

Great! Then maybe you're willing to provide links to back up every claim he's made.

But let's just start with the first one . . . give that a bit of a go will ya? Show me some sort of documentation that "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

What? You say it's actually impossible to prove that?

Hmmm, then why on earth should I even waste my time thinking about the rest of the "what if" statements?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,623]

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'Ich bin *ein* Berliner' is on a par with saying 'I am *a* Danish.'

"Berliner" is a noun, "Danish" is not. I don't know if "Ich bin ein Berliner" is correct, but it's on par with "I'm an American".

Like it or not (and I do not) "Danish" is certainly a noun here. See it in bakeries everywhere, everyday.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[devildog 0]

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But let's just start with the first one . . . give that a bit of a go will ya? Show me some sort of documentation that "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law

That was easy.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[kallend 1,623]

What if there was no friction?

What if gravity was repulsive?

What if the fine structure constant was different by 4%?

What if neutrinos really did go faster than light?

What if pi = 10?

These are the really interesting questions.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

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But let's just start with the first one . . . give that a bit of a go will ya? Show me some sort of documentation that "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law
That was easy.

Negative. You've attempted to prove an individual has done something that might be considered to be questionable in its Constitutionality.

So, again, I ask you to prove "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

The implication is that it is and always has been a massive conspiracy by some secret illuminati. That's simply crazy talk.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[devildog 0]

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But let's just start with the first one . . . give that a bit of a go will ya? Show me some sort of documentation that "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obama-signs-indefinite-detention-bill-law
That was easy.

Negative. You've attempted to prove an individual has done something that might be considered to be questionable in its Constitutionality.

So, I again, I ask you to prove "...the government never took the Constitution seriously."

The implication is that it is and always has been a massive conspiracy by some secret illuminati. That's simply crazy talk.

There's no might about it. Indefinite detention goes completely against the 6th amendment. There is no grey, "maybe" "might" be wrong here. Let me quote it for you:

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial..." You CANNOT have a speedy trial if you are INDEFINITELY detained.

And no, the implication isn't there is a massive conspiracy by the secret Illuminati. He's saying that they are being brazen about it. And they are.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[quade 3]

Nonsense. It's the rantings of the tinfoil hat crowd and nothing more.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Marinus 0]

"Berliner" can refer to a citizen of Berlin, Danish can't refer to a Citizen of Danmark. Beside "Danish" is short for "Danish X" in that context.

This isn't exactly Grammatical Nazism but what is it. Ethymologic Nazism?

[devildog 0]

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Nonsense. It's the rantings of the tinfoil hat crowd and nothing more.

Sure it is.

So, for the record, you are saying:

Patriot Act was never passed
ObamaCare was never passed
The president didn't bomb a country w/o Congressional approval
The Commerce Clause hasn't been used to expand Federal Power
The public isn't more accepting of higher taxes during war
Congress hasn't written laws that let it break laws that ordinary people would be prosecuted for breaking?
All recent wars have indeed made us safer as well as richer
etc. etc.

We can keep going, but those are pretty concrete for the times. Are you really suggesting that speaking about the above is from the tinfoil hat crowd and nothing more?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.