Chevy volt real cost 250k to tax payers

[normiss 733]

Steam left over in factories.
Wasted energy. Don't care how they create it, feed it to a steam turbine and return the power to your plant or sell it back to power companies. Some have agreements with power companies that build the systems and place them adjacent to an industrial facility.
A LOT of steam is wasted in manufacturing.

[PhreeZone 15]

Nissan has the Leaf as an all electric car also. It has the same plug in system as the Volt and uses similar charges on the car to top it off.

The Volt has an gas motor to run a generator as an option also if needed but for most city drives the option is never needed and only on really long drives do most drivers see this kicking in.

I love the logic of even though the car has passed every safety test thrown at it some day somewhere someone might be injured so therefor the entire concept is flawed and people refuse to ride in them. Overall the technology is not that far off from a Prius and we don't seem them exploding left and right and the have been out for 10 years....

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[shah269 0]

So let me get this right, two inefficient motors are better than one proven efficient motor that can be run on a potential sustainable source of energy.

Pardon me while I look perplexed and doubt your logic.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[PhreeZone 15]

Which fuel are you saying is sustainable? That will frame the entire conversation.

The Volt has an Electric motor that does the majority of the propulsion of the car. Only when the batteries have ran down to low power does the gas engine start up and it runs only to generate power to recharge the batteries. This is essentually a range boosting ability. The batteries are limited to about 100 miles of driving before they need recharged (4-5 hours on 110v or 2-3 on 220v) which happens to be more than the average commute from home to work and back. This lets you charge up at night so you might never need to touch the gas motor. But if you end up taking some detours on the way home and now your battery is about dead the gas motor can fire up and start charging the battery, this will give you more than the 100 mile range until you can charge up again.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[billvon 2,772]

>So let me get this right, two inefficient motors are better than one proven efficient
>motor that can be run on a potential sustainable source of energy.

My car has _three_ motors, gets 45mpg, will run on ethanol and has gone 111,000 miles so far.

[normiss 733]

[shah269 0]

Quote

>So let me get this right, two inefficient motors are better than one proven efficient
>motor that can be run on a potential sustainable source of energy.

My car has _three_ motors, gets 45mpg, will run on ethanol and has gone 111,000 miles so far.

Did you just type 3 motors!

I mean really we know full well how to turn green things that grow in ponds into diesel. And last i checked green things that grew in ponds were almost unkillable!

Come on really! Give me a 1.8TDI in a light body! Hell slap that engine in a TT body and it will outrun out last and sure as shit out cool the Volt and still be greener!

Hell slap that same 1.8TDI engine in a Lotus body and panties will just explode off women as you drive by while burning recycled vegetable oil.

A girl i'm seeing comes from a well to do family, father's got a Tesla.
I show up in my 135I. I admire his collection of cars and we get to talking so me being me i say I'll race you for pinks for the Tesla.
He thinking he's got the upper hand says SURE!
I say my terms my conditions since it's my wager.
Sure he says just as long as it's reasonable.
Sure I say.
So he rattles off
quarter mile?
I say no.
Mile?
I say no.
Twice around Pocono Raceway?
I say no.
He looks at me bemused and smug.
I respond 280 miles.
He stops....looks at me....I look at him....looks at his daughter who is now smiling.
I being me I then say, I'll even give you a 4 hour head start.
He looks at his daughter and says, "finally you found yourself a smart one."

Needless to say, I was cheating. Sure it's a Lotus but some dumb twit stuck what appears to be a hunk of led 3 ft too high and 3 ft too forward of where the CG should be and then added insult to injury by.......making it such that it only goes 250 miles in a perfect world and needs 16 hours to recharge.

Nice car....to look at. But then again could have been done better with a 1.8TDI

Now I know where the volt is coming from, there is a pile of cash set aside by a bunch of art history majors who's collective IQ is slightly lower than that of a burned out toaster. And these pillars or stupidity think they know how to build cars and run wars.....which they don't.

So all Chevy is doing is....doing the right thing, picking up some of this free cash to offset it's other expenses. It has nothing to do with a car or the environment. It has all to do with a huge pile of cold hard cash that is just sitting there for the taking.

Boys and girls don't give up on the IC engine just yet. It's going to be around a lot longer than you or I. Because we have hit a fundamental wall with respect to being able to store electrical energy in things such as LiPo's. Any more they tend to explode any less and well it's just no fun.

So unless you plan on selling your home in the berbs and moving into the closest city and or some one finds an amazing way to store electrical energy such that it doesn't explode this is all just a crap shoot and a total waste of time....

Driving around with one engine while the other one is doing either next to nothing or worse sucking the life out of the anemic one? What dumb ass art history major thought of that......oh those very same guys who though of all those other dumb things!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,772]

>Come on really! Give me a 1.8TDI in a light body!

That works too! There are lots of solutions.

>Boys and girls don't give up on the IC engine just yet.

Uh, the Volt has an ICE.

>Driving around with one engine while the other one is doing either next to nothing or
>worse sucking the life out of the anemic one?

I got one! Works great.

Do you have a starter motor in your car? Big ol' lead acid starter battery? Just hauling that stuff around, stuff that does nothing 99.999% of the time? Doesn't even help you accelerate? Seems like a complete waste! What brain dead Old English Lit major thought that one up?

[shah269 0]

Honda has it, so do all F1 cars.
VERY NICE idea!
Now that may work! And has worked!
But having one motor just lie there like a dead fish....thanks but no thanks!
But having a little one that gives you just a little oooomph...very good idea!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[tkhayes 300]

Quote

How is most electric power gererated in the US? Hint it's not wind or solar. We have plenty of fossil fuels it's just the green cultist block us from it.

And generating power en masse, even with fossil fuels, is far more efficient than say, burning fossil fuels in individual car engines that run an efficiency of some 30% usage of the energy that is generated. Most of it is lost to heat or spit out the tailpipe.

Electric motors have efficiencies of some 95-99%, meaning the energy used becomes torque directly. Generating that energy, even if all we burned was dirty coal, is far more efficient that the millions of gasoline engines that are out there.

I guess you missed the electrical engineering class - I did not.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Nissan has the Leaf as an all electric car also. It has the same plug in system as the Volt and uses similar charges on the car to top it off.

The Volt has an gas motor to run a generator as an option also if needed but for most city drives the option is never needed and only on really long drives do most drivers see this kicking in.

I love the logic of even though the car has passed every safety test thrown at it some day somewhere someone might be injured so therefor the entire concept is flawed and people refuse to ride in them. Overall the technology is not that far off from a Prius and we don't seem them exploding left and right and the have been out for 10 years....

The exploding thing is not an issue to me
I am just trying to lean a bit more about them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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Quote

How is most electric power gererated in the US? Hint it's not wind or solar. We have plenty of fossil fuels it's just the green cultist block us from it.

And generating power en masse, even with fossil fuels, is far more efficient than say, burning fossil fuels in individual car engines that run an efficiency of some 30% usage of the energy that is generated. Most of it is lost to heat or spit out the tailpipe.

Electric motors have efficiencies of some 95-99%, meaning the energy used becomes torque directly. Generating that energy, even if all we burned was dirty coal, is far more efficient that the millions of gasoline engines that are out there.

I guess you missed the electrical engineering class - I did not.

The high percentage comes when they are at rated RPM's

They will not achive that (I think, billvon?) in stop and go

Will they?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,853]

Quote

Quote

Quote

How is most electric power gererated in the US? Hint it's not wind or solar. We have plenty of fossil fuels it's just the green cultist block us from it.

And generating power en masse, even with fossil fuels, is far more efficient than say, burning fossil fuels in individual car engines that run an efficiency of some 30% usage of the energy that is generated. Most of it is lost to heat or spit out the tailpipe.

Electric motors have efficiencies of some 95-99%, meaning the energy used becomes torque directly. Generating that energy, even if all we burned was dirty coal, is far more efficient that the millions of gasoline engines that are out there.

I guess you missed the electrical engineering class - I did not.

The high percentage comes when they are at rated RPM's

They will not achive that (I think, billvon?) in stop and go

Will they?

Electronically commuted brushless motors can be efficient at almost all speeds. Quite unlike an ICE, although variably timed ICEs are far better than the old ones.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[tkhayes 300]

All motors run best and most efficient at a constant speed and torque etc

But electric motors at any speed are still way way way more efficient than any ICE counterPart

Almost all the energy used goes directly to torque from zero rpm onward

[tkhayes 300]

agreed, the new gas/diesel engines are far better than the old ones, but comparing the efficiency to electric at any level is apples and oranges.

The real saving sis how we generate the power.

As I said, generating electricity with coal and distributing it en masse is way more efficient and fuel saving that generating horsepower by burning fossil fuels in little cylinders.

No different that it being way more efficient to carry 100 people in a bus than it is to carry 100 people in 50 cars. Same technology, you can still burn fossil fuels, you just burn a whole lot less of it.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I was referring to pure steam powered, not a plant that uses another source to drive the steam turbines as the coal and nuke plants do.

There are pure steam powered turbine power generating plants around the US. Industrial plants tend to like them a bit.

How do you get steam ?

Geothermal.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Boys and girls don't give up on the IC engine just yet. It's going to be around a lot longer than you or I. Because we have hit a fundamental wall with respect to being able to store electrical energy in things such as LiPo's. Any more they tend to explode any less and well it's just no fun.

There you go again, seeing barriers. Yet while you think batteries are done for, you're really optimistic about turning algae into diesel, even though it's not been done at any level of scale. I'd look to Brasil and their sugar cane production as a better example of larger scale production. But it's still pretty far away from the level of production we currently require. Homer Simpson can only eat so much bacon, you know.

BTW, I suspect that future you envision with biodiesel would still entail carrying around useless engines doing nothing - the hybrid (Prius) model works even better with diesel in terms of fuel economy.

[billvon 2,772]

>But having one motor just lie there like a dead fish....thanks but no thanks!
>But having a little one that gives you just a little oooomph...very good idea!

Uh, OK.

Both the Prius and the Volt can use both motors (in the case of the Prius all three) to give "a little oomph." The BMW 135i never uses its starter motor to accelerate. It "just lies there like a dead fish" to use your more colorful term.

[shah269 0]

Yeah but come on that starter motor is nothing. Next you want to tell me that the blower from my HVAC should do some work as well?
Come on!
Look my 1.8T got me 30mpg @80mph
My 3.5TT gets me 26mph @ 80mph
Not bad right! So why do I need an electric engine to sit there and do nothing.

Look, you have two independent systems in a prius and the volt.....now the Honda system that came from F1....that's sexy. that one I think will do very well in most cars but will do even better in trucks!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[brenthutch 422]

Quote

>Central PA, where coal is abundant.

In that case your mix is likely something like:

Coal 54%
Nuclear 35%
Oil 5%
Methane 4%
Renewables 2%

>BTW my natural gas bill was $12 last month.

My utility bill was $5 last month.

You don't live in central PA. If you did you would quickly find out that your socal solar solution did not work so well.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>So let me get this right, two inefficient motors are better than one proven efficient
>motor that can be run on a potential sustainable source of energy.

My car has _three_ motors, gets 45mpg, will run on ethanol and has gone 111,000 miles so far.

What's the third motor? Something you added on, or did they change the design?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,772]

>What's the third motor? Something you added on, or did they change the design?

1) Internal combustion engine.

2) Motor MG2. Connected directly to wheels. Functions as a motor during acceleration and as a generator during braking.

3) Motor MG1. Starts the IC engine and provides variable torque to implement a continuously variable transmission in the power split device.

[billvon 2,772]

>You don't live in central PA. If you did you would quickly find out that your socal solar
>solution did not work so well.

Socal gets about 5.5 equivalent hours of direct sun a day average. I don't know where you live, but State College gets abput 4.3 hours of direct sun a day average. Which means that if you want to install a solar power system it has to be about 25% larger than a system in Socal does. On the other hand, a system in Tucson can be 15% smaller and produce the same amount of energy.

[billvon 2,772]

>Yeah but come on that starter motor is nothing.

Why does it have to be? Why not have it function as the alternator and as an additional motor? That way you can combine two devices (one of which is useless at any given time) AND get more acceleration.

>My 3.5TT gets me 26mph @ 80mph
>Not bad right! So why do I need an electric engine to sit there and do nothing.

Cause with those useless electric engines you can get upwards of 40mpg at 80mph.

[mnealtx 0]

I was unaware of that...thanks for the info, Bill.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706