I gave this a good bit of thought

[shah269 0]

I've given this a good bit of thought last night.
4 martinis in and I just couldn't sleep......i keept thinking and thinking and trying to convince myself if the future would be any better than yesterday and much better than it is today.

And sadly I came to the conclusion that it will not be. The system is too big it is too entrenched and it is too powerful. And all this argument about politics of the far right or the far left....it's all meaningless. I can't think of a single modern political leader or party who has done anything to increase the ranks of the middle class since the late 70's.

I'm looking around and I see friends without job, i see friends who are highly qualified being paid less than what they are worth and doing the job of 3 individuals and hoping that they won't get laid off, i hear about middle class people skipping medication to cover heating or mortgage costs.

I look around and I don't see a way out. No new technology to help grow our economy, no new leader that has the balls to push the system to equality and we as a population well....we are a mess. The very system we rely on to save us in our later years is killing us now.

I hold my head low I really don't see anything getting any better over the next 10 years.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[matthewcline 0]

You're a "glass half empty" kind of guy huh?

I agree our Politicians have done nothing to little to move the country forward, but think the country is finally capitalizing on its new found voice, the one it tested in the 60's.

I think we are near the low point, then we will rebuild and move upwards.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[dks13827 2]

Shah, I gotta agree with you. The government's purpose is government jobs, not the good of the country. Even NASA guys will tell you how bad things are in their endeavor.... I mean, we have Congress designing ROCKETS !!! No bullshit !!!
Thats just one example of hundreds, I am sure.

[shah269 0]

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You're a "glass half empty" kind of guy huh?

I do my best not to be, being cocky helps but every now and again reality does hit you square in the face!

Met this girl the other night, worked in NYC for Human Scale (they make great freaking office stuff) epic amount of experience and apparently a great sales history....she got hurt spend a few months in a hospital....they let her go. ( i'm in no position to verify so i'm taking her word for it).

I know friends who have been let go from their jobs and hired as contractors doing the exact same job at 10% less....and it's legal.

I no longer see or feel that corporations have any stake in their employees. The market is so bad that any one any where any time can be let go if they do not perform at 200% and be replaced by another person of equal talent working for 25% less.

I see an feel this sinking feeling that we are stuck in this epic line twist and are spinning our way into the ground at an amazing speed.

Push harder get more from employee....if not fire them hire another who will work for less...push harder get more...if not fire them and hire another who will work for less....
All the while demand plummets for goods and services for no one has any capital to spend on good or services......

I don't know......I'm going to step out of the office and sit under a tree and drink a cup of coffee and look at the big blue sky. Which sadly if you ask me is the only thing in this fracked up world that makes any sense to me.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[masterrig 1]

I had the good fortune to work for a fuel and oil distributor, owned by a remarkable man. He was a WWII vet, a Naval officer. He started-out as the company accountant before the war. He wound-up being the CEO. He could meet you for the first time and you might not see him for months after but he remembered your name the next time he saw you. We had medical & dental insurance, we got raises, every three months as well as 'safety bonuses'. His business theory was, treat your help right and they'll do you a good job. Give good service and customers will be back. Shortly before I left the company, he retired and his step-son took over the business. Almost immediately, wages were cut, dental insurance was cut, raises and safety bonuses ceased. Hands quit and new hires started at minnimum wage. Long time customers went elswhere. Company branches were closed. With-in two years, the step-son sold-out! The new owners were the same as him. The company is still there but no where near what it was. I earned a lot from that.


Chuck

[diverborg 0]

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I can't think of a single modern political leader or party who has done anything to increase the ranks of the middle class since the late 70's.

I think the biggest flaw with out society is that we think political leaders are somehow going "make things better".

Nobody wants to point the fingers at "we the people". We have the sole power to elect those that govern us. We have the sole power to decide who we give our business to. We have the sole power that if we don't like something about our economic status, then we can do something about it. Nobody is holding you down but yourself. There is nothing govt can or ever will be able to do to eliminate poverty or protect a certain "class". The disappearing middle class has more to do with the "dumbification" of America than it has anything to do with politics. I came from a single parent family where my dad made $7/hr when I was still in high school and managed to raise 3 of us. I didn't have anybody there to buy me clothes, a car, or pay for my college. There were 4 of us in a two bedroom apt with no video games, or cable tv. And life was just fine. I had the common sense to take advantage of a public education, take the student loans and go to college, and work my ass off to have a better life than I did as a kid, and I'm doing just fine on my middle-class income becaues I don't waste my money on crap.

If you don't like the way things are going. Then quit buying stuff at Wal-mart. Try hard in school, go to college (anybody can get a student loan), don't blow your money on "stuff" and invest it, and make something of yourself. No politician can motivate a society to do this by giving them handouts, or making laws to protect a certain class.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Nothing is going to get any better for you until you stop wondering who is going to make it better. You want technology to drive society foreward, well, YOU"RE THE FREAKING ENGINEER! The system is rigged against you, but don't let that stop you, you still gotta play if you want to win. It doesn't sound like you are getting any fulfillment from your job. Sounds like you need to have a good hard think about what will. If going to work every day for the man, not taking any risks and still having a constantly improving economic situation is what you are looking for you are probably shit out of luck. From my experience the engineers who earn "what they are worth" either go out on their own or go get an MBA and actually become indispensable to the man by being able to take ideas and turn them into finished projects.
Most North American workers are not only getting what they are worth, but considerably more. The rest of the world is imposing corrective action on us right now. We can become worth more or accept less. One thing we cannot have is 1985-2008 false prosperity that was achieved on the back of our credit cards- not gonna happen.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And sadly I came to the conclusion that it will not be. The system is too big it is too entrenched and it is too powerful. And all this argument about politics of the far right or the far left....it's all meaningless. I can't think of a single modern political leader or party who has done anything to increase the ranks of the middle class since the late 70's.

Maybe it's time to move out of Jersey? Between the crappy winter there (S.A.D.) and the floundering economy, you need a change of pace. Go West!

When I got out of college, it looked awful out there too. 1994 was a recession year, not long after the one at the end of the Bush term. And then what happened? One of the greatest boom/busts I've even seen.

As for companies, I've worked at about 2 dozen, some as contractor, some as full time. There are ones out there that really do value their employees and act in ways for them to succeed. Big retirement benefits, or $100/month gym+sports benefits, and functional work at home policies. They're hard to get into- they don't have the same turnover, and they reward performance. Find one of them, one that gives you good work to do, and you'll feel a bit more positive about it all. If your current situation sucks, commit time to looking for a better one. In general, your performance drops when you don't like the place, and eventually it's obvious.

[wayneflorida 0]

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I've given this a good bit of thought last night.
4 martinis in and I just couldn't sleep......i keept thinking and thinking and trying to convince myself if the future would be any better than yesterday and much better than it is today.

And sadly I came to the conclusion that it will not be. The system is too big it is too entrenched and it is too powerful. And all this argument about politics of the far right or the far left....it's all meaningless. I can't think of a single modern political leader or party who has done anything to increase the ranks of the middle class since the late 70's.

I'm looking around and I see friends without job, i see friends who are highly qualified being paid less than what they are worth and doing the job of 3 individuals and hoping that they won't get laid off, i hear about middle class people skipping medication to cover heating or mortgage costs.

I look around and I don't see a way out. No new technology to help grow our economy, no new leader that has the balls to push the system to equality and we as a population well....we are a mess. The very system we rely on to save us in our later years is killing us now.

I hold my head low I really don't see anything getting any better over the next 10 years.

You just lost the game.

[lawrocket 3]

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. I can't think of a single modern political leader or party who has done anything to increase the ranks of the middle class since the late 70's.

I agree. They’ve made it far too easy to move down to a lower class. Back 100 years ago, people fought like hell to get out of the lower class because it was so bad. Nowadays, being poor is a lot easier than being middle class. You get covered for necessities and don’t have to do much. It’s a lot more fun being poor and on government assistance than dealing with asshole bosses.

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I'm looking around and I see friends without job, i see friends who are highly qualified being paid less than what they are worth and doing the job of 3 individuals and hoping that they won't get laid off,

What are you doing to fix that? How about opening your own business and hiring them away. If they are that qualified and that good, it should be easy for you to do it. I can tell you from experience that it ain’t that easy.

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i hear about middle class people skipping medication to cover heating or mortgage costs.

Yep. And I hear far less frequently about the middle class people who keep themselves off of medication by taking care of themselves. Again, the choice between eating in a nutritious manner and exercising is far less fun than eating poorly. A pill can take care of me so I don’t have to. I was on blood pressure meds. Then I started eating better. I don’t have to choose between meds and gas because there is no clinical justification for meds anymore.

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I look around and I don't see a way out.

I had that same thought when I was younger. Just surrounded by dead ends. Then I found out that the walls were pretty soft and with some effort I was able to MAKE a way out.

Here’s the thing: people will do plenty for you. Our politicians and leaders will help you to live. You can get food stamps and general aid. You can get these things and it’s fine. You’ll not be rich, but you’ll be. The basics are there for you.

To go further you CAN’T expect others to do it. I get ahead by taking risk. I’ve lost out on some risks and gained from others. But I am moving forward. It sucks. It’s tough. It might not work out. But I’ll have tried. I’d have an easier time, perhaps, if I didn’t have so many obstacles put out there. I could pay an employee $45k per year. The true cost of the employee after insurance, payroll taxes, etc., is more like $70k per year. These are costs that employees don’t see. How about permitting, licenses, etc? I want to open a sole proprietorship business, consider everything I need to do for it.

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No new technology to help grow our economy,

So invent it yourself. What will help the economy? Don’t expect someone else to do it. DO IT!

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no new leader that has the balls to push the system to equality

So become that leader. Push for equality. Don’t expect others to do it. Do it yourself!

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and we as a population well....we are a mess.

Your posts explains exactly why it is a mess. The population bitches about stuff that nobody is doing and these are things that they won’t do themselves. People all want to have jobs given to them, but none of them consider actually making jobs themselves. People want equality given to them but they won’t go work for it themselves. People aren’t willing to work FOR anything, anymore, because going AGAINST something it easier.

It’s far easier to complain than to act.

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The very system we rely on to save us in our later years is killing us now.

So work to change it.

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I hold my head low I really don't see anything getting any better over the next 10 years.

Holding your head low ensures that’s how it will be. Unless you work yourself to fix it. Improve yourself and you can improve it for others.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

Here is where we stand and why I'm depressed.
Every major downturn we have ever had we saved ourselves with technology that was available to the masses that created jobs and improved lives.

Great depression was limited by not only the war but also electricity
The down turn after WWII the national highway system
The down turn of the mid 90s we saw the internet.

as it stands there is nothing new to save us from ourselves. NOTHING
The rules of physics have been pushed to the edge, there is really nothing more that can come down the pipe to save us.

Yes there are some ultra out there technologies ranging from super fast computation to gene therapy but....there is nothing new to save us to create jobs due to demand.

We got aps....that's all we got aps.....good luck saving a nation of angry birds.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[lawrocket 3]

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Every major downturn we have ever had we saved ourselves with technology that was available to the masses that created jobs and improved lives.

Technology CAUSES downturns. Check out industrialization that put skilled laborers out of work and made the slave trade dominant.

Downturns are all reversed by collective mindset. The Depression didn't end until the War. The 1960's saw national hope in working towrds a goal (go to the moon) while fighting a war. The 1980's had Uncle Ronnie on the television focusing Americans being supreme to the Commies. The 1990's? removed by spurring investment in the internet. The 2000s? Property!

What's our problem? When I was a kid, those who had money and good income were what I wanted to attain. Now? Being look at them with disdain.

Success is to be punished. Who the fuck wants to take the lead in that?

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We got aps....that's all we got aps.....good luck saving a nation of angry birds

Yep. Angry birds is a lot more fun than balancing the books.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Every major downturn we have ever had we saved ourselves with technology that was available to the masses that created jobs and improved lives.
...
as it stands there is nothing new to save us from ourselves. NOTHING
The rules of physics have been pushed to the edge, there is really nothing more that can come down the pipe to save us.

Several people have given you good advice: get to work and make it happen! Don't rely on someone else to do it for you.

Here's some ideas to get you started:
1. Flying cars! Every 1950s "prediction" of the future had flying cars. Where are they? You're an engineer, make it happen.
2. Teleportation. Whatever happened to "beam me up Scotty"? What a game-changer that would be!

Of course I'm sure there are a lot of less ambitious things you could start with, that would still find a decent market.

I do think that a lot of the "malaise" that people feel is due to the fact that we have become largely consumers of entertainment, rather than being directly creative ourselves. We expect "the world" to provide us with music, movies/TV, professional sports, etc as well as the basic necessities of life. In times past people would learn to make their own music, or join a theater group, of actually play sports instead of paying other to play so we can watch. What a concept! Happiness doesn't reside in having the biggest plasma TV, it resides in creating things with your own hands and mind, and in the relationships we have with others. So stop moping and get to work!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[quade 3]

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i keept thinking and thinking and trying to convince myself if the future would be any better than yesterday and much better than it is today.

And sadly I came to the conclusion that it will not be.

Taken to its logical conclusion, yes, you're 100% right. At some point you'll die and that's almost never a good day.

Speaking of which . . . good day.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shah269 0]

You're an engineer, make it happen.

I love that....yeah go make it happen....screw the basic rules and laws of nature with respect to chemistry and electricity and well make it happen.

We are maxed out...no joke we are at the end of where technology can take us.
Sorry boys it's the end of the line as we know it.

We spent the last 10 yeas bumping up efficiencies and defect rates are at an all time low. Energy consumption is also at an all time low.
Congratulate ourselves we have made the worlds sharpest most efficient pencil

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[quade 3]

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Several people have given you good advice: get to work and make it happen! Don't rely on someone else to do it for you.

Here's some ideas to get you started:
1. Flying cars! Every 1950s "prediction" of the future had flying cars. Where are they? You're an engineer, make it happen.
2. Teleportation. Whatever happened to "beam me up Scotty"? What a game-changer that would be!

Thinking you're going to have a better life by thinking you'll invent something that is either woefully impractical or outright impossible is not really the way to go. What you would want to invent is something that is JUST NOW within the grasp of technology. All the technological stars have aligned to enable the world to just now produce widget x and widget Y and you're going to glue them together in a way nobody has ever thought of before.

Stop thinking "flying cars" and "teleporters." Start thinking, "What would actually be better than an iPad and does it look as if the technology exists that I can get all the parts to make it happen?"

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Thinking you're going to have a better life by thinking you'll invent something that is either woefully impractical or outright impossible is not really the way to go. What you would want to invent is something that is JUST NOW within the grasp of technology. All the technological stars have aligned to enable the world to just now produce widget x and widget Y and you're going to glue them together in a way nobody has ever thought of before.

Stop thinking "flying cars" and "teleporters." Start thinking, "What would actually be better than an iPad and does it look as if the technology exists that I can get all the parts to make it happen?"

Well sure, I just thought it would be amusing if he really did try to tackle a flying car. On the other hand, an incrementally better iPad might make a lot of money, but I can't really see that as a world-changing breakthrough leap forward, on the scale of the invention of radio or airplanes or the transistor or antibiotics. I guess that's part of why I like working in basic research, you never know what you'll discover. Personally I think the next real breakthrough technologies will be in bioengineering.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[lawrocket 3]

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We are maxed out...no joke we are at the end of where technology can take us.

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"The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end." - Henry Ellsworth, US Patent Office Commissioner, 1843 Report to Congress

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[shah269 0]

no brother we are done, can't tell you how i know this but....we are done.
technology has saturated the world every superpower is equal in all aspects of technology.

there does not appear to be any "hints" of any new venue for venture that will fuel the growth of the middle class, no electricity, no highway system, no telecommunication no internet.....it's all maxed out.
All you have now are apps worthless pos apps and more and more and more six sigma.

we have hit an energy barrier and there is no crossing it until someone figures out a new energy source. because chemistry is maxed out.

we are with out a doubt fucked. the next 10 years like the last 10 will see great advancements in financial engineering where a very select few will do very very very well while the rest of us.....will be buying apps and apps and yes more apps......

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>The rules of physics have been pushed to the edge, there is really nothing more that
>can come down the pipe to save us.

1843, Patent Office commissioner Henry L. Ellsworth: "The advancement of the arts, from year to year, taxes our credulity and seems to presage the arrival of that period when human improvement must end."

Clyde Tombaugh detractor, 1929: "Young man, I am afraid you are wasting your time. If there were any more planets they would have been found long before this."

Simon Newcomb, 1900: "Aerial flight is one of that class of problems with which man will never be able to cope."

William H. Pickering, 1910: "The popular mind often pictures gigantic flying machines speeding across the Atlantic carrying innumerable passengers in a way analogous to our modern steamships. It seems safe to say that such ideas are wholly visionary."

The New York Times, 1920: "We hope the Professor from Clark College (Robert H. Goddard) is only pretending to be ignorant of elementary physics if he thinks that a rocket can work in a vacuum."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Clyde Tombaugh detractor, 1929: "Young man, I am afraid you are wasting your time. If there were any more planets they would have been found long before this."

See! They were right. He spent all that time and effort and never found a planet. All he found was Pluto which he called a planet in a cheap stunt in order to get more grants.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Clyde Tombaugh detractor, 1929: "Young man, I am afraid you are wasting your time. If there were any more planets they would have been found long before this."

See! They were right. He spent all that time and effort and never found a planet. All he found was Pluto which he called a planet in a cheap stunt in order to get more grants.

score!

http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/sciencemath/8964/

[billvon 2,400]

I was actually thinking of the 708 planets we've discovered since then.

[kelpdiver 2]

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All you have now are apps worthless pos apps and more and more and more six sigma.

I'm incredibly optimistic to see what comes out in the next 5 years in what you deem "worthless apps." The combination of the portable smart phone and back end servers via cellular offer awesome capability that extend well beyond angry birds. We're well past just having reading material on tap while doing something - it can be an integral part of the event, processing what occurs and reacting to it.

From an individual perspective, there is great money to be had this route.

[BIGUN 1,053]

This `telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a practical form of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.
- Western Union internal memo, 1878

What use could this company make of an electrical toy?
- Western Union president William Orton, responding to an offer from Alexander Graham Bell to sell his telephone company to Western Union for $100,000.

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.
- Editorial in the Boston Post (1865)

Radio has no future.
- Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), British mathematician and physicist, ca. 1897.

While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially I consider it an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming.
- Lee DeForest, 1926 (American radio pioneer and inventor of the vacuum tube.)

[Television] won't be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.
- Darryl F. Zanuck, head of 20th Century-Fox, 1946.

SOURCE: [url]http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/neverwrk.htm

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.