Abortion

[Heatmiser 0]

Quote

Quote

So what do you think?

Should abortion be legal?

Is that mass of cells a baby or a choice?

Where's the option for "Legal until the fetus can vote?"

I didn't find it either, so I put it in in post 12.

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

The age old standard was, abortion justified only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

That wasn't THE standard, it was ONE standard. And you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

In any event, induced abortion has been around, in various forms, and in various cultures, for thousands of years. The ethical and legal "standards" surrounding it have been as varied as the diversity in times and the diversity in cultures.

[deltron80 0]

I'm totally pro-choice, but I have to seriously question why you would ever get a "late-term abortion," or worse yet, they apparently now are doing "reduction" abortions where they kill one of 2 twins...wow

http://www.slate.com/id/2301322/

[champu 1]

I've got it... Abortion...



...vending machines.

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

Quote

The age old standard was, abortion justified only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

That wasn't THE standard, it was ONE standard. And you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

In any event, induced abortion has been around, in various forms, and in various cultures, for thousands of years. The ethical and legal "standards" surrounding it have been as varied as the diversity in times and the diversity in cultures.

I stand corrected. It was a hasty answer.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Coreece 190]

Quote

you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

I've noticed that people like to bring up rape an incest as if that small minority justifies the 90% of women who kill their child for reasons similar to that of your typical 1st degree murderer.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[oldwomanc6 38]

BTW, an IUD is a known abortifacient, and the pill can be argued the same.

This issue is definitely not black and white. Certainly not simple.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

I've noticed that people like to bring up rape an incest as if that small minority justifies the 90% of women who kill their child for reasons similar to that of your typical 1st degree murderer.

You've taken my comment completely out of context.
In any event, please don't paint me with your silly broad brush. My post stands on its own, not for the spin you put on it.

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Quote

Quote

you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

I've noticed that people like to bring up rape an incest as if that small minority justifies the 90% of women who kill their child for reasons similar to that of your typical 1st degree murderer.

You've taken my comment completely out of context.
In any event, please don't paint me with your silly broad brush. My post stands on its own, not for the spin you put on it.

I understand that...I didn't mean to implicate you.

I've just been waiting for someone to open that door...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

The age old standard was, abortion justified only when the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

That wasn't THE standard, it was ONE standard. And you left out "or cases of rape or incest".

In any event, induced abortion has been around, in various forms, and in various cultures, for thousands of years. The ethical and legal "standards" surrounding it have been as varied as the diversity in times and the diversity in cultures.

Question: If a person goes up to a woman who is nine months pregnant with a gun they brought specifically for the purpose of shooting the said woman in the abdomen with the intent to kill the foetus, can they be prosecuted for murder if the foetus is destroyed?

(Not being a smart arse I simply don't know the legal answer to that question)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Coreece 190]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

Wow. Have you seen an ultrasound?

You can't see Ultrasound

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

You are really willing to say that an 8 month pregnancy can be terminated on the whim of the mother? I am straight up in favor of early term abortion, But I always thought the weak link in the pro choice argument is that a women should be able to do with her body as she pleases at any point in the pregnancy.

I mean 1 week before the due date, it is baby and it's murder.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

Wow. Have you seen an ultrasound?

You can't see Ultrasound

Your smarter than that:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasound

[quade 3]

Quote

But I always thought the weak link in the pro choice argument is that a women should be able to do with her body as she pleases at any point in the pregnancy.

But that is an extremist view very few people take.

If you look into history, very few people up until the last 100 or so years had any problem at all with abortion up until the moment of "quickening."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

OK, so then (and you may not know this answer) what if a Dr performed an abortion on a foetus a week past the legal limit for abortion (would be almost impossible to prove) would they be open to a charge of murder?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[winsor 187]

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

Wow. Have you seen an ultrasound?

It is okay to have emotions, and it is as ill advised to ignore them as it is to try to pass emotion off as rationality.

Not all emotional decisions are bad ones, admitted - but all too many are.

There are few emotions stronger than the bond between a parent and a child, particularly a newborn. The instinct to protect is consummate, and the value placed on that defenseless little life outweighs everything else.

Having said that, termination of pregnancy in the first trimester is often the only ethically responsible option. It should not be an easy decision, but it should be made in as dispassionate a manner as possible.


BSBD,

Winsor

[Southern_Man 0]

Quote

Question: If a person goes up to a woman who is nine months pregnant with a gun they brought specifically for the purpose of shooting the said woman in the abdomen with the intent to kill the foetus, can they be prosecuted for murder if the foetus is destroyed?

(Not being a smart arse I simply don't know the legal answer to that question)

Totally depends on the jurisdiction. Quite a few states have passed various fetal protection statutes. Some pro-choice people see these as a camel's nose under the tent by establishing that the fetus is a person.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

You are really willing to say that an 8 month pregnancy can be terminated on the whim of the mother? I am straight up in favor of early term abortion, But I always thought the weak link in the pro choice argument is that a women should be able to do with her body as she pleases at any point in the pregnancy.

I mean 1 week before the due date, it is baby and it's murder.

Nope .. not saying that ... just bored and yanking some chains

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

[over simplification 101] - her choice .. and it's only murder after the birth

Wow. Have you seen an ultrasound?

You can't see Ultrasound

Your smarter than that:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasound

maybe I am... cuz I can't see Ultrasound (Ultrasound is cyclic sound pressure with a frequency greater than the upper limit of human hearing.) ......BUT..... I can see a sonogram that is produced using ultrasound

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Your standard.... is as long as YOU or one of your buddies had fun... then the woman deserves to be punished as she has for many many thousands of years by having YOUR child.

Hey its the conservative way

The woman can say no, demand the use of condoms, take birth control pills or, have an IUD.

It's THEIR child.

RIIIIIIGHT. Ron... that has worked SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOfucking well thruout history

[Channman 2]

Quote

whatever makes people sleep at night, I guess...

Hasn't there been several examples of men being convicted for the killing their wifes (Scott Peterson) and while doing so caused the death of an un-born fetus.

Now, just wondering out loud here, but if a court of law can convict for murder as well as hold you responsible for the death of an un-born child, is it because they see the fetus as life.

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

Your standard.... is as long as YOU or one of your buddies had fun... then the woman deserves to be punished as she has for many many thousands of years by having YOUR child.

Hey its the conservative way

The woman can say no, demand the use of condoms, take birth control pills or, have an IUD.

It's THEIR child.

Are you saying that both parties should take responsibility by 'It's THEIR child.', in your statement? I sure do hope you're not, on the other hand, putting it all on the woman!? I'm a bit confused.


Chuck

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Quote

whatever makes people sleep at night, I guess...

Hasn't there been several examples of men being convicted for the killing their wifes (Scott Peterson) and while doing so caused the death of an un-born fetus.

Now, just wondering out loud here, but if a court of law can convict for murder as well as hold you responsible for the death of an un-born child, is it because they see the fetus as life.

Here are some links that address that particular issue (in the US) both at the Federal and (various) state levels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14386

[billvon 2,435]

>You are really willing to say that an 8 month pregnancy can be terminated on the whim
>of the mother?

And are you really willing to say that if a doctor determines that carrying a child to term will put the mother at risk of death - that a politician should decide to put her life at risk? Would you want a politician to tell your daughter "I don't really care if you die, you're not terminating that pregnancy?" (to take the opposite emotional extreme)

Until the moment of birth the life of the child and the mother are inextricably linked, and cannot be reduced to simple sound bites or simple rules. Abortion is morally wrong, and its "wrongness" is proportional to the imminence of the birth. But the final decision must rest with the mother and her doctor.