This is Going to Sound Pretentious, but...(Federal vs. County Jury Duty)

[wildcard451 0]

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will want the best and brightest people on that jury.

The whole point of the jury system is that you do not get the best and brightest on the jury, nor are you supposed to. The judge may be the best and brightest in his/her field. The lawyers may be the best and brightest in their fields.

But the whole point of the way the system is set up is that the jury is supposed to consist of 12 very ordinary people of very ordinary ability and intelligence.

Bullshit. If I ever go to court for a medical case, I want 12 highly educated, professional people on that jury. That is a jury of my professional peers. Preferably physicians.

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>I think our justice system is important enough that we should have a dress
>code and a code of behavior in place for jurors and others who participate in
>the court process and if you don't comply, there should be repercussions.

We have a dress code that is "Business casual dress is recommended." People show up in basically whatever they wear every day. Seems to work.

Our justice system is indeed important. What people wear while they are there isn't.

>It is not costly to look presentable.

Nope. It's not costly to wear a wig either - and they think that's real important to the legal system in the UK. We don't. Our system still seems to work OK.

Well, that's where you and I differ greatly. People will generally raise the tenor of their behavior to how they appear. Not always but often. And the judicial system is one that should be given the respect and deference of nicer dress, not sloppiness. These things matter. Same reason you don't go meeting important heads of state dressed like a bum. Their office matters.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Bullshit. If I ever go to court for a medical case, I want 12 highly educated, professional people on that jury. That is a jury of my professional peers. Preferably physicians.

So if a doctor is on trial for malpractice, only other doctors should be on the jury? Sorry, but that's not the way the system works, at least not in the USA.

A jury is not a professional ethics review board.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[pyrotech 0]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ... that's actually kind of an odd thing.

Most places that I've known have had sort of a minimal dress code: casual clothes are fine, within reason; but shorts, t-shirts or rubber flip-flops will get you sent home with orders to change and get back there pronto.

It never ceases to amaze me how many adults show up in court dressed like slobs unless they're told in advance to do otherwise.

I was summoned to jury duty once, and read the requested dress code. I showed up in shorts and a t-shirt, and was sent home, with a request to return. I told the lady that if I went home, I was just going back into work, because I didn't own nice clothes. They sent me home, and I didn't return. Didn't hear anything about it after that. My duty as a citizen is to appear for a jury duty summons. I do not see it as my duty to adhere to a dress code. I'm glad they seemed to see it the same way, being as I never heard another word from them.

I've seen judges come very close to locking jurors up for contempt for pulling exactly that stunt. A court must be treated with a modicum of respect. Plus, if you are picked for a jury, you ARE part of the court. You want to be sworn in, sit in a jury box and hold yourself out to the public as someone administering justice while dressed like you're wasting away in Margaritaville? You going to tell me you didn't have a single clean pair of pants and button-down shirt? Bullshit. And for your flagrant refusal to come back, you should have had a bench warrant issued for you, as far as I'm concerned.

Look up the term "contempt of court" in the encyclopedia. It might have your picture next to it.

With the crave for a power trip like that, I'm glad you're not in the position to hold me accountable for what I wear.

I wear shorts and t-shirt to work. I wear it out to dinner, to visit with family, and when I go out to bars. The only time I dress up is to go to a wedding or a funeral, and I rent clothes for those occasions. I was 18 when I was summoned to jury. I did not own a single shirt that buttoned down the front, nor a pair of slacks. I now own 2 pairs of slacks, 2 shirts that button, 2 bow ties and 2 regular ties, and 1 black belt and pair of black shoes. I only wear them to job interviews, and they have been in storage for about 6 months now.

I don't see how showing up for jury duty, where chances are I won't get picked to sit on a jury anyway, only to be told (I assume) to show up at a later date for a trial, would require me to dig out clothes that some stranger may find more appropriate or attractive than what I would wear any other day. Should I also shave my mohawk, take out my piercings, and cover my tattoos, just in case someone may find them disrespectful? If you feel that should require some sort of legal action to use tax-payers' dollars to contain me for x amount of time, then where's Brutus when we need him?

Look up ""fascist" in the encyclopedia. It very well may have your picture next to it.

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will want the best and brightest people on that jury.

The whole point of the jury system is that you do not get the best and brightest on the jury, nor are you supposed to. The judge may be the best and brightest in his/her field. The lawyers may be the best and brightest in their fields.

But the whole point of the way the system is set up is that the jury is supposed to consist of 12 very ordinary people of very ordinary ability and intelligence.

Perhaps I didn't quite make my point as clear as I could have... if those that are more intelligent, have more advanced degrees, make a higher wage, are involved in professions that would tempt them to shirk jury duty ("i'm too important to do this"), then who is left to serve? those who can't shirk? I'm not also trying to be pretentious about this either but think about this for a second. i truly want to be tried by a jury of my peers, not a randomly selection of unemployed, uneducated people who really do not want to be there and are not interested in fulfilling their civic responsibility and metering out justice the way our system was designed. jury selection is supposed to help w/ that, but if all you have to choose from are those who were too dumb to figure out how to get out of serving, that doesn't bode well for the innocently accused or for the victims seeking justice.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[squirrel 0]

well, you could get a note from your doctor to permanently dismiss you from jury duty because you can not sit for long periods of time. but that might mean having two 14" titanium rods and 3 dozens screws put in your back, like my wife.

i simply mention that i had a family member involved in the drug trade that was murdered. they kick me out the door every time.

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

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Bullshit. If I ever go to court for a medical case, I want 12 highly educated, professional people on that jury. That is a jury of my professional peers. Preferably physicians.

So if a doctor is on trial for malpractice, only other doctors should be on the jury? Sorry, but that's not the way the system works, at least not in the USA.

A jury is not a professional ethics review board.

You're misrepresenting what he said. He didn't say it should all be physicians. The makeup of the jury should, however, be more representative of who HE is. You may as well have said he wants the entire jury to all be white, male, jewish, ages 50-65 who make 300 grand+ per year as plastic surgeons and who have mistresses in miami. how absurd. it's just as absurd to think the jury should be all poor blacks who don't give a damn about sticking it to a rich white doctor b/c their lives suck living in the projects.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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I don't get the concern over what people were wearing.

I like you, however, you stated the CEO, doctor, lawyer, cops, EMT's, Navy guys and one Marine were "not dressed like you'd expect, either". Such a statement leaves room for interpretation, but I would expect all of the above would not be dressed in any way that would show disrespect to the court to which they were summoned.

The concern is that it appeared the 600+ people summoned did not give a shit where they were or what their civil duty was--they just hoped they were not arrested for non-appearance.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Recently, I was called to county jury duty and I felt like I had missed the memo on what I should have done or said to get out of it. Despite the clear directions for men to wear a coat and tie and women to wear a dress or pant suit, not a single man I saw had a coat, much less a tie and most of the women were in spandex, t-shirts and highly inappropriate clothing.

I figure I have a duty to serve, was juror #5 and foreman of the jury in a felony child abuse case in county superior court (a mother duct-taped her out of control 17 year old daughter to a hope chest), and would do it again - I made a big difference by talking the 11 other jurors out of a guilty vote on one of the felony charges because the term 'with violence' wasn't met as defined in the law.

I didn't and wouldn't dress any different than I do for work or a $200 dinner for two - clean single colored T-shirt without holes, khaki shorts or dockers depending on temperature, and a black fleece jacket so I don't freeze in the air-conditioning.

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People were loud, obnoxious, spoke poorly and lacked any kind of decorum. The chairs were stacked on top of one another and despite my best efforts, I was elbowed on each side and kicked once from behind.

We were all well-behaved apart from a bunch of people trying lame excuses to get out of it and a couple of people who didn't show up and were rewarded with bench warrants.

If some one was elbowing or kicking me I'd probably ask the judge if they could be arrested for assault and battery.

[quade 3]

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The concern is that it appeared the 600+ people summoned did not give a shit where they were or what their civil duty was--they just hoped they were not arrested for non-appearance.

Wasn't it Woody Allen that said, "Ninety percent of life is just showing up"?

Well, they showed up.

It's not their fault they don't meet somebody else's standard or expectations.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Shotgun 1]

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I've never heard of a dress code for jury duty, though ...

In my county, the dress code is "no shorts." I served on a two-month trial and pretty much wore jeans the whole time, because that's what I own.

Wardrobe aside, I found it to be an interesting experience. I didn't like some of the other jurors, and some of them probably didn't like me, but I think the idea was to have some diversity.

[Squeak 17]

"Judged by their peers"

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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Well, that's where you and I differ greatly. People will generally raise the tenor of their behavior to how they appear. Not always but often. And the judicial system is one that should be given the respect and deference of nicer dress, not sloppiness. These things matter

I have to agree. In federal, many of the people I spoke to were from what I call "the sticks"--i.e. the country/middle of the state. While I can see the ocean from my house, I do not live very far from the city. Still, I was most impressed by the folks from "the sticks" that showed up in their "Sunday best", despite the lengthy commute and obligations at home and work and showed respect and class. Again, federal was a neat experience; I value the time I spent with some of those people, however inconvenienced we all were.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[Squeak 17]

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Well, that's where you and I differ greatly. People will generally raise the tenor of their behavior to how they appear. Not always but often. And the judicial system is one that should be given the respect and deference of nicer dress, not sloppiness. These things matter

I have to agree. In federal, many of the people I spoke to were from what I call "the sticks"--i.e. the country/middle of the state. While I can see the ocean from my house, I do not live very far from the city. Still, I was most impressed by the folks from "the sticks" that showed up in their "Sunday best", despite the lengthy commute and obligations at home and work and showed respect and class. Again, federal was a neat experience; I value the time I spent with some of those people, however inconvenienced we all were.

your posts smack of elitism and snobbery quite possibly why you were elbowed and kicked

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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The concern is that it appeared the 600+ people summoned did not give a shit where they were or what their civil duty was--they just hoped they were not arrested for non-appearance.

Wasn't it Woody Allen that said, "Ninety percent of life is just showing up"?

Well, they showed up.

It's not their fault they don't meet somebody else's standard or expectations.

Really, you are quoting Woody Allen?

I think to myself "Self? Would I rather they show up or be honest about their intentions?"

Showing up is slightly better than not caring at all; it certainly is not 90% of anything. You might as well say, "What goes around comes around."

You either do what you believe is the right thing to do for nothing in return, or do it because you think you have completed 90% of said task and it will all come back to you in this life or the next. I do not know about the latter/s, but I show up because I believe it is the right thing to do and for nothing else.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[quade 3]

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Really, you are quoting Woody Allen?

One of the most prolific and honored screenwriters and directors of our time known for his brilliant insights of the human condition? Yeah . . . why would I do that?

Maybe we just "need the eggs."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Beerlight 0]

I'm still waiting for the punchline..! I mean, it was a joke, right?

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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One of the most prolific and honored screenwriters and directors of our time known for his brilliant insights of the human condition? Yeah . . . why would I do that?

Because you are in screenwriting class and not thinking for yourself.



I like you, too. Disappointed, nonetheless.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[faulknerwn 36]

I don't currently own anything that would fit that dress code! I own some nice looking black jeans (can pass for slacks) and a short sleeve polo shirt and a few sweaters but I don't own any business suits or dresses.

For people where money is tight having to go out and buy nice clothing can be prohibitive...

[billvon 2,406]

>People will generally raise the tenor of their behavior to how they appear.

Which, I imagine, is how the English system justifies their wigs. "Respect for the court" and all that.

But overall, people who need to be dressed well to act well are idiots, and we are better off without them on juries.

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

Black jeans and a short-sleeved polo shirt would have been a breath of fresh air, Faulkner.

For the record, I am not much of a dress-wearing chick, either.

"Nice clothing" was not asked for--a dress or pants suit was. I wore a (nice) pants suit.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[billvon 2,406]

>Such a statement leaves room for interpretation, but I would expect all of the above
>would not be dressed in any way that would show disrespect to the court to which they
>were summoned.

I didn't think so; they seemed to be wearing what they normally wore. Surfers wore board shorts, one military guy wore camos, a CEO wore a polo shirt. I'm sure there are people who would find all of that disrespectful. No one in San Diego seemed to have a problem with it.

>The concern is that it appeared the 600+ people summoned did not give a shit
>where they were or what their civil duty was . . .

?? If there were people who showed up and then refused to serve as jurors, then I agree with you - that's a waste of everyone's time, and just causes muckups in the justice system.

But dissing people who aren't dressing up for jury duty is like abusing blood donors because they're not wearing a tie when they come in to donate. Overall I'd think you would want to thank the people who show up to help out, not discourage them.

[faulknerwn 36]

But a pants suit? I don't own anything like that. Nor dresses... What I described is the fanciest clothes I own :-)

[CarrieByTheSea 0]

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But dissing people who aren't dressing up for jury duty is like abusing blood donors because they're not wearing a tie when they come in to donate. Overall I'd think you would want to thank the people who show up to help out, not discourage them.

I disagree.

I am not obligated as a citizen to donate blood. I do, because I am O/universal donor and I give a shit. They even gave me a key chain, because I rock.

"Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be." ~ Temple Grandin

[billvon 2,406]

>I am not obligated as a citizen to donate blood.

Right. And you can get out of jury duty legally. We should encourage people who are willing to serve on juries, not discourage them - even if they don't have a pants suit or a dress.

If I'm ever on trial for something, I want Wendy on the jury - not a car salesman in a natty suit.