daily TSA f#$k-up thread

[nigel99 144]

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The system is broken and it needs to be fixed or slowly the world will return to a state where countries are isolated and the barriers go up again.

Well, seperation of church and state seem to be working quite well...maybe segregation is actually a good thing.

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tipping point will be reached where airport security will make the average person question whether that vacation or business trip is really worth the hassle.

Ya right...I'll take a hand up the crotch and pose nude before I give up my freedoms!

Separation good? Well when you are paying 4 or 5 times the current amount for goods as they are made at home rather than China that is your choice.

Similarly when travel restrictions between other parts of the world are less onerous than the US it could simply fade away from the world stage although this is unlikely to happen as we in Europe tend to lead the way in piling on restrictions.

In the UK people taking holidays at home is on the increase. I believe the main driver is economic though rather than the hassles of flying as we are lucky enough to be able to use alternatives.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Bill, you're trying to hit me over the head and then say I'm missing your point. I'm not missing your point. You don't want body scanners because you don't think we need them and your afraid the dolts a the TSA are going to post scanned photos of your willy. That's what I keep hearing from you. I'm sure you'll accuse me of not listening. I've tried to listen, but body scanners?? WTF... what-ever. If you really want me to listen to what you have to say, try again. However, this is getting tiresome as I'm sure you're tired of me.


DSE, I didn't say you said that I said that's what I hear y'all saying. I agree with you that there is cause for concern over erosion of freedoms in the US, but I don't agree with you that body scanners are the most egregious example of that. Can't we go after the bigger ticket items first?

[winsor 186]

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>You know how ludicrous it sounds coming from someone who jumps out of
>airplanes for fun that they don't want to go through a body scanner
>because it might be dangerous?

I jump out of airplanes but I don't smoke! I also don't do drugs, and I don't get in a car if a drunk guy is going to be driving. Think I'm "ludicrous" too?

Ooops, I forgot to hit spell check before hitting post reply. License for Bill to make fun of me.

Looks like you missed the main point Bill made, then. It *wasn't* about the spelling.

Nope I caught that! See I'm not as ignorant as y'all accuse me of being.

Note: the surest guarantee that you're dealing with an idiot is if they start off with "I'm not an idiot..."

[DSE 3]

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DSE, I didn't say you said that I said that's what I hear y'all saying. I agree with you that there is cause for concern over erosion of freedoms in the US, but I don't agree with you that body scanners are the most egregious example of that. Can't we go after the bigger ticket items first?

I'd suggest you need to listen more closely.
You keep unrelated problems into this discussion. Ever heard the story about the "camel's nose?"

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3488713#3488713
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1223718#1223718

What is more egregious than giving up liberties for zero gain? Obviously most Americans see clearly through this sham.

Take us back to the days immediately following 9/11 if necessary. I'd MUCH rather have the US Marines standing at arms in the airport than have a fugly pervert paid to pluck my pubes.

[billvon 2,406]

>You don't want body scanners because you don't think we need them and
>your afraid the dolts a the TSA are going to post scanned photos of your
>willy.

Nope, you've missed the point again.

>That's what I keep hearing from you. I'm sure you'll accuse me of not
>listening.

I think you're making up an argument, then pretending I'm using it because it's easier to argue with.

So I'll give up on that tack. How about this one:

How would body scanners have stopped the 9/11 terrorists?

[winsor 186]

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>You don't want body scanners because you don't think we need them and
>your afraid the dolts a the TSA are going to post scanned photos of your
>willy.

Nope, you've missed the point again.

>That's what I keep hearing from you. I'm sure you'll accuse me of not
>listening.

I think you're making up an argument, then pretending I'm using it because it's easier to argue with.

So I'll give up on that tack. How about this one:

How would body scanners have stopped the 9/11 terrorists?

I know, I know!

They would be too shy to go through them, and everyone would have lived happily ever after!

Terrorists are real modest.

[diablopilot 2]

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A tipping point will be reached where airport security will make the average person question whether that vacation or business trip is really worth the hassle.

Too late.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[LongWayToFall 0]

Yes sorry, I meant racial profiling.

For what it is worth, on wednesday, I WAS selected to go through the body scanner. It seemed about 1/2 to 1/3 of people were asked to go through it. I DID deny the scanner, and was patted down. It took about 3-4 minutes, and wasn't all that bad. The guy was very clear with what he was going to do before he did it, and maintained a professional attitude. Overall it was not as bad as I thought, and my balls were not finagled.
Also, I didn't see any other person opt out of the scan.

[nigel99 144]

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A tipping point will be reached where airport security will make the average person question whether that vacation or business trip is really worth the hassle.

Too late.

I am not sure I agree, I don't think we are there yet but we are getting very close. Yes have relatively young kids (11) and now that we have had a holiday in the USA we would probably drive/train into Europe for our next vacation.

When I go to France and Brussels for business I take the train as it is easier and quicker than flying. For business there is some way to go before I reconsider flying as an option and in fact we are currently looking to start offering our services in the US.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[bigbearfng 9]

Gawd I loved this one!!!!
__________________________________________________
Don't know the author of this...received it from a friend....

"The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It's an armored booth you step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on your person. They see this as a win-win situation for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . .

"Attention standby passengers, we now have a seat available on flight #6709.”"
________________________________________________

[Amazon 7]

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Gawd I loved this one!!!!
__________________________________________________
Don't know the author of this...received it from a friend....

"The Israelis are developing an airport security device that eliminates the privacy concerns that come with full-body scanners at the airports.

It's an armored booth you step into that will not X-ray you, but will detonate any explosive device you may have on your person. They see this as a win-win situation for everyone, with none of this crap about racial profiling. It also would eliminate the costs of a long and expensive trial. Justice would be swift. Case closed!

You're in the airport terminal and you hear a muffled explosion. Shortly thereafter an announcement comes over the PA system . . .

"Attention standby passengers, we now have a seat available on flight #6709.”"
________________________________________________

Just the idea I had the other day... problem solved

I think its quite humane...it is just helping those guys get to where they want to go, without their being able to take anyone else out with them. I do no0t mind if they have a bit of a dissappointment if they have to travel alone.

[Kennedy 0]

I'm not against the idea, I just don't see how it would work. How do you set off plastic explosives that don't have any kind of receiver. More importantly, how do you set off explosives that don't have a detonator or ignition device? If you can make it work, go for it, but the day one works is the last day bombers try to get on a plane. From then on they'd just detonate in the airport terminal or other target location.

Which would affect more people, taking out a plane in the air, or blowog up a subway car in Manhattan?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[champu 1]

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I'm not against the idea, I just don't see how it would work.

I don't think it was a serious suggestion.

The only sure fire way to detonate explosives of all the various types out there is with more explosives.

[billvon 2,406]

>I'm not against the idea . . .

It's a joke.

[GQ_jumper 4]

This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

When you buy a plane ticket you are agreeing to undergo whatever searches are imposed upon travelers so why are people complaining about these things? They are not guaranteed the privilege to be able to fly by any law. People EXPECT things because air travel has become the norm because everyone wants to be somewhere RIGHT NOW and refuse to take slower forms of transportation. No rights are being violated, you said you were OK with the TSA searches when you bought the ticket and your consent was implied by the purchase. Yes I understand the TSA is populated by social rejects who lack a basic education and common decency, but if you don't want to deal with them you don't have to fly.

And all the self-righteous around here accusing those who understand and agree with the searches of being brainwashed drones who give up their liberties are full of shit. We want to fly, and we want to fly safely, and I don't mind having someone grope my balls or look under my clothes with a scanner if it means I can sleep soundly on my flight.

Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[nigel99 144]

Not speaking for anyone else but this is my opinion.

1) Flying is not a right but freedom to travel and the ability to go about your daily life without constant intervention from the government is.

2) Being treated politely and respectfully may not be a right but it is something that "customers" expect.

3) Being protected by your government is probably a right.

Taking the above into account a reasonable level of politeness and consideration should be given. The US should not be a police state and therefore you should be allowed to question and interact with a TSA employee in a reasonable manner. IF searches and screening are effective then I think people should be more tolerant.

If things continue along these lines slowly people will migrate from air-travel towards alternative means. So next stop Amtrak and Greyhound will have TSA inspections before entering a train or bus. The next logical step will be to drive at which point there could logically be TSA manned tollbooths and checkpoints on the Interstates.

I think the main point is you can't sleep soundly on your flight as the groping and scanning might make you feel better but do little to counter real threats.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[kelpdiver 2]

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This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

So following this line of thought - for anything not spelled out in the Constitution, we should and must put up with strip searches to do it? I think you missed one of the items in the Bill of Rights.

Utter failure at civics. And not to waste too much time on this theory, we don't have a right to drive either, so you suggest we walk everywhere then.

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Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

It used to mean that. What you espouse is loser talk.

[happythoughts 0]

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How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

The constitution states general guidelines.
Then, the laws passed by Congress define them.

There are many laws that protect us from things like
"upskirt videos" in public, or people exposing a womens
breasts in a public area, or touching children in private areas of their bodies. There are laws against all these
things, for good reasons, and there are videos/links posted
on this thread that illustrate all these examples.

In one link that I posted, they frisked a young child
because she wouldn't stand still enough for the scanner. Frisking a screaming 3 yo., that makes
me feel safer.

[GQ_jumper 4]

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1) Flying is not a right but freedom to travel and the ability to go about your daily life without constant intervention from the government is.

Nigel you are absolutely right, and if you don't want to have your daily life interrupted by the government you are free to travel by other means. Based on your line of thinking a Police officer enforcing the speed limit would be a form of intervention from the government we should be free from as well, am I correct?

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So following this line of thought - for anything not spelled out in the Constitution, we should and must put up with strip searches to do it? I think you missed one of the items in the Bill of Rights.

Utter failure at civics. And not to waste too much time on this theory, we don't have a right to drive either, so you suggest we walk everywhere then.

Apparently the reading comprehension section of the SAT raped your brain of any ability to grasp the basic meaning of a passage. I'll go ahead and skip discussing this further with you since you've lowered yourself to insulting undertones in your replies. When you want to talk like a grown up come find me.

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Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

It used to mean that. What you espouse is loser talk.

Loser talk really? Wow, you sure burned me.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

[doughboyshred 0]

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This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?
.

Is this a real question?

Where are we guaranteed the right to play with our penises? Where are we guaranteed the right to ride a bike? Where are we guaranteed the right wipe our asses?

Do you honestly think the only rights we have are the ones spelled out explicitly in the constitution?

[doughboyshred 0]

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And all the self-righteous around here accusing those who understand and agree with the searches of being brainwashed drones who give up their liberties are full of shit. We want to fly, and we want to fly safely, and I don't mind having someone grope my balls or look under my clothes with a scanner if it means I can sleep soundly on my flight.

.

I'm not willing to give up my freedoms because you're scared.

Where else do you want to feel safe? At a shopping mall? At sporting events? On buses and trains. Hell, lets just have manned digital strip search checkpoints everywhere. Fuck our rights, at least you'll feel safe.

[champu 1]

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Nigel you are absolutely right, and if you don't want to have your daily life interrupted by the government you are free to travel by other means.

That's being a bit silly, but I appreciate the devil's advocacy.

One problem is that the DHS/TSA has stepped in and imposed itself on the air travel industry. At first it was welcome because, "holy crap a lot of people were killed," but as time goes on they are imposing further in an ineffective way. And whether it's on an individual or agency level is up for debate, but they forgetting their place.

Now, technically having the TSA at the airport is optional, so we may see some airports give them the boot if they don't shape up. At that point you will be free to take to other modes of transportation if you don't feel safe enough flying.

[DSE 3]

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This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

When you buy a plane ticket you are agreeing to undergo whatever searches are imposed upon travelers so why are people complaining about these things? They are not guaranteed the privilege to be able to fly by any law. People EXPECT things because air travel has become the norm because everyone wants to be somewhere RIGHT NOW and refuse to take slower forms of transportation. No rights are being violated, you said you were OK with the TSA searches when you bought the ticket and your consent was implied by the purchase. Yes I understand the TSA is populated by social rejects who lack a basic education and common decency, but if you don't want to deal with them you don't have to fly.

And all the self-righteous around here accusing those who understand and agree with the searches of being brainwashed drones who give up their liberties are full of shit. We want to fly, and we want to fly safely, and I don't mind having someone grope my balls or look under my clothes with a scanner if it means I can sleep soundly on my flight.

Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

The constitution doesn't explicity give the right to the TSA (or any government agency) to remove leg braces from a four year old boy that can't walk, it doesn't explicity give Homeland Security the right to feel your balls, and it doesn't give anyone the right to shoot video or photos of private citizens and post them on the web, either.
If it doesn't explicitly stipulate the people are guaranteed to air travel, it can't be explicit (nor even specious about) personal body searches.

It's not fair nor prudent (nor Constitutionally guaranteed) that your paranoia shouldn't affect my perfectly relaxed slumber on a flight.

I don't think people that allow bodyscans are "brainwashed drones." I do feel they're lazy and don't understand exactly what they're giving up in the name of convenience.

One last thing...I just bought a plane ticket a few minutes ago. I have looked the entire document over very, very carefully. I cannot find language anywhere on there that says I'm agreeing to undergo anything, specifically searches and ball-groping.

We want to fly, and we want to fly safely. Only a moron would think for one second that the TSA has any ability to further that goal.

Was it Homeland Security that discovered the largest stash of PETN last week? Or were they the ones that investigated and signed off on the naturalization papers of the guy that mixed it?

[rhaig 0]

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This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

When you buy a plane ticket you are agreeing to undergo whatever searches are imposed upon travelers so why are people complaining about these things? They are not guaranteed the privilege to be able to fly by any law. People EXPECT things because air travel has become the norm because everyone wants to be somewhere RIGHT NOW and refuse to take slower forms of transportation. No rights are being violated, you said you were OK with the TSA searches when you bought the ticket and your consent was implied by the purchase. Yes I understand the TSA is populated by social rejects who lack a basic education and common decency, but if you don't want to deal with them you don't have to fly.

And all the self-righteous around here accusing those who understand and agree with the searches of being brainwashed drones who give up their liberties are full of shit. We want to fly, and we want to fly safely, and I don't mind having someone grope my balls or look under my clothes with a scanner if it means I can sleep soundly on my flight.

Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

and if we roll over and accept it, the government agency who is behind it will become more powerful. If we make a fuss, the situation might change.

To use your words, you should get over yourself thinking that you're more correct than anyone who is complaining.

Yes, security screening is a condition of commercial travel. Yes, buying the ticket is acceptance of certain conditions. You're sick of the whining over a little groping. We get that.

The TSA is the perfect illustration of slippery slope. It seems far fetched to think that in a few years, you might have to have your car searched to pick up someone from the airport, or go through metal detectors and a body pat down to get on a commuter train to go to work. But just a few years ago, it seemed far fetched that a box cutter would be used as a weapon. Just a few years ago it seemed far fetched that you would have to go through an electronic strip search and full body pat down to fly commercial airlines. But look where we are now.

I'm currently working through paperwork with some friends to partner on a small aircraft so we don't ever have to worry about the TSA again. That is, until they invade the GA world. Then all of us here at dz.com should be concerned because hey, a TwOtter load could be a weapon. Got to make sure a jumper isn't going to hijack it.

edit to add: oh yeah, they already did vehicle searches to pick someone up at the airport. that was a few years ago.

--
Rob

[skyrider 0]

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This isn't directed at Bill, I just wanted to ask the general populace on here a quick question. How is anything the TSA is doing a violation of your rights, liberties, freedoms, etc.? Where in the constitution are we guaranteed the right to commercial air travel?

When you buy a plane ticket you are agreeing to undergo whatever searches are imposed upon travelers so why are people complaining about these things? They are not guaranteed the privilege to be able to fly by any law. People EXPECT things because air travel has become the norm because everyone wants to be somewhere RIGHT NOW and refuse to take slower forms of transportation. No rights are being violated, you said you were OK with the TSA searches when you bought the ticket and your consent was implied by the purchase. Yes I understand the TSA is populated by social rejects who lack a basic education and common decency, but if you don't want to deal with them you don't have to fly.

And all the self-righteous around here accusing those who understand and agree with the searches of being brainwashed drones who give up their liberties are full of shit. We want to fly, and we want to fly safely, and I don't mind having someone grope my balls or look under my clothes with a scanner if it means I can sleep soundly on my flight.

Just because you're an American doesn't mean you get whatever you want, get over yourselves.

Yep, just because we want to travel fast, we should roll over and play dead. and agree to anything they deside to throw at us...after all we bought the ticket...

[/sarcasim]

Are you fuckin NUTS? (Collective You)