Campus Concealed Carry likely to make a showing in TX this session

[rhaig 0]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102610dntexcampuscarry.2ad0e83.html

Looks like the TX concealed carry on campus bill might make it to the floor this session.

Let's eliminate a bunch of unarmed victim zones.

--
Rob

[kelpdiver 2]

how has the campus ban persisted in a place like Texas? We need someone to reset the standards and generate the history to shut down the wild west claims.

[scruffy 0]

It's hardcore in Georgia too, and trying to have a rational conversation with professors about it is about as pleasant as a root canal. You would think people committed to academia and research would avoid the whole emotional response...My abnormal psychology professor started crying when she started talking about them taking away gun free zones and allowing us to have guns in our cars.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102610dntexcampuscarry.2ad0e83.html

Looks like the TX concealed carry on campus bill might make it to the floor this session.

Let's eliminate a bunch of unarmed victim zones.

Take a campus like TAMU, which had the fake gun scare this last week. There are approximately 65,000 people (including staff) on campus every single day. Including staff, that means that there are approximately 25,000 people over the age of 21, who may be eligible to get a CHL who are on campus daily. Lets say that 2% of them get a CHL and carry on campus.

That is still a significantly larger number (nearly 5-times larger) than the TAMU police department's entire sworn officer roster! Never mind how many actual officers are patrolling on campus during any given shift.

The point isn't to have self styled peace officers, the point is that the police response on campus will be like any major city: much slower than you need in a critical situation!

This time around I don't have a lot of faith that the bill will pass, although I firmly believe that it should. Although if the current trend is any indication, there will be cause to get it passed at the next session!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/102610dntexcampuscarry.2ad0e83.html

Looks like the TX concealed carry on campus bill might make it to the floor this session.

Let's eliminate a bunch of unarmed victim zones.

Take a campus like TAMU, which had the fake gun scare this last week. There are approximately 65,000 people (including staff) on campus every single day. Including staff, that means that there are approximately 25,000 people over the age of 21, who may be eligible to get a CHL who are on campus daily. Lets say that 2% of them get a CHL and carry on campus.

That is still a significantly larger number (nearly 5-times larger) than the TAMU police department's entire sworn officer roster! Never mind how many actual officers are patrolling on campus during any given shift.

The point isn't to have self styled peace officers, the point is that the police response on campus will be like any major city: much slower than you need in a critical situation!

This time around I don't have a lot of faith that the bill will pass, although I firmly believe that it should. Although if the current trend is any indication, there will be cause to get it passed at the next session!

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

There are already a high number of CHL holders who go to college. There is a college in the town I work in (not TAMU and not nearly that size) and I have to tell you that by and large the CHL holders are not a problem.

There are thousands of CHL holders across Texas who are in college and have been since the inception of the program. There hasn't been a documented "drunk college kid CHL holder" problem at all. More of a problem are kids with shotguns. You can buy one at 18 and can keep it in your truck with no license at all. Even those situations have been very few and very far between.

Basically I know what your argument is and I can tell you from my personal (having had a CHL while in college) and professional experience that it has basically been a non-issue. It would continue to be a non-issue (never mind that at TAMU for example, over half the dorms are "dry").

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

I have a real hard time with this argument.

There's a whole lot of drinking and partying among a lot of the population.

'Specially down in "Redneckland"

There's a lot of carry permits out there, and this is one of the "Boogeyman" problems that the antis keep bringing up. Domestics, car accidents, neighbor disputes and a wide variety of simple confrontations that the antis claim will cause "Blood running in the streets" when a carry permit law passes anywhere.

None of which are occurring.

When responsible individuals are armed, few problems occur. If they are armed they usually don't drink and if they drink, they leave the gun behind (don't forget that being drunk and in possession of a gun is a crime most places).

Tack academic penalties (suspension or expulsion) onto the criminal penalties for being stupid with a gun and I think it would be similar to any area that enacts carry rights.

A lot of hoopla to begin with, and after that dies down, a relatively few individuals who are willing and capable of defending themselves or others if need be.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

I have a real hard time with this argument.

There's a whole lot of drinking and partying among a lot of the population.

'Specially down in "Redneckland"

There's a lot of carry permits out there, and this is one of the "Boogeyman" problems that the antis keep bringing up. Domestics, car accidents, neighbor disputes and a wide variety of simple confrontations that the antis claim will cause "Blood running in the streets" when a carry permit law passes anywhere.

None of which are occurring.

When responsible individuals are armed, few problems occur. If they are armed they usually don't drink and if they drink, they leave the gun behind (don't forget that being drunk and in possession of a gun is a crime most places).

Tack academic penalties (suspension or expulsion) onto the criminal penalties for being stupid with a gun and I think it would be similar to any area that enacts carry rights.

A lot of hoopla to begin with, and after that dies down, a relatively few individuals who are willing and capable of defending themselves or others if need be.

I think you will find a hell of a lot more partyin on a lot of campus than you find among people who have to get up and work and pay those bills

I have a carry permit and I do so daily. IF I am going to do any partying... the guns are ALL in the safe. Responsibility... some have it.. some do not.

[rhaig 0]

Quote

how has the campus ban persisted in a place like Texas? We need someone to reset the standards and generate the history to shut down the wild west claims.

some place like Utah? Where campus concealed carry is legal?

--
Rob

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

I love that argument... It's so knee-jerk and not thought out.

so how is this different from right now? The majority of partying doesn't happen ON campus. (which is all we're talking about changing here)

So anyone in TX who can legally own a handgun could be your drunk partier. When was the last time you heard news about a drunk off-campus partier getting shot or shooting someone?

--
Rob

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Quote

I think you will find a hell of a lot more partyin on a lot of campus than you find among people who have to get up and work and pay those bills

I have a carry permit and I do so daily. IF I am going to do any partying... the guns are ALL in the safe. Responsibility... some have it.. some do not.

Agreed. Some are responsible and some aren't. And There is a higher percentage of the "aren'ts" in the college population.

The irresponsible ones rarely follow through the entire procedure and training necessary to get the permit in the first place. The few that do soon realize that carrying on a regular basis is a pain in the ass, a lot of work, and the weapon is (almost) never needed. So after the novelty wears off, the weapon gets left behind.

But there are still responsible ones there. Some are the younger students, some are older students, some are staff.

Allowing carry on school campuses would allow a lot more than just the students to be armed.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Dave ... you know I am far from being anti gun but I am thinking there needs to be some serrious thought put into who is allowed to carry considering the amount of alcohol consumption there is on a college campus. Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea.

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

I love that argument... It's so knee-jerk and not thought out.

so how is this different from right now? The majority of partying doesn't happen ON campus. (which is all we're talking about changing here)

So anyone in TX who can legally own a handgun could be your drunk partier. When was the last time you heard news about a drunk off-campus partier getting shot or shooting someone?

Not knee jerk at all... I think concealed carrying should be allowed... BUT.. if you abuse that responsibility you need to be held accountable. There are consequences to abusing ones responsibilities.

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Not knee jerk at all... I think concealed carrying should be allowed... BUT.. if you abuse that responsibility you need to be held accountable. There are consequences to abusing ones responsibilities.

my point was that the mixing of alcohol and college students happens almost entirely off campus where there are already guns. That that fact is lost on most of those that pull out that argument (mixing guns and drunk partying college kids) is where it becomes knee-jerk.

you and I are on the same page with personal accountability. You should know that by now. A CHL holder being intoxicated while carrying a gun in TX is (correct me if I'm wrong someone) a class A misdemeanor. (and I can't remember the typical punishment, but someone will post that. dave probably knows off the top of his head) Regardless of if the gun was used at all.

It actually used to be more severe, as the statute used to read "under the influence" which was up to the interpretation of the arresting officer. That wording was recently changed to "intoxicated" with the definition referring to the intoxication and alcoholic beverages section of penal code.

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Not knee jerk at all... I think concealed carrying should be allowed... BUT.. if you abuse that responsibility you need to be held accountable. There are consequences to abusing ones responsibilities.

my point was that the mixing of alcohol and college students happens almost entirely off campus where there are already guns. That that fact is lost on most of those that pull out that argument (mixing guns and drunk partying college kids) is where it becomes knee-jerk.

you and I are on the same page with personal accountability. You should know that by now. A CHL holder being intoxicated while carrying a gun in TX is (correct me if I'm wrong someone) a class A misdemeanor. (and I can't remember the typical punishment, but someone will post that. dave probably knows off the top of his head) Regardless of if the gun was used at all.

It actually used to be more severe, as the statute used to read "under the influence" which was up to the interpretation of the arresting officer. That wording was recently changed to "intoxicated" with the definition referring to the intoxication and alcoholic beverages section of penal code.

I am good with that
I have ZERO tolerance for those that mix alcohol with gun powder.. it was nearly a lethal combination for me when I was 12

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Speaking as a college professor who most here in SC would consider to be "liberal" (meaning I don't automatically hate all muslims), I don't have any big concerns against allowing concealed carry on campus. However that's not the opinion of the higher administration, who I expect will do whatever they can to resist it here in Georgia.

Quote

Agreed. Some are responsible and some aren't. And There is a higher percentage of the "aren'ts" in the college population.

The irresponsible ones rarely follow through the entire procedure and training necessary to get the permit in the first place.

Interesting how this varies from state to state. In Georgia there is absolutely nothing required in the way of "training". Any legal resident over 21, with a clean criminal and mental history, can get a concealed carry permit. There is no requirement to show proficiency with the weapon, nor any instruction or test of knowledge of applicable laws. Still, we don't have an epidemic of crime committed by permit holders, and there's no good reason to expect that to change if those students who do have a permit could carry on campus.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

how has the campus ban persisted in a place like Texas? We need someone to reset the standards and generate the history to shut down the wild west claims.

some place like Utah? Where campus concealed carry is legal?

No one ever counts Utah - outlier in so many ways.

Texas has the population, and the population diversity, to make the argument stick.

[rhaig 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

how has the campus ban persisted in a place like Texas? We need someone to reset the standards and generate the history to shut down the wild west claims.

some place like Utah? Where campus concealed carry is legal?

No one ever counts Utah - outlier in so many ways.

Texas has the population, and the population diversity, to make the argument stick.

and Colorado doesn't count either?

--
Rob

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

and Colorado doesn't count either?

you got it!

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

That's why it is illegal.

Quote

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea

True, but just because you were unsafe does not mean others are unsafe.

Quote

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

That's bad.... Just as bad as as the police not showing up fast enough to stop a massacre.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Partying and binge drinking and guns.... BAD IDEA.

That's why it is illegal.

Quote

Sorry but drunks with loaded guns scare the shit out of me and I have the scar to prove its not a very good idea

True, but just because you were unsafe does not mean others are unsafe.

Quote

Lets also not forget that now the police response to a party to find someone impaired that is holding a gun and is not responding to the officers orders fast enough.

That's bad.... Just as bad as as the police not showing up fast enough to stop a massacre.

Off target again I see as usual .. but I was the 12 year old who was shot by a drunk while out hunting deer.. but thanks for all that conservative misunderstanding of reality

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

Off target again I see as usual .. but I was the 12 year old who was shot by a drunk while out hunting deer.. but thanks for all that conservative misunderstanding of reality

And as the typical liberal you blame everything on others and ignore the rest of the information.

You were shot out in the woods... Yet you want to prevent guns on a campus.

Logically, you should want to ban alcohol or firearms in the woods.... Yet you went a different route, not supported by any evidence.

You were shot by a drunk in the woods who thought you were a deer, yet you make the insane leap that your incident applies to a campus.

Typically, you don't have anything but emotion to support your rhetoric.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

Off target again I see as usual .. but I was the 12 year old who was shot by a drunk while out hunting deer.. but thanks for all that conservative misunderstanding of reality

And as the typical liberal you blame everything on others and ignore the rest of the information.

You were shot out in the woods... Yet you want to prevent guns on a campus.

Logically, you should want to ban alcohol or firearms in the woods.... Yet you went a different route, not supported by any evidence.

You were shot by a drunk in the woods who thought you were a deer, yet you make the insane leap that your incident applies to a campus.

Typically, you don't have anything but emotion to support your rhetoric.

No you FAIL yet again

I have a personal experience of getting shot by a drunk... who thought a 12 year old girl dressed in orange in a mixed conifer deciduous forest was a target. It is the fact that people who are impaired by drugs and alcohol have no business picking up a loaded weapon but that is just me.. I do not do it.. but I guess YOUR milage on that does vary. Are you a member of the Dick Cheney school of hunting

[kelpdiver 2]

Your argument makes as much sense as banning cars because you were once hit by a drunk driver.

I know you support gun ownership, but your logic here defies that.

[billvon 2,400]

>Your argument makes as much sense as banning cars because you
>were once hit by a drunk driver.

I think it's more akin to wanting to ban drunk driving because you were once hit by a drunk driver. (Which would seem like a sensible thing to advocate.)

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Your argument makes as much sense as banning cars because you were once hit by a drunk driver.

I know you support gun ownership, but your logic here defies that.

I support responsible gun ownership.

As long as all the kiddies play by all the rules concerning concealed carry on campus... cool... go for it... BUT they damn well better be responsible. I dont know about the campus where you went to school.. but the one I went to seemed to have a propensity for a hell of a lot of over the top drunken parties. That whole "here hold my beer, watch this" gets way too interesting for my taste when you add alcohol to the mix.