lawrocket 3 #1 October 19, 2010 Last week, a federal court struck down the 1993 law that reiterated the banning gays in the military, but just made closeting of gays and lesbians the policy. In a strange bedfellows matter, the suit was brought by the Log Cabin Republicans to strike down a law passed by a Democratic Congress and signed by a Democratic President. The court found that it not only violates due process, but that the "DOn't tell" part violates the First Amendment. Now the Secretary of Defense has issued guidance that recruits are not to be ruled out on the basis of stated sexual orientation. (This is nice for the President, who has delayed and fudged with his promise to do something about DADT). The problem is that the Executive Branch is still fighting it (which is, of course, what it is SUPPOSED to to). This means that there may be some gay recruits who join up and maybe, in a year, get separated if the policy somehow remains. My personal opinion is that Don't Ask Don't Tell is a nightmare for operational security. I'd have a hard time thinking of a policy that was more conducive to blackmail than DADT. Frankly, this most accomplished Congress with all the power could do something pretty simple like repeal 10 USC section 654 and stop this thing now. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #2 October 19, 2010 We'll see the end of Western Civilization soon enough - this only greases the skids. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 October 19, 2010 I am curious about the opinions of the military folks here. I was talking with a friend in the army who told me about a buddy of his from boot camp. Apparently someone important to that unit got booted for DADT, and it had a very negative effect on morale, because this was a person who had a high level of training and helped keep the unit safe (I have no idea what it was that they did. I was told but don't remember.), and they felt they were at a disadvantage with that person gone. When I hear things like this, it sounds like the military may be weaker for the enforcement of such a policy. It seems silly to spend all that time training someone who can be dismissed with the words "I'm gay." It also seems that our military can't afford to turn down those able to do the job. My friend in the above conversation agreed, but I'm curious what the rest here who serve think, and why. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #4 October 19, 2010 When I was in (a LONG time ago), they were there, just like in civilian life. No big deal really. Some were flamboyant, some kept it quiet...again, just like in civilian life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #5 October 19, 2010 QuoteWhen I was in (a LONG time ago), they were there, just like in civilian life. No big deal really. Some were flamboyant, some kept it quiet...again, just like in civilian life. +1Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #6 October 19, 2010 QuoteWhen I was in (a LONG time ago), they were there, just like in civilian life. No big deal really. Some were flamboyant, some kept it quiet...again, just like in civilian life. A marine I dated in college, when DADT was pretty new and we were discussing it over beer with my friends, had this to say about gays in the military: "I don't care if he's gay as long as he shoots straight." Everyone in the military I've personally talked to has expressed similar views, but the news seems to say otherwise, so I am curious to hear from the other side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #7 October 19, 2010 QuoteWhen I was in (a LONG time ago), they were there, just like in civilian life. No big deal really. Some were flamboyant, some kept it quiet...again, just like in civilian life. Yes, but now, you can expect to see them really flout it, and when they do, it'll be conveniently overlooked. Naturally, the military will go overboard with protections and affirmative action, just like they have with all the other minorities. There are some of the homosexual crowd who've said that as soon as DADT is rescinded, they will immediately demand a 10% "queer-quota" at the military academies. Don't think for a minute that all the ridiculous demands are now over - they've only just begun. Like I said, Western Civilization will fall, and when it does, people will look to stupidity like this as the root cause, among many other things (Political Correctness at all costs, including the security of the Republic). Don't say no one told you so. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #8 October 20, 2010 Why is it stupid to accept people for who they are? Why do some have to conform to what others think is "right"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #9 October 20, 2010 >My personal opinion is that Don't Ask Don't Tell is a nightmare for >operational security. . . . repeal 10 USC section 654 and stop this thing now. Agreed. It's nuts to make honesty a punishable offense in an organization that prides itself on honor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #10 October 20, 2010 >Naturally, the military will go overboard with protections and >affirmative action, just like they have with all the other minorities. Good point. Ever since they've allowed women, minorities, muslims and atheists to serve, the entire US military has collapsed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #11 October 20, 2010 Quote >Naturally, the military will go overboard with protections and >affirmative action, just like they have with all the other minorities. Good point. Ever since they've allowed women, minorities, muslims and atheists to serve, the entire US military has collapsed. "Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #12 October 20, 2010 Quotethey will immediately demand a 10% "queer-quota" at the military academies. You know what? That might actually be a good idea. Gay leadership will help to prevent discrimination against junior homosexual servicemenbers and give them a group to look up to._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 October 20, 2010 QuoteWhen I hear things like this, it sounds like the military may be weaker for the enforcement of such a policy. It seems silly to spend all that time training someone who can be dismissed with the words "I'm gay." It also seems that our military can't afford to turn down those able to do the job. Being good at your job is not always enough. Back when I was in the Marines, if you got fat, and wouldn't get back into shape to pass the physical standards, then you were booted out. It didn't matter how darned good you were at fixing a fighter jet or shooting a rifle. You also had to be able to run and fight, or you could hold the unit back. Draw whatever parallels you want, or not, between this physical fitness example and homosexuality. I'm not going there. My only point is that being good at your job is not a trump card that forgives all else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 October 20, 2010 QuoteWhy is it stupid to accept people for who they are? Why do some have to conform to what others think is "right"? Because they have to share an intimate barracks and showers with 80 other guys? Would you be comfortable showering in the presence of self-announced homosexuals? Give 'em separate living quarters, and I'll bet the hetero's then wouldn't care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #15 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhen I hear things like this, it sounds like the military may be weaker for the enforcement of such a policy. It seems silly to spend all that time training someone who can be dismissed with the words "I'm gay." It also seems that our military can't afford to turn down those able to do the job. Being good at your job is not always enough. Back when I was in the Marines, if you got fat, and wouldn't get back into shape to pass the physical standards, then you were booted out. It didn't matter how darned good you were at fixing a fighter jet or shooting a rifle. You also had to be able to run and fight, or you could hold the unit back. Draw whatever parallels you want, or not, between this physical fitness example and homosexuality. I'm not going there. My only point is that being good at your job is not a trump card that forgives all else. uh, you certainly seem to be implying something about gays and fitness. Running and being able to support the mission is part of the job description, so it still seems like being good at your job trumps most other concerns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #16 October 20, 2010 Umm....I have shared those quarters with them. they aren't typically attracted to straight guys that don't want them. They won't really gang rape you in the shower. Even when you drop the soap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #17 October 20, 2010 QuoteRunning and being able to support the mission is part of the job description, Actually, it's not. The fitness requirement is a general one, not job-specific. Quoteso it still seems like being good at your job trumps most other concerns. Nope, sorry. Doesn't matter if you're the best thing since sliced bread - get popped on a drug screen or consistently fail PT/weight standards and you're gone.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #18 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuotethey will immediately demand a 10% "queer-quota" at the military academies. You know what? That might actually be a good idea. Gay leadership will help to prevent discrimination against junior homosexual servicemenbers and give them a group to look up to. It'll throw a whole new way for sexual harrassment to be utilized as well.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #19 October 20, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuotethey will immediately demand a 10% "queer-quota" at the military academies. You know what? That might actually be a good idea. Gay leadership will help to prevent discrimination against junior homosexual servicemenbers and give them a group to look up to. It'll throw a whole new way for sexual harrassment to be utilized as well. It'll allow for them to actually report it without being kicked out for being gay._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doughboyshred 0 #20 October 20, 2010 I was in the military, and I couldn't care less if someone was gay. I am secure with my sexuality, and I'm not worried about somebody looking at my dick in the shower. Co-ed showers will become the norm, anyway. http://rokdrop.com/2010/08/24/who-wouldnt-want-co-ed-showers-with-dutch-soldiers/ dadt is a ridiculous policy. Banning gays in the military is even more ridiculous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #21 October 20, 2010 QuoteWe'll see the end of Western Civilization soon enough - this only greases the skids. "Western Civilization" and democracy have their roots in a culture that accepted homosexuality. Things started to go south when vocal Christian minority groups conned enough money out of gullible, mostly ignorant (as in uneducated, not dumb) people to start having enough capital to become influential political lobbyists. Take a look at world history.... Alexander the Great Fag wouldn't pass muster under DADT.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #22 October 20, 2010 disclosure and honesty are not synonamous , i see no reason to publicise sexuality . i served for 17 years without any fellow servicemember advertising their sexuality . i had some suspicions , but some things are best left to mysteries . until someone can show me the advantages of advertising their sexuality , just keep it to yourself . otherwise i suspect another agenda ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #23 October 20, 2010 Quoteuntil someone can show me the advantages of advertising their sexuality , just keep it to yourself Right on. I agree. I spent 13 years in the military and it just gassed my ass to hear about some men's wives and girlfriends and gratuitous encounters with female strippers and prostitutes. The military really, really needs to get rid of anyone who discloses their sexuality. Everyone should just shut the fuck up about it... and if some guy slips up and admits that he had sex with a woman, it's more than reasonable to deprive him of a planned career and write off the cost of his training.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #24 October 20, 2010 DADT for Christians now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #25 October 20, 2010 Quote DADT for Christians now! gawd-dammed right! Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
