Tea Party Characteristics

[rhaig 0]

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>Stuff already existing . . .

Yep. Like the Obama health care legislation.

Let's take a look at the positions you list:

>A constitutionally limited government, designed to protect the blessings of
>liberty, must be fiscally responsible or it must subject its citizenry to high
>levels of taxation that unjustly restrict the liberty our Constitution was
>designed to protect.

Cool idea! Let's see how tea partyers embody that:

so after it's been demonstrated the divergant views of different tea partiers, you disregard that and paint him with a broad brush... how typical. (yes, that's another broad brush I just painted you with... how you like it?)

--
Rob

[billvon 2,426]

>so after it's been demonstrated the divergant views of different tea partiers . . .

Did you read Mike's post? He said that being against Medicare was NOT part of the Tea Party platform, and then proceeded to list all their 'official' positions. Apparently opposition to Medicare is not an approved position for Tea Partyers, at least per Mike.

Which is fine, but you can't have it both ways.

[skipbelt 0]

i'd be interested to know your train of thought on your st. thomas of aquinas mention. he is one of my favorites!

i write this post while listening to
axel f -harold faltermeyer-

[skipbelt 0]

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>so after it's been demonstrated the divergant views of different tea partiers . . .

Did you read Mike's post? He said that being against Medicare was NOT part of the Tea Party platform, and then proceeded to list all their 'official' positions. Apparently opposition to Medicare is not an approved position for Tea Partyers, at least per Mike.

Which is fine, but you can't have it both ways.

your attempt to pigeonhole like OP is futille !.

i post this while listening to
under the boardwalk -the drifters-

[rushmc 18]

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Opps
The story is true
Another lib killing free speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9B8Yc6EZR0&feature=related

I never said it wasn't, that was Wendy, but I think she meant the story in the song, not the story about the writer.

But the thing is I don't think anyone stifled free speech. The guy said what he had to say. Some
folks didn't like it. The cold hard truth is tht actions have consequences. Do you want a teacher in schools that has starred in pornos? Been part of hard lining Wahabi madrasa? Which actions push your buttons is dependant on the audience. Of course I didnt see or hear any racism. I don't see the big problem. But he said what he wanted to say. No one silenced him. He has a right to free speech. He doesn't have a right to keep his job of he breaks a rule or posses off the school board. Same as CNN firing dirty Ricky Sanchez. No one stopped him from saying his piece, but he has to deal with the fallout.

SO, the fall out, getting fired, is ok with you because some body did not agree with his political opinion? And opinion he gave using personal email on his own time?

Really (I am talking about the song writer here)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 58]

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There was an interesting interview on NPR a couple weeks ago. (I couldn't find it with a quick search)

Leaders from 2 different Tea Party groups were interviewed on their vastly different views of how far the group should intrude into people's private lives. One (from El Paso IIRC) was only interested in fiscal policy, while the other (somewhere in Montana IIRC) insisted on imposing his "moral values", including anti-abortion and anti-gay stances.

That's what I was talking about. It seems like the only consistent thing across the Tea Party is the anti-incumbent sentiment. The really is no message across the movement. Then again, maybe they took a play out of Obama's playbook: promise what sounds good in the most vague terms and let folks use their own desires to fill in the blanks. It worked for him, it looks like it'll work for them (except where they picked damaged goods as the candidate). Too bad "Hope" "Change you can believe in" and "Yes we can!" were already taken. Otherwise the Tea Party could use them.

Everywhere I go I test the political waters with the folks I am with. The Tea Party is usually not mentioned by name.

A couple of my in-laws are staunch liberals and they are worried about their late life healthcare. One is going to vote for Charlie Crist because her daughter and son-in-law hosted a fund raiser for him. She has no clue. However, none express confidence in the healthcare bill.

Vietnam Veterans seem evenly split but they fear the VA medical system and hint less confidence government healthcare for everyone.

My neighbor is a sole proprietor and he fears further economic loss due to government takeovers. His wife recently had to get an entry level job. They are in their mid-40's.

Patriot Guard Riders that I see plan to clean out all the incumbents to save the country. Libertarian seems to be the most common political term.

Emails that I receive indicate devastating aspects of BHO's healthcare. It has such far reaching tentacles into areas beyond medicine that folks are scared.

Bottom line, this President promised to unify the country and he has managed to scare the s*** out of everyone except the Afro-Americans, 91% approval rating. The Tea Party is just an excuse and forum for the frightened, patriotic Americans to assemble. The bottom line is fear not anger.

We want our country back.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Kennedy 0]

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SO, the fall out, getting fired, is ok with you because some body did not agree with his political opinion? And opinion he gave using personal email on his own time?

Really (I am talking about the song writer here)

I disagree with it. That doesn't mean anyone denied free speech. It means he exercised free speech. I do wonder why exactly they fired him. Generally, even in education, "I don't like your views" is not a reason to fire someone.

Are some of the whiny parents overreacting? Sure. Is this possibly yet another example of some overly PC schmuck pissing his pants over offending professional whiners? Sure. Was someone's free speech limited or violated? Nope. Does that make all this right? Nope. Just don't put a pig in a pageant dress and expect the crown.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andy9o8 0]

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We want our country back.

Think about it: that's been the motivation of about 50% of the voters almost every presidential election since 1960. (Maybe 1948)

[RonD1120 58]

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We want our country back.

Think about it: that's been the motivation of about 50% of the voters almost every presidential election since 1960. (Maybe 1948)

No argument there. The pendulum never stops swinging. These next two general elections will not be an end all solution. We just next to clean house now and reverse the bulls*** legislation.

Can we do it? I think we can. If not, well, by that time I will be in BHO's death camp and out of the picture.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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Yeah, it seemed to have sailed right over your head given your response.

By all means, enlighten me - show me how a position against a trillion dollar boondoggle is somehow 'big government'.

A position against a "trillion dollar boondoggle" is against big government.

A position against one particular "trillion dollar boondoggle" while refusing to consider addressing an almost identical huge government program is hypocrisy.

Kinda like a farmer saying "I don't want the government telling me what I can plant and what fertilizers I can use and what I have to do with my wetlands...

But don't cut my corn subsidies."

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Tokter 0]

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And opinion he gave using personal email on his own time?

And email addresses he got from the school email system. Watch the video you linked @2:20

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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From Tea Party:

"Illegal Aliens Are Here illegally.
Pro-Domestic Employment Is Indispensable.
Stronger Military Is Essential.
Special Interests Eliminated.
Gun Ownership Is Sacred.
Government Must Be Downsized.
National Budget Must Be Balanced.
Deficit Spending Will End.
Bail-out And Stimulus Plans Are Illegal.
Reduce Personal Income Taxes A Must.
Reduce Business Income Taxes Is Mandatory.
Political Offices Available To Average Citizens.
Intrusive Government Stopped.
English As Core Language Is Required.
Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged.

Interesting built-in contradictions in there:

"Intrusive Government Stopped.
English As Core Language Is Required.
Traditional Family Values Are Encouraged."
So the gov't will stop being intrusive, except that they'll tell you what language to speak and what your values should be. How much more intrusive can you get?

"Government Must Be Downsized.
National Budget Must Be Balanced.
Deficit Spending Will End.
Stronger Military Is Essential."
Do they mean a stronger military, but also smaller and with less funding? I'm curious how, exactly, they aim to achieve that. Or do they mean an even larger military (and presumably military budget)? If so, I really wonder exactly what they plan to cut to balance the budget and yet spend still more on the military. Especially while leaving medicare and social security in place. As Kallend has said, the entire remaining balance of the budget isn't enough to close that gap.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rhaig 0]

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>so after it's been demonstrated the divergant views of different tea partiers . . .

Did you read Mike's post? He said that being against Medicare was NOT part of the Tea Party platform, and then proceeded to list all their 'official' positions. Apparently opposition to Medicare is not an approved position for Tea Partyers, at least per Mike.

Which is fine, but you can't have it both ways.

so you're not denying ignoring the earlier post pointing out divergent views of different tea partiers and making a broad generalization...

(at least I didn't see any such denial.)

--
Rob

[Kennedy 0]

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Do they mean a stronger military, but also smaller and with less funding? I'm curious how, exactly, they aim to achieve that. Or do they mean an even larger military (and presumably military budget)? If so, I really wonder exactly what they plan to cut to balance the budget and yet spend still more on the military. Especially while leaving medicare and social security in place. As Kallend has said, the entire remaining balance of the budget isn't enough to close that gap.

Well, while this may not be what Tea Party people, or even Republicans, are suggesting, I do have a bit of an answer there. The first thing to do would be to adopt cuts suggested by the Joint Cheifs of Staff. That would hurt ceratin corporations in the form of contracts, and it would hurt a number of communities in the form of base closures, but it's a good way to cut miltary spending without weakening the overall military.

Does it stengthen or weaken our military power to be committed to countless struggles around the world? Why are we committed to so many one sided treaties. Why should the US promise to defend other countries when they won't vow to defend the US if it's attacked. Also, if we stopped intervening across the globe, or at least slowed, our military would be "stronger" without growing in size because it wouldn't be stretched to the limit.
disclaimer: Don't get me wrong, I'm no isolationist, but I don't see the value in having so much of our military overseas (bases or permanent stations in what, thirty countries and 2.5 million personnel overseas)

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[wmw999 2,145]

I would love us to make the vast majority of that kind of cut (i.e. where even the people who use something say it's not needed). Paul Burka wrote an article in the most recent Texas Monthly about ways to meet the $18 billion shortfall in the Texas budget without new taxes, and it's painful.

It will be more painful to address the issues in the national budget. Every single one of us should feel it to some degree, because it's our debt. It's our country.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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The first thing to do would be to adopt cuts suggested by the Joint Cheifs of Staff. That would hurt ceratin corporations in the form of contracts, and it would hurt a number of communities in the form of base closures, but it's a good way to cut miltary spending without weakening the overall military.

Does it stengthen or weaken our military power to be committed to countless struggles around the world? ...

FWIW, I agree with you on pretty much all of this.

I do think the situation with the military does illustrate some of the likely complications of reducing the budget, which I suspect are the actual reason why it is so hard to actually accomplish. How much of our aerospace industry, for example, is dependent on military spending? How could we cut spending in that area by, say, 25% without having a massive short-term impact on the industry, resulting in down-sizing and layoffs, and subsequently a long-term impact due to closing of manufacturing facilities and loss of trained personnel? Will the private sector really pony up the contracts to keep the industry viable? Can our military really be considered to be "strong" without the manufacturing and R&D capacity to back it up? The same questions can be raised about many other areas where government spending maintains important infrastructure capacity (biomedical research is another example).

I think questions like this are one significant reason why it's easy to campaign on a slash-and-burn platform, but it never seems to happen once people are in office.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[diverborg 0]

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Compared with medicare, social security and defense, the rest is peanuts. They simply CAN'T cut the size of govt significantly unless they go after those. That's why they are so vague on the details. ST. Thomas Aquinas must be spinning.

I probably don't agree with you very often, but you hit the nail on the head here. I once thought the tea party was a good thing and I even attended a few rallies, but quickly learned there was no common belief system, and they soon started endorsing candidates that I was 180 off from. I pretty much distanced myself and realized it was mostly a useless organization outside of sending the "we're pissed off" message.

I would like to see defense cut, but it seems 3/4 of the crowd wants it to remain the same. I don't necessarily have a problem with the ideas of medicare or social security, except that I have big problems when they bankrupt social security from paying out either too much, to people that don't need it, or tapping into the funds for other needs. Everything has been mismanaged, and half the crowd wants to do away with it altogether (which would cause a civil war), and the other half only wants to keep what benefits them.

Medicare costs are what really need to be controlled rather than cutting the program altogether, and I don't think adding another trillion dollar healthcare bill while ignoring a few of the fundamental problems with healthcare costs was the solution either. In all fairness I think many of the teapartiers that are getting slammed for their inconsistent beliefs probably fall into that same category. It doesn't help eithe when private business advertises for medicare services. "Call the scooter store now, and we'll bill medicare to get you your powerchair for free!!!"

My views are constantly evolving as I age, and I've found that I'm lightyears away from falling inline with either political party, and when I see these so called tea-party favorites getting the party nominations, I just have to run home, lock myself in the bedroom, beat up my pillow, and cry like a teenage girl whose best friend just bought the same prom dress as me.

Call me a pessimist, but the general population on both sides of the fence just seem to be growing in ignorance and as a result, I don't see much of anything improving next election. So what if we "vote the bums out", when we've selected a whole new list of bums to replace them.

[kallend 1,643]

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i'd be interested to know your train of thought on your st. thomas of aquinas mention. he is one of my favorites!

i write this post while listening to
axel f -harold faltermeyer-

He's one of many to whom the expression "The Devil is in the details" is attributed.

The TP is all well and good until you try to pin them down on the details. Then they go all wobbly on you**.


** expression due to Margaret Thatcher talking to GHW Bush: ""Now, George, don't go wobbly on us."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

I agree with virtually everything you said.

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It doesn't help eithe when private business advertises for medicare services. "Call the scooter store now, and we'll bill medicare to get you your powerchair for free!!!"

This has to be one of the most infuriating commercials on TV, on many levels. None of these services should be totally free to the consumer. Many studies have demonstrated that when things are given for free people don't respect or value them, so the services are often wasted. Even for the very poor, a nominal charge (so they have to give up something else, such as smoking for a week) will do a lot to ensure people only take the service if they need it. An out-of-pocket expense on the part of a real consumer will also do a lot to discourage fraud on the part of the medical service/device industry. Probably the real savings to the taxpayer would come from the reduction of fraud and waste, rather than from the revenue generated from the service fees.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 18]

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And opinion he gave using personal email on his own time?

And email addresses he got from the school email system. Watch the video you linked @2:20

No
He had a few emails of student parents
Nothing was stated about getting them from the schools email system

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,426]

>Everywhere I go I test the political waters with the folks I am with.

Your descriptions of how people "see the waters" are interesting:

>Vietnam Veterans seem evenly split but they fear . . .
>My neighbor is a sole proprietor and he fears . . .
> . . . folks are scared.
> . . .The bottom line is fear

The right wing has long used fear as a potent political weapon. We even see it here on SC: "Mexican gangs will kill you!" "Americans shot by Mexicans in Texas lake." "Death boards will kill your grandma!" "Obama is an evil Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya!"

The problem with fear is that after you keep people scared for years, eventually they start to take it for granted - so you have to keep "upping the ante" so to speak. Thus we have the ever-more absurd claims, the over-the-top vitriol, the Obama-as-Hitler posters. It takes a lot to keep people fearful.

[mnealtx 0]

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The right wing has long used fear as a potent political weapon. We even see it here on SC: "Mexican gangs will kill you!" "Americans shot by Mexicans in Texas lake." "Death boards will kill your grandma!" "Obama is an evil Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya!"

The problem with fear is that after you keep people scared for years, eventually they start to take it for granted - so you have to keep "upping the ante" so to speak. Thus we have the ever-more absurd claims, the over-the-top vitriol, the Obama-as-Hitler posters. It takes a lot to keep people fearful.

Odd how you don't mention little tidbits like these, Bill...

"For the CHILDREN!!!"
"Blood in the streets!"
"People will die without Obamacare"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 18]

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The right wing has long used fear as a potent political weapon. We even see it here on SC: "Mexican gangs will kill you!" "Americans shot by Mexicans in Texas lake." "Death boards will kill your grandma!" "Obama is an evil Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya!"

The problem with fear is that after you keep people scared for years, eventually they start to take it for granted - so you have to keep "upping the ante" so to speak. Thus we have the ever-more absurd claims, the over-the-top vitriol, the Obama-as-Hitler posters. It takes a lot to keep people fearful.

Odd how you don't mention little tidbits like these, Bill...

"For the CHILDREN!!!"
"Blood in the streets!"
"People will die without Obamacare"

Going to take away your SS
Old ladies will be kicked out on to the streets


These were all repbulican fear statements





Right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

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The right wing has long used fear as a potent political weapon. We even see it here on SC: "Mexican gangs will kill you!" "Americans shot by Mexicans in Texas lake." "Death boards will kill your grandma!" "Obama is an evil Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya!"

The problem with fear is that after you keep people scared for years, eventually they start to take it for granted - so you have to keep "upping the ante" so to speak. Thus we have the ever-more absurd claims, the over-the-top vitriol, the Obama-as-Hitler posters. It takes a lot to keep people fearful.

Odd how you don't mention little tidbits like these, Bill...

"For the CHILDREN!!!"
"Blood in the streets!"
"People will die without Obamacare"

Going to take away your SS
Old ladies will be kicked out on to the streets


These were all repbulican fear statements





Right?

You have not been following the news have you. It seems many of the Tea Bagger candidates like Angle and O'Donnel and the nutjobs from AK.. all have those talking points . Let not forget my favorite one they all support.... forcing women who are raped by a stranger or their oh so loving fathers or uncles.. to have those children. Sorry but Only a Caveman should be able to love a position like that.

[rushmc 18]

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The right wing has long used fear as a potent political weapon. We even see it here on SC: "Mexican gangs will kill you!" "Americans shot by Mexicans in Texas lake." "Death boards will kill your grandma!" "Obama is an evil Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya!"

The problem with fear is that after you keep people scared for years, eventually they start to take it for granted - so you have to keep "upping the ante" so to speak. Thus we have the ever-more absurd claims, the over-the-top vitriol, the Obama-as-Hitler posters. It takes a lot to keep people fearful.

Odd how you don't mention little tidbits like these, Bill...

"For the CHILDREN!!!"
"Blood in the streets!"
"People will die without Obamacare"

Going to take away your SS
Old ladies will be kicked out on to the streets


These were all repbulican fear statements





Right?

You have not been following the news have you. It seems many of the Tea Bagger candidates like Angle and O'Donnel and the nutjobs from AK.. all have those talking points . Let not forget my favorite one they all support.... forcing women who are raped by a stranger or their oh so loving fathers or uncles.. to have those children. Sorry but Only a Caveman should be able to love a position like that.

Oh

So you are saying they were not

Ok

Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln