GeorgiaDon 340
Recognizing that these are Mexican laws (I'll assume that, since I haven't verified that they aren't the usual right-wing exaggerated BS), and assuming you're actually interested in whether or not they should be applied in the US (an unlikely proposition), I'll bite.
Also, if you expect the rest of the world to subject themselves to English only if they want to do business with Americans, you have an exaggerated notion of America's importance in the world. It really does seem you conservatives want America to become an isolated little backwater, cut off from the rest of the world as much as possible.
9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation. Fine, as long as you are willing to accept the loss of competitiveness in international business. Believe it or not, English (or American for you conservatives) is not the only language in the world, and if you want to trade with other countries you just might need people able to speak their language. Also America has a long tradition of attracting the best and brightest people from around the world to legally immigrate, but I guess in Conservativeland you can tell them to leave their damn funny-talking kids behind and they will still be happy to come here. Anyway we don't need no foreign help, everybody knows that Americans are just naturally better than everybody else at everything.Quote1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
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What is "this nation's language", officially? You seem to have skipped a step here, i.e. enacting a constitutional amendment to establish an official language. Interesting that the Founding Fathers didn't seem to think that was important, and they were in hindsight remarkably prescient in crafting a constitution that can cope with all kinds of circumstances they could never have anticipated.Quote2. All ballots will be in this nation's language..
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3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
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Also, if you expect the rest of the world to subject themselves to English only if they want to do business with Americans, you have an exaggerated notion of America's importance in the world. It really does seem you conservatives want America to become an isolated little backwater, cut off from the rest of the world as much as possible.
Non-residents (and even legal residents) have neither the right to vote or the right to hold political office. That's pretty much what citizenship is all about.Quote4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
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5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
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When I was a legal permanent resident (green card holder), it was my understanding that I was not eligible for any government assistance programs. Which was never an issue for me, but it did piss me off that I had to pay taxes to support all those programs but was ineligible for coverage, even though I was a legal immigrant who came in through the front door. Also, why should a legal immigrant not be able to buy health insurance, or pay out of pocket for health care? Again, if you tell people they can legally immigrate, but if they or their families get sick they can't get health care, don't expect too many takers.Quote6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
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Seriously? I guess you want the trade imbalance to get even worse? Or you're really really set on that backwater thing with the rest of the world passing us by. Maybe rules like this are part of why Mexico's economy sucks and ours doesn't. Still, no cost to too great to pay for a little perceived "security".Quote7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
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Again with the restrictions on foreign investment. You must really like the Mexican economy. Plus I'm pretty sure their would be constitutional issues. Also, there are existing restrictions on foreign ownership of certain industries deemed to be of "national security interest". Finally, when I lived in Ontario there were a lot of cottages on lakes and rivers that were owned by Americans, so you won't object when Canada goes tit-for-tat and confiscates those properties? Can't help but break a few eggs I guess, and anyway they should have bought in America not Canada. That whole friendly border thing is so overrated.Quote8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
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I believe we do deport illegals when we catch them. As far as "all assets will be taken", maybe you need to get familiar with due process. Do you think the value of the confiscated assets will pay for housing the alleged illegals in this country, feeding them, etc while the confiscation proceedings go through the courts?Quote10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
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Overall, I'd say these "laws" seriously disrespect the Constitution, and are a good roadmap to a third world economy as an insular backwater ignored and shunned by the rest of the world.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
rehmwa 2
I don't think putting a spotlight on Mexico's laws will hold much weight.
You should fine the immigration laws of a country a stereotypical liberal worships (like France) and then post them. It would be a better illumination.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
You should fine the immigration laws of a country a stereotypical liberal worships (like France) and then post them. It would be a better illumination.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
metalslug 31
Quote8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * *
While in Cancun, I noticed a string of international hotels along prime beachfront property, including the Hilton.
Who owns those "properties" ?
How is that handled relative to this law ? Anyone know ?
Quote
Quote8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * *
While in Cancun, I noticed a string of international hotels along prime beachfront property, including the Hilton.
Who owns those "properties" ?
How is that handled relative to this law ? Anyone know ?
In Mexico, the laws are merely suggestions ;) If you have enough money, the officials will treat you right. If you haven't noticed yet, things are going that way here in the U.S. too
SkyDekker 1,150
QuoteHow is that handled relative to this law ? Anyone know ?
In most cases those hotels and properties are owned through a Mexican company.
turtlespeed 212
QuoteRecognizing that these are Mexican laws (I'll assume that, since I haven't verified that they aren't the usual right-wing exaggerated BS), and assuming you're actually interested in whether or not they should be applied in the US (an unlikely proposition), I'll bite.
I'm not saying we should adopt them. I'm trying to show what would happen if the roles were reveresed and the level of hypocricy that the Mexican government shows perpetually.Fine, as long as you are willing to accept the loss of competitiveness in international business. Believe it or not, English (or American for you conservatives) is not the only language in the world, and if you want to trade with other countries you just might need people able to speak their language. Also America has a long tradition of attracting the best and brightest people from around the world to legally immigrate, but I guess in Conservativeland you can tell them to leave their damn funny-talking kids behind and they will still be happy to come here. Anyway we don't need no foreign help, everybody knows that Americans are just naturally better than everybody else at everything.Quote1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * *
So you think it is best to force children into learning a language regardless of their parents wishes. Nice. (You must not like the constitution.)
What is "this nation's language", officially? You seem to have skipped a step here, i.e. enacting a constitutional amendment to establish an official language. Interesting that the Founding Fathers didn't seem to think that was important, and they were in hindsight remarkably prescient in crafting a constitution that can cope with all kinds of circumstances they could never have anticipated.Quote2. All ballots will be in this nation's language..
* * * * * * * *
3.. All government business will be conducted in our language.
* * * * * * * *
Also, if you expect the rest of the world to subject themselves to English only if they want to do business with Americans, you have an exaggerated notion of America's importance in the world. It really does seem you conservatives want America to become an isolated little backwater, cut off from the rest of the world as much as possible.
Thats funny - I guess you don't fly in an airplane. OT that, I agree that global business requires multi lingual people. That should be their choice, though.
Non-residents (and even legal residents) have neither the right to vote or the right to hold political office. That's pretty much what citizenship is all about.Quote4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
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5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office
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Sorry - that may apply to the presidential election, but you need to study up a bit.
When I was a legal permanent resident (green card holder), it was my understanding that I was not eligible for any government assistance programs. Which was never an issue for me, but it did piss me off that I had to pay taxes to support all those programs but was ineligible for coverage, even though I was a legal immigrant who came in through the front door. Also, why should a legal immigrant not be able to buy health insurance, or pay out of pocket for health care? Again, if you tell people they can legally immigrate, but if they or their families get sick they can't get health care, don't expect too many takers.Quote6 Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs. Any burden will be deported.
* * * * * * * *
You are mistaken again . . . "Cash Assistance Program for Immigrants (CAPI)" is only one. There are many out there.Seriously? I guess you want the trade imbalance to get even worse? Or you're really really set on that backwater thing with the rest of the world passing us by. Maybe rules like this are part of why Mexico's economy sucks and ours doesn't. Still, no cost to too great to pay for a little perceived "security".Quote7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
* * * * * * * *
Again - I just want to show the hypocrisy that is dealt out to us.Again with the restrictions on foreign investment. You must really like the Mexican economy. Plus I'm pretty sure their would be constitutional issues. Also, there are existing restrictions on foreign ownership of certain industries deemed to be of "national security interest". Finally, when I lived in Ontario there were a lot of cottages on lakes and rivers that were owned by Americans, so you won't object when Canada goes tit-for-tat and confiscates those properties? Can't help but break a few eggs I guess, and anyway they should have bought in America not Canada. That whole friendly border thing is so overrated.Quote
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * *
) This I tend to somewhat agree with. Land or "american Soil" here should be leased or rented to resident immigrants and non citizens. I also believe that Nations and businesses should not have the right to purchase land, it should be leased to them.
9. Foreigners may have no protests; no demonstrations, no waving of a foreign flag, no political organizing, no bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
* * * * * * * *You really don't like the Constitution, do you?
I believe we do deport illegals when we catch them. As far as "all assets will be taken", maybe you need to get familiar with due process. Do you think the value of the confiscated assets will pay for housing the alleged illegals in this country, feeding them, etc while the confiscation proceedings go through the courts?Quote
That is an extremely ignorant statement. Try posting without getting to emotional and frothy.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted &, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.
* * * * * * * * *
I like our system and laws better. They just need to be enforced more
Quote
Overall, I'd say these "laws" seriously disrespect the Constitution, and are a good roadmap to a third world economy as an insular backwater ignored and shunned by the rest of the world.
Don
Thank you for making my point for me at the end here.
If I understand your correlations correctly, you are saying that if the US enacted these laws as stated above, we would be . . . "ignored and shunned by the rest of the world."
Perhaps you could explain why that would happen to the US, as opposed to the country that actually HAS these laws and enforces them. Why is it not PC to bring this up?
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
The first few can be adequately dealt with by a constitutional amendment making English the official language. I think someone needs to get on that one. It will not come from the feds but if enough states pass it the feds might be forced to.
Big problems here. I am not sure why you think large corps should be allowed to invest but small businesses or individuals should not. Of course other countries can be expected to reciprocate. Bob's Lobster house in Penobscott Maine cannot open a branch in St. Andrew's NB. A new Walmart of course will be welcome.
The land thing will cause a crash as Americans will be forced to sell all their vacation land around the globe. Of course all those foreign corps selling land in the business districts of US cities.
Quote7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
* * * * * * * *
8. If foreigners come here and buy land... options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
* * * * * * * *
Big problems here. I am not sure why you think large corps should be allowed to invest but small businesses or individuals should not. Of course other countries can be expected to reciprocate. Bob's Lobster house in Penobscott Maine cannot open a branch in St. Andrew's NB. A new Walmart of course will be welcome.
The land thing will cause a crash as Americans will be forced to sell all their vacation land around the globe. Of course all those foreign corps selling land in the business districts of US cities.
Andy9o8 0
QuoteWhat do you think of these immigration laws?
I think anything circulating virally in the right-wing blogosphere (which this is) doesn't deserve my attention.
GeorgiaDon 340
I don't get the impression that Mexico is a big draw for international investment. The US still is. Why would you want to screw that up?QuoteIf I understand your correlations correctly, you are saying that if the US enacted these laws as stated above, we would be . . . "ignored and shunned by the rest of the world."
Perhaps you could explain why that would happen to the US, as opposed to the country that actually HAS these laws and enforces them.
It has nothing to do with PC. It has everything to do with being a bunch of stupid ideas.QuoteWhy is it not PC to bring this up?
Why do you care so much about what Mexico does? Sure, their government is hypocritical in criticizing us for doing some things they also do. Who cares, the Mexican government is outrageously incompetent at everything. There is a reason Mexicans want to come here, and Americans aren't sneaking into Mexico. All in all I think we're better off not trying to emulate anything the Mexican government does.
I'm genuinely curious about one of your comments, the one regarding voting in the presidential election. I am quite certain it is illegal for a non-citizen to vote at any level, be it federal, state, or local. You imply that the restriction applies only to the presidential election. Can you offer any specific examples of situations in which it is legal for non-citizens to vote for any level of public office in any jurisdiction in the US?
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
turtlespeed 212
Quote
I'm genuinely curious about one of your comments, the one regarding voting in the presidential election. I am quite certain it is illegal for a non-citizen to vote at any level, be it federal, state, or local. You imply that the restriction applies only to the presidential election. Can you offer any specific examples of situations in which it is legal for non-citizens to vote for any level of public office in any jurisdiction in the US?
Don
You should really do what Mr. Kallend says and "Do your own homework."
There is always this way to find the info
. . . because this is the first hit I got when I did.
QuoteCurrently, noncitizens vote in seven jurisdictions in the United States, and another three towns have passed local laws but await state enabling legislation to implement. More than a dozen other cities are -- or recently have -- considered restoring immigrant voting rights.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Quote1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
* * * * * * * *
Fine, as long as you are willing to accept the loss of competitivenessblah blah blah blah
Didn't say No Other Language Classes-just that schools don't incur the extra expenses associated with ESL programs. Big difference-also didn't see a lot of people supporting these laws-just pointing out the hypocrisy.
You are only as strong as the prey you devour
NWFlyer 2
Quote
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they are here.
How can they be non-residents if they're here for a long long time?
Does this rule also mean US citizens living outside our country's borders can't vote?"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
QuoteHow can they be non-residents if they're here for a long long time?
Anyone who has a valid visa but not a green card is, legally, a non-resident no matter how long they are here. Although some visas have time limits, some do not, or have exceptions which in practice allow some people to stay legally almost indefinitely without getting a green card.
However no one, legal or not, green card or not, is supposed to be voting until they become a citizen. There are, I believe, a few rare exceptions where green card holders can vote in local elections--but never in federal congressional, senatorial, or presidential elections.
US citizens living abroad are supposed to be able to vote.
"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014
NWFlyer 2
QuoteQuoteHow can they be non-residents if they're here for a long long time?
Anyone who has a valid visa but not a green card is, legally, a non-resident no matter how long they are here. Although some visas have time limits, some do not, or have exceptions which in practice allow some people to stay legally almost indefinitely without getting a green card.
However no one, legal or not, green card or not, is supposed to be voting until they become a citizen. There are, I believe, a few rare exceptions where green card holders can vote in local elections--but never in federal congressional, senatorial, or presidential elections.
US citizens living abroad are supposed to be able to vote.
Fair enough; I've learned something new today about that particular legal distinction.
And yes, I know that US Citizens living abroad can vote, I was just trying to figure out if turtle was implying they shouldn't.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
turtlespeed 212
Quote
And yes, I know that US Citizens living abroad can vote, I was just trying to figure out if turtle was implying they shouldn't.
Absolutely NOT.
These are Mexico's immigration laws.
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
which one of these suggested laws are a violation of human rights as weighed against the right of a country to protect its safety, the safety of the legal citizens and its economy?
Shhhhh! Be careful or you'll knock the kool-aide taste clean out of his mouth